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Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

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  • #1

    Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

    The night started off very oddly for me as I was approached upon entering the fieldhouse by Spanish NBA TV asking me if they could interview me. I thought they were going to ask me about the Pacers but the entire line of questions was about Larry Bird. Apparently they are there shooting a special about him.

    Their first question to me was “What does Larry Bird mean to you” and it took every single fiber of my being to not say “he’s the ******* who traded away Danny Granger”, but I held my tongue and answered their question, however I’m not sure they were all that thrilled with my answer about Bird the player as I made it a point to tell them that he was the enemy to me back then and while I always respected the skills I was not a fan of his as a player. The interviewer did chuckle though when I called Bird a filthy Celtic.

    I’ll get to the game in a minute but there was another very unusual fact that I found out tonight that actually shocked me but did go a long way in what I have been telling everyone for about 10 years.

    Tonight was another sell out; in fact it was our 26th sell out of the season. (I will once again take this opportunity to invite all of you out of town and out of country people who spoke poorly about our citizens in the past to go jump in a lake)

    Why is this 26th sell out important you ask and what does it help me prove? The very first season the fieldhouse opened it was sold out every game, however that was a combination of brand new state of the art building and a team that would go on to play in the NBA finals. The very next year the Pacers sold out 25 home games.

    That was the second most sell outs in a season, until tonight. This now officially is the second highest amount of sell outs in the field house history.

    What does this help me prove you might ask, for those of you that were around back then I was telling anyone who would listen to me that the 61 win team was not as popular in Indiana as people online kept thinking it was. I was there I can tell you that the atmosphere in most of those games was nowhere near what we have now. People like winners, no doubt. However here in the Heartland while we like winners we love winners who are also for the most part good people (stay off the damned phone Paul).

    There is zero doubt that this area is once again Pacer crazy and even the recent play did not stop people from coming out on a Wednesday night against a lower tier team to support the blue and gold. So anyone and everyone who has bought a ticket this year give yourself a round of applause.

    Now the game.

    Um, I’m just going to be honest right here and right now. I enjoyed winning but under no circumstance in the world do I think we could have beaten a good team with some of our play tonight.

    There were some really good things that happened, there were some downright funny things that happened and yet there were still issues that made me want to punch an ostrich (Bosh).

    I’m just going to say here what I said on twitter at the time

    The conundrum that the Pacers face is the very thing that got them back in the game may very well be the reason behind team disharmony.

    We were in a malaise and struggling to keep the game close when Lance Stephenson went berserk and just took over. He grabbed several defensive rebounds and directed several successful offensive pushes that not only caught us up but took over the lead. During that time he had an under the leg pass to a cutting Mahinmi which I’m sure gave Bill ulcers when he did it and then after another drive to the rim he danced and shimmied to the delight of the crowd.

    However during this time the ball was in Lances hands and while he made good decisions and quick passes it is the very behavior that I think rubs his team mates the wrong way when things don’t go perfectly. Oh believe me tonight they were all his best friend when he led that attack but sometimes when that doesn’t work out it is what is I’m sure part of the problem.

    However here is the real problem, he is the only player on our team who can take our team when it has its collective head up its *** that can single handily take over a game. Paul on occasion can do it but he is not a good enough ball handler to be able to do what Lance does.

    Also I’m sorry for the old prudes out there, you know who you are, but I think we just have to accept that there is playground in Lance and there is showmanship in Lance and trying to take that away from him takes away a certain spark and edge to his game. Tonight was the first night that I can remember where he broke out the shimmy since around the all-star break. I know it goes against the purist but with Lance I think you just have to take it. Also it is no different than Mark Jackson doing the shimmy or Reggie Miller taunting or my God have you ever seen J.R. Smith hit a three and the crap he does when he hits one or Noah just running down the floor.

    That was the good Lance.

    Now the bad and I hate to break the illusion that the Pacers are putting out there about team unity and harmony but here is the bad Lance. In the second half, in particular the 4th quarter Lance was kind of frozen out of the offense when it became the Paul show. He was not at his best behavior on the bench and had to be babysit by Rasual and David West. This is just exhausting to team mates to have to dedicate this much energy just to keep a guy under control. Now don’t get me wrong on the court he did what he was supposed to do and in fact had a couple of good passes that people missed shots that he set up so overall we had far more good Lance than bad but it was all still there.

    That was the bad Lance.

    I know this is once again an oversimplification but I’ll go ahead and say it. What was the difference between this game and other games that we have struggled in? Oh sure ball movement was great, off the ball movement on occasion even existed and for us that is a miracle. But simply put we made open shots that in other games we have been missing. David West actually started sticking open jumpers and Paul George shot 40% from behind the arc. This opened up passing and driving lanes that George Hill did a great job of taking advantage of.

    Also you got a little something out of your bench with Scola & Mahinmi combining for 19 points and 12 rebounds.

    On the other hand once again Evan Turner was a big steaming heap of cow dung. I am less and less interested in retaining him in the off season every day but I’ll hold out to see how he responds in the playoffs.

    I’m not dismissing this game at all, we needed a win. But honestly let’s not forget that they allowed us to go on a 12-2 run with Charlie Villanueva playing center while both Drummond and Monroe sat on the bench. Tell me that they aren’t in full tank mode.

    Let’s do some grades.

    Paul George: A

    Strong game overall, was beat like a bass drum in the first quarter by Josh Smith but quickly recovered and then proceeded to play one of the more solid overall games that we have seen from him in about a month. I am never happy to see anyone shoot 10 three point shots in a game but if you do then at least he hit 4 of them.

    David West: A-

    Woke up in the second half and broke out of his what seems like year long shooting slump. Hit some big time open jumpers in the 4th that sealed the game away for us, this is one of the things that have been missing for our club lately. Decent defense however Monroe offers him a challenge in that he is as wide as West and while not as strong as David he does know how to use his size to keep West away from the basket.

    Roy Hibbert: A

    Stats won’t back this up but big Roy tonight actually played an excellent game. The one way we ended up defending Josh Smith? We actually had Roy guard him for several stretches and Josh being Josh decided that he would try and challenge Roy at the rim and it didn’t work. Also just by sheer mass and size in the 4th quarter when Monroe was starting to go a little crazy and was pushing Mahinmi from stem to stern they subbed in Roy and that nonsense stopped immediately. Once again took another hit and kept on coming back for more. I hate his rebounding but damned if the guy won’t take a hit.

    Lance Stephenson: A

    Stick of dynamite that just blew up all over the Pistons. He has gotten into a perplexing habit of standing right directly in front of Donnie Walsh when he is out of the games at time and I have no idea why? I wonder if Seth or Trader Joe has any thoughts on that as they have a better view of that than I do.

    George Hill: A

    Great job of containing Jennings for most of the night, he hit some transition threes in the 4th or George would be credited with totally shutting him down. As it was he did a great job of containing him. However what I was far more pleased with were his purposeful cuts to the basket and the several times where he drove the middle and dished out, sadly he was robbed of about 3 assists as players missed shots that he gave them. We just have to convince him every single night to be aggressive on the offensive end of the floor.

    Ian Mahinmi: A

    Damn near perfect game from Ian. He is the same height as Monroe & Drummond but he is nowhere near their size so the fact that he was as successful as he was at battling them in the paint is a testament to the toughness that he was playing with tonight. He guarded the rim almost as well as Roy did and in fact he actually blocked more shots than Roy. If we got this type of game every night from Ian we would never wonder about our backup 5.

    Luis Scola: A-

    I know that some people are going to complain that this is to high for him but even though he couldn’t hit that elbow jumper we so desperately need him to hit he worked harder than I’ve seen him work in awhile. He was battling on the boards and while he was totally overmatched by Monroe he tried over and over to body him up and eventually I think he did finally wear Greg down a little. I want that jump shot back but in lieu of that I will be satisfied with this performance.

    Evan Turner: D

    Just useless. I don’t want to dislike him and in fact thought that originally it was a good trade. That train has now left the building and is speeding on down the tracks. Locker room issues probably, but he is making me miss Grangers on court production which was not all that great. His defense can best be described as Mike Dunleavy like if Mike had a limp and didn’t care. I think Evan tries on defense but has just zero defensive instincts. Again I’m hoping for the playoffs he can pick it up.

    Rasual Butler: B

    He did one thing that will never show up on any stat but on one of the few fast breaks that we had he was with George Hill and slid over and filled the passing lane to a T causing the defender to commit and foul George. That is just old school veteran know how right there. All he ever does is hit shots so why we don’t use him more or go to him more when he is in is beyond me.

    Donald Sloan: D

    When is C.J. coming back? Ever?

    This was a nice decent win and I’ll walk away with a win any day. However it will mean absolutely nothing if we just go to Toronto on Friday and lay an egg.

    Let's rock!



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

    First!

    I thought just our body language tonight was much better. There will be good shooting nights and bad shooting nights, but early in the season we always had good body language and good timing/chemistry.

    If the chemistry comes back it will be in steps, and tonight was a positive step.

    And we TECHNICALLY still control our own destiny for the number 1 seed if we win out. I think the odds of that happening are pretty slim but there is still time to turn the ship around.

    Finally as mentioned by Peck, when is CJ Watson coming back? I haven't heard anything in a while, he is really sorely missed on the bench though we haven't talked about it much.
    Last edited by rabid; 04-03-2014, 03:06 AM.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

      It's funny you brought up the fan support from the '03-'04 season because I was recently thinking the same thing. I remember during the playoffs of the 61 win season, we had trouble selling tickets during the second round against the Heat. On top of that, during the ECF our ticket sales office was aided by all the Pistons fans who showed up in groves. I really think the fan support has grown leaps and bounds even over last season. I'll never forget George Hill's rant after the Lakers game. I even remember Vogel addressing the attendance in a post game interview and urging people to show up. This season has been completely different. Tonight you could tell the fans were nervous, anxious, but still supportive. I think the fans will be amazing during the playoffs.


      Last May was so special to me. I think my favorite thing was the TNT set in the main entrance. The atmosphere was amazing, It reminded me of ESPN 's College Game day. That's how I was people nationally to see us. I just hope we come out of this funk and play to our potential so I can experience that again. We may never have a team this good (or like-able) in my lifetime and I want to soak it up for all it's worth.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

        If Lance really is the issue in the locker room then the Pacers brass are going to have some tough decisions to make this off-season. Can Lance mature to the point of being a good teammate? Can the rest of the guys learn to live with bad Lance? Can Turner be more effective with the starters, and can the coaching staff teach him how to play defense at least at Stephenson's level? It's hard to know the answers to any of those questions, but they're some of the questions that are going to have to be asked.

        Glad to see our guys held them to a terrible FG%. Perhaps our defense is coming around finally. I as well would love if anyone has any insight as to why Lance hangs out near Bird and Walsh when he's on the bench.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

          Originally posted by Believe_in_blue View Post
          It's funny you brought up the fan support from the '03-'04 season because I was recently thinking the same thing. I remember during the playoffs of the 61 win season, we had trouble selling tickets during the second round against the Heat. On top of that, during the ECF our ticket sales office was aided by all the Pistons fans who showed up in groves. I really think the fan support has grown leaps and bounds even over last season. I'll never forget George Hill's rant after the Lakers game. I even remember Vogel addressing the attendance in a post game interview and urging people to show up. This season has been completely different. Tonight you could tell the fans were nervous, anxious, but still supportive. I think the fans will be amazing during the playoffs.


          Last May was so special to me. I think my favorite thing was the TNT set in the main entrance. The atmosphere was amazing, It reminded me of ESPN 's College Game day. That's how I was people nationally to see us. I just hope we come out of this funk and play to our potential so I can experience that again. We may never have a team this good (or like-able) in my lifetime and I want to soak it up for all it's worth.
          That Heat series in '04 is probably the most forgettable Pacers playoff series for me ever. I always forget there was a series in between the Celtics and the Pistons.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

            So we're bringing back El Peckbo?
            You Got The Tony!!!!!!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

              Yeah - there are a few things to feel better about, BUT ........... I am just so freakin tired of the way we close out quarters. PG gets the ball. Slowly dribbles up court, between the legs a few times (we get it - you worked on that in the off-season. BFD.), takes a step-back 3. When is the last time he actually hit one of those ?? It's just giving a possession away. There's an offense. F'in run it. Worthless, useless play.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                I will take it, but my grim outlook regarding the team hasn't changed much.

                Things looked better, but we were playing a team with a big incentive to lose. Do this Friday in Toronto and that will show me something.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                  For the most part the difference between this Lance and the previous Lance is that even when taking over he still seems to be looking for other guys. He had a few moments right together, but then got the ball to other guys on the court.

                  I wish I had a recording of the game because the Bad Lance moment that describes his worst tendencies on the court to me was when he leapt over someone's back (I think it was Ian) to grab a defensive rebound and ended up throwing the ball out of bounds. There was no Piston player on that end of the court, there was no reason whatsoever to be that aggressive, and it backfired. That's why "stealing" rebounds isn't necessarily a "ha ha how funny" thing.

                  I can't see the bench well from my end, but from my point of view in the second half when the offense was in front of me I saw two things - one was that they were feeding PG as the hot hand to keep his shot going. The other that Lance was demonstrative on occasion when he didn't get fed the ball himself.

                  I think Lance is convinced he should be the #1 option but the team is not supposed to be working that way (Roy and PG for the inside-out is what I think is preferred). Whether he's being "frozen out" or the team is just playing by the game plan is the question - and, if Lance's strength is providing activity during chaos, do they go away from him when the offense is flowing well so as not to bring chaos to stability?
                  BillS

                  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                  Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                    I also disagree about the first quarter having nothing good to say. I thought the ball movement and positioning was there. Guys were getting open shots with good timing. They just missed them. It would have been very frustrating on all levels had that continued.

                    And Charlie Villanueva should have a little appointment with David West in a dark alley sometime really soon. I really don't get how the ju-jitsu move of pulling Roy over his hip wasn't an F2.
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                      Peck: "In the second half, in particular the 4th quarter Lance was kind of frozen out of the offense when it became the Paul show. He was not at his best behavior on the bench and had to be babysit by Rasual and David West."
                      I certainly noticed him being frozen out. Wouldn't that bother you after you had made a concerted effort to get the ball to PG during that run that broke the game open? It would me.

                      So ... the root of the problem isn't really Lance being a issue on the bench that teammates have to deal with, it's PG and perhaps a couple others being @ssholes.
                      "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                        I thought Lance's 5 minute outburst showed why he would be such an effective 6th man. Against DET second team he had an impressive dunk, and had a few passes that led to points, and really got the team going. He was pretty quiet the rest of the game, and was a tad demonstrative about it--but the energy he brought in the second quarter definitely breathed some life into the game.

                        Lance has been at his best all year when he's been doing his thing with the second unit. He's able to control the offense against second teamers, and run pick and pops with Scola. It's not something that's sustainable throughout the game, but I feel it's the best way to try and catch lightening in a bottle for 4-6 minutes each half. He's not going to get those same opportunities/looks with the starters and against other teams' starters, so "free Lance" (copyrighted by MckeyFan) against the bench unit.

                        As for the rest of the game, I'm glad we won but I'd like to see us play Pacer Basketball consistently for 3-4 games before I believe the "curse" is over.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                          Well, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and we had to take care of the Pistons last night before we could move on to bigger and better things. And we have to remember that even we were at the height of our powers in December, the Pistons were able to come in here and beat us. They seem to give us a match-up problem no matter what.

                          It got to a point where we needed a player to just say "f it, enough of this crap" and put the team on their backs. This is what Lance did in the second quarter. Those takes where just spectacular and he had some Magic Stephenson passes to a PG who was actually hitting his jumpers. I better go finish my Christmas shopping later because I think we've been transported in a time machine back to December. When Lance is doing beautiful passes to a PG who is nailing threes.....that's just some beautiful stuff. This is why I'm such a big Lance fan. I recognize that he has his faults and can rub his teammates the wrong way - that's pretty undeniable at this point. But he's just a fearless cat out there and his energy last night caused a domino affect which really turned things around. Dr. Hibbert mentioned in the post game thread that the Pacers are most dangerous when they turn a defensive stop into quick offense (usually with Lance and PG leading something) and he's right.

                          THAT is the PG that was getting MVP accolades. He can take all of the jumpers he wants if he keeps hitting them like that. When he's on, he's on. Some beautiful swishes last night.

                          Agree with Peck, the box score doesn't do Hibbs justice. Impressive to come back from that nasty fall and he played some good defense all night long. He still should have come up with more rebounds though, particularly on the defensive end.

                          I'll roll with this team any day of the week if David West is hitting his shots like he did in the second half.

                          Ian has given solid effort all season and last night was one of his best outings. Fought for some buckets, played solid d, and really scrapped for some rebounds. Scola was also scrappy off the bench. Got ran over on defense a couple of times early on, but really started scrapping as the game went on.

                          Turner has been awful. I was definitely wrong on that one so far. I wouldn't do that trade again since Danny was a better player for us and we wouldn't have the chemistry questions. To the few who said that trade wouldn't be as great as most were saying (Eleazer, Pacerized, TMJ, etc), credit to you for calling it right. HOWEVER, I do want to see if Turner can improve at all when CJ improves. We have to remember that most of his games have been without CJ, who is one of the best backup point guards in the league. Of course, CJ isn't going to be able to fix ET's defensive issues, but ET would at least have some value if he could start scoring. He has about zero value right now.

                          What's the latest on Bynum? I worry that the next time we see him will be in one of those IU Health "The Strength It Takes" physical rehab commercials.
                          Last edited by Sollozzo; 04-03-2014, 09:06 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                            Scola was discernably more vocal and engaged. Showed really aggressive leadership with the 2nd group. This is exactly what we need from him. He's a Vet, guys will listen to him.

                            GHill defense was excellent both on the ball and off. Really impacted Jennings who hit some tough shots and got his hands in alot of passing lanes. He was sneaky too in helping dig in the post defensively while not leaving his man until it didn't hurt anything.

                            Evan Turner, smh. He was killing them on team defense in that he can't cover the weak side lane and recover to his man. He's really just the wrong side of an AND1 video waiting to happen. Bad position, bad acknowledgement, bad agility. Just Bad.

                            By the way, he actually pulled Kyle Singlars leg up to basically rack himself... one of the oddest plays I've ever seen. I thought Singlar kicked him at first, but nope ET did it to himself.

                            Lastly, thanks 24 second shot clock guy on the slow reset, we'll mark you for an assist on the near half court 3 by PG, but don't do it again, please.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Misfiring Pistons

                              I thought Lance was pretty good last night.....up until the 3min mark of the 4th qtr when he threw that god-awful pass to Roy and Drummond picked it off. Lance then proceeded to play matador defense when Jennings got the outlet pass and flew by him, and while Jennings was hitting that 3, Lance was barely making an effort to get back and was shaking his head in disgust. He then simply pouted for the rest of the game. That's the biggest thing that irks me with Lance. You made a bad pass, just freaking play. People want to talk about Roy pointing fingers in the press, but I've yet to see him completely give up on a play because he screwed up and was too busy blaming someone else.

                              It was right after PG pounded the ball up top, which Quinn said he thought it was a play called by Frank, but it was still horrible. It just bummed me out to see 45mins of pretty good body language from the entire team, only for it that to happen down the stretch in a game that really shouldn't have been close.


                              Anyways, they at least looked like they were awake this game. Lance looked good through that 2nd qtr stretch. The difference is that he made quick decisions. All of them were making quick decisions last night, which is a great step forward IMHO. They played with a some purpose last night. Clean up that first 6mins of the game, and Lance keep your head out of your ***, and they'll be fine.

                              And from here on out, Evan will be known by me as FastHands. His defensive foot speed is terrible on the wings, and I think it's because he's too busy throwing his arms around like a fool and he gets himself off balance. Dude, keep your arms still.
                              Last edited by Since86; 04-03-2014, 09:29 AM.
                              “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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