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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

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  • #1

    Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...r-and-the-nets

    By now, the tale of Shaun Livingston's NBA journey has been told and retold many times.

    He was a can't miss, lanky point guard prospect out of Peoria, Illinois, who had his career severely derailed during his third season in the NBA. The injury is infamous and gruesome enough to not feel the need to make your stomach churn with it one more time because that's not the point of highlighting his game anymore.

    He worked his way back over the next six seasons, proving to himself first that he could come back to the NBA and to NBA teams second that he wasn't a ticking time bomb waiting to find his way to the injured list again. He had a great 49-game stretch for the Cleveland Cavaliers last season, but it was a lot of meaningless basketball being played. When he joined the Brooklyn Nets for the 2013-14 season, he was going to be the primary backup to Deron Williams.

    Due to injuries suffered by Brook Lopez and Andrei Kirilenko among others, the Nets had to reshuffle their philosophies on what they expected to do heading into this season. That meant going with smaller lineups and readjusting what was supposed to be a stacked, All-Star studded level team into a crafty, veteran squad of versatility. The Swiss Army knife, who has ended up being the key to the Nets' ability to do this and go from the cellar to a possible home court advantage in the first round, was Livingston.

    Livingston's insertion into the starting lineup 40 games ago has given the Nets a versatile 6'7" point guard as the third ball handler in the lineup when a lot of teams are lucky if they have two. Using his great control of the ball, his smart decision-making, and his length, Livingston has been the perfect complement to a group of veterans buoyed by an unselfish do-it-all.

    Let's take a look at a couple of areas in which the ninth year guard really helps the Nets.

    Post-up

    If you were debating with friends about who the most efficient post-up player in the NBA is, it would probably take you a really long time to get to Livingston as a possibility. And yet, he's ranked number one on Synergy Sports in points per possession on post-ups. There are two reasons he's such a good post-up guard.

    First, we're talking about a 6'7" point guard with a 6'11" wingspan. He's going to have the advantage in the post over pretty much every guard and a lot of small forwards, even though he's built like Olive Oil. He's so good at utilizing his length to get jumpers in the post and he's been the best at hitting those jumpers this season.



    A perfect example is how he turns away from the possibility of help defense against the Cavaliers here and hits the baseline jumper over Matthew Dellavedova. He knows he won't be bothered on the attempt and can calmly find his release point and let muscle memory take over.



    His footwork and balance are really exceptional for a guard on the low block. Even in this play in which his foot slips out from under him briefly, Livingston is capable of instantly regaining his balance and then using his length and patience on the low block to wait for the right moment to release the shot inside against a helping Anthony Davis.

    Pick-and-Roll

    That patience you see with Livingston in the post permeates to other areas of the floor as well. His work in the pick-and-roll from both a scoring and a passing standpoint has been excellent with a team full of spot-up shooters. In an excellent post on The Brooklyn Game, you can hear Livingston narrate some plays of his, including a pick-and-roll decision-making process. He talks about "deciphering where the help is going to be" when picking apart a defense.



    As you can see on this play, the Nets run a pick-and-roll with Andray Blatche and Livingston, relying on their guard to know when exactly to deliver the pass. They get an And-1 out of the set, thanks to Livingston waiting for proper delivery and Blatche finishing against a much smaller player.



    As Livingston draws his defender coming over the screen and the defender of the screener, he moves off to the side to allow Blatche plenty of room to roll to the hoop. Norris Cole has to help off of the weak side shooter and Chris Bosh can't drop off of Mirza Teletovic too much here.



    Instead of firing the pass as Blatche is diving to the hoop, Livingston waits for his teammate to park in front of the hoop and a much smaller defender with any help defense still having to mind the strong side shooter and Teletovic at the top. You're left with Blatche possessing about a 10-inch and 70 lbs. advantage on Cole right in front of the hoop.



    Livingston is great at using his length to his advantage with his patience as well. In this pick-and-roll against the Pacers, he is able to navigate the length of the Pacers' defenders and draw them away from his intended passing target, Kevin Garnett. You typically wouldn't tell players to use the jump-pass but Livingston creates the necessary space to couple with his length to toss the pass without peril.



    The key to this play is using the entire floor and not being flustered by the help defense coming. He wants the defenders to follow him all the way to the baseline and attempt to set a trap, so he can give Garnett plenty of room to get the jumper off.



    The nice thing about knowing you have such a patient passer is it keeps the defense guessing on how he'll attack. When you can get them to hesitate, you allow room for a quick explosion to the basket. Livingston still has a good first step and his wingspan helps eat up space on the floor like Pac-Man going after those kernels of corn.

    Defensive versatility

    Defense is really where you see Livingston put his length to good use. Because the Nets have primarily gone small since January 1, they've needed their wing defenders to help down, take away sides of the floor with their length, and cover a lot of ground to force turnovers. Since January 1, the Nets are 3.4 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Livingston on the floor.

    At times, Livingston acts as both a free safety and a blitzing linebacker on defense. He'll play the middle of the floor to take away zones of the offense and then fly in to the post player to poke the ball away and force a turnover. While some players use it as a bailout once they're beat by an offensive player, Livingston uses the poke away from behind as one of his deadly defensive tactics.

    You can see in the following video just how clever Livingston is as a defender.



    He seems to stalk the ball handler as his prey, just waiting to pounce and create a turnover. He'll flash to the hip of the offensive player and use those freakishly long arms to knock the ball away. And you can switch most screens with him because he has the length to at least battle power forwards on random possessions, where he uses his savvy and quickness to be a pest instead of getting sucked into a battle of bulk he doesn't possess.



    He's also fantastic at challenging shots on the perimeter because of his height and wingspan. You really have to get the ball high on your release point to make sure to clear his hand, or risk having it sent off its course.

    The reason Livingston has been able to revive, not only his career, but help revive the Nets' season after gloom and doom seemed to set in is he can always find ways to contribute. Whether he's attacking in transition, creating mismatches in the post on a shorter guard, picking apart defenses with his passing, or being a disruptive defender capable of changing the game on any play, his activity and versatility give the Nets so many options in their lineups.

    Put him anywhere and he'll find production. Coach Jason Kidd has put him all over the floor this year and it's helped put the Nets back in the playoffs.

    I think he could give us a nice option, do more than Evan Turner and come at a much less price . He has great length and wingspan and has a nice post up game
    Sittin on top of the world!
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  • #2
    Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

    Livingston is a nice player.

    Unfortunately, on offense, Indiana is apparently the place players come to have their offense die.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    • #3
      Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

      Originally posted by Psyren View Post
      Livingston is a nice player.

      Unfortunately, on offense, Indiana is apparently the place players come to have their offense die.
      Exactly. Until the system changes, nothing will change with player/bench productivity.

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      • #4
        Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

        Lol wasn't it a year or two ago where Livingston was suggested and 3/4 of Pacers Digest was positive he was done as a player?

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

          Originally posted by Psyren View Post
          Livingston is a nice player.

          Unfortunately, on offense, Indiana is apparently the place players come to have their offense die.
          Exactly. Until the system changes, nothing will change with player/bench productivity.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

            New coach or not I'd say no to Livingston. He has no long range shot. We need players with long range shots to push leads and blow out teams. Also we have to think long term, we don't want our Pacers getting to the Finals just to get stomped by SA, OKC, Houston, or whomever. We need to build a hybrid team, where we can defend just like this season, but also can score in the high 90's+ if necessary.

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            • #7
              Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

              I just like his ability to play multiple positions and give us an additional ball handler
              Sittin on top of the world!

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              • #8
                Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                I'm a big fan of Livingston. He maybe the best backup PG in the league. He's been fantastic for Brooklyn all season. I'd love to have him here next season, don't think we can afford him though.
                "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"

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                • #9
                  Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                  Originally posted by Grimp View Post
                  New coach or not I'd say no to Livingston. He has no long range shot. We need players with long range shots to push leads and blow out teams. Also we have to think long term, we don't want our Pacers getting to the Finals just to get stomped by SA, OKC, Houston, or whomever. We need to build a hybrid team, where we can defend just like this season, but also can score in the high 90's+ if necessary.
                  Originally posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
                  I just like his ability to play multiple positions and give us an additional ball handler
                  I have always liked Livingston and am really happy he has seemingly recovered from that knee injury. But I don't think he is is guy that the Pacers need to add. JMO, but the Pacers need 3&D type guys. Guys that can defend their position, and are elite 3 point shooters. Now if the Pacers lose out on Lance and Evan, then Livingston would be a good choice to replace them. But it seems to me the Pacers current problem is lack of 3 point shooters.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                    Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
                    I have always liked Livingston and am really happy he has seemingly recovered from that knee injury. But I don't think he is is guy that the Pacers need to add. JMO, but the Pacers need 3&D type guys. Guys that can defend their position, and are elite 3 point shooters. Now if the Pacers lose out on Lance and Evan, then Livingston would be a good choice to replace them. But it seems to me the Pacers current problem is lack of 3 point shooters.
                    Hopefully Solo can become that player, although I think he can be more than a 3&D player. Who knows, maybe we can get Granger back next season. :P Seriously though, I wouldn't mind Livingston, but I agree. I'm not sure his skill set is what we need. In my opinion, a lot of people on this board focus too much on trying to find ball handlers. Ball handlers are great, but they tend to not play well together, especially when none can really shoot from beyond 10 feet.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                      Like it or not.....we already have a backup PG that is on contract next season.....CJ.

                      My guess is that if Lance AND Turner are gone next season....Bird will be spending the most that he can to find a new Starter. This means that I can see most of the Salary Cap $$$ going to whoever Bird targets.....basically someone that would earn Starting $$$.

                      Also...if we need to fill out the Wing rotation....it will be on the cheap. My guess is that Solo will be getting some consistent burn filling in as the 8th or 9th Player in the rotation.

                      If the Pacers were to let Scola, Lance, Turner and Sloan go.....the Pacers would have 8 Players on the books owed roughly $63 mil. The Salary Cap is $62.1 mil.......which means that AT MOST, the Pacers can only sign a Non-Pacers Free Agent to the Full MLE. In this scenario.....I'm not inclined to spend any part of the Full MLE on Livingston. We need to get a Starter for that $$$$.

                      TANGENT - The rest of the roster would likely be filled up with re-signing whatever Pacers Free Agents that we can sign while going over the Salary Cap but before hitting the LT. Outside of Lance and Turner....which of the remaining Pacers Free Agents ( Bynum, Butler, Sloan or LaVoy ) would you be interested in re-signing ( assuming that they could be re-signed at a reasonable price )?
                      Last edited by CableKC; 04-04-2014, 08:16 PM.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                        The Pacers could put prime Michael Jordan on the bench and he would average 3 points and 4 turnovers a game.

                        Our bench is made to suck.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                          Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
                          The Pacers could put prime Michael Jordan on the bench and he would average 3 points and 4 turnovers a game.

                          Our bench is made to suck.
                          He would also forget to play defense, instead he would Air Matador...

                          Seriously, The Pacer bench is where you want to be if you want to have a break out season NEXT year...
                          Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                            Livingston always gives the Heat a lot of trouble, so I'd be fine with signing him solely because of that.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Shaun Livingston would be a great pick up next year

                              Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
                              Hopefully Solo can become that player, although I think he can be more than a 3&D player. Who knows, maybe we can get Granger back next season. :P Seriously though, I wouldn't mind Livingston, but I agree. I'm not sure his skill set is what we need. In my opinion, a lot of people on this board focus too much on trying to find ball handlers. Ball handlers are great, but they tend to not play well together, especially when none can really shoot from beyond 10 feet.
                              This is exactly our issue now. Too many people wanting to handle the rock. Our offense was at its best two years ago when nobody really handled the ball for long stretches. PG was used as a slasher, spot up 3pt shooter (3/D guy) DC or Hill ran pick&pops with West, and we used DG off screens and post ups. Danny and West were the only guys we would ISO really.

                              Now almost everything we run ends up in an ISO

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