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Thread: Ok, it's officially time to panic

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I think the Spurs are going to beat us. Bad. And maybe that's what needs to happen; having our asses handed to us at home where the fans can vent on the team.
    as much as it pains me to say it I wholeheartedly agree here. just wasn't willing to post because I know the backlash. losing to the spurs might give this team a wake up call. including vogel that things are not good.

    its about the only way Vogel is going to make a significant change with this roster. He has to begin approaching this like his job is on the line. No more Mr. Nice guy Coach Vogel. you may have to hurt some feelings to get done what needs to happen.

    we cant just keep rolling along like everything is fine and just let fate take its course. a change has to be made.

    I believe Evan Turner is the best player on this team at getting other players open looks. right now that is what our starting lineup is missing. for all lances abilities his IQ is abysmal. I believe Turner could thrive with our starting lineup.

    Also believe Lance would be best served running the bench from this point forward. I don't think either unit (starting or bench) can play any worse right now.


    its a hail mary approach but I don't think we got anything to lose right now. the #1 seed is gone. we just lost back to back games to Washington and Cleveland and it was 96 minutes of pathetic basketball... exclude the heat game and its going on 3 months of bad basketball.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    as much as it pains me to say it I wholeheartedly agree here. just wasn't willing to post because I know the backlash. losing to the spurs might give this team a wake up call. including vogel that things are not good.

    its about the only way Vogel is going to make a significant change with this roster. He has to begin approaching this like his job is on the line. No more Mr. Nice guy Coach Vogel. you may have to hurt some feelings to get done what needs to happen.

    we cant just keep rolling along like everything is fine and just let fate take its course. a change has to be made.

    I believe Evan Turner is the best player on this team at getting other players open looks. right now that is what our starting lineup is missing. for all lances abilities his IQ is abysmal. I believe Turner could thrive with our starting lineup.

    Also believe Lance would be best served running the bench from this point forward. I don't think either unit (starting or bench) can play any worse right now.


    its a hail mary approach but I don't think we got anything to lose right now. the #1 seed is gone. we just lost back to back games to Washington and Cleveland and it was 96 minutes of pathetic basketball... exclude the heat game and its going on 3 months of bad basketball.
    I do think Vogel has to bite the Bullet and send Lance to the bench. PG and Lance are too much alike in stye. Both have made the case that they need the ball in their hands. The only way to do this is to have Lance lead the bench. I'm not sure Turner is the answer though. They need a 3pt shooter in the starting line up. Somebody that will swing the ball instead of stopping it.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Losing to the Spurs won't give us a wake up call... If we needed a wake up call, then it better of happened against Cleveland
    Welcome back George Hill!

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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    If this team fizzles out in the playoffs (i.e. either swept by Miami or beaten in the first or second round) I agree that Vogel is probably gone. There are some talented vet coaches out there to be had that would be chomping at the bit to mold this team.

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  7. #30
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    We were also 20-5 before Granger came back. Additionally, we went to Game 7 of the ECF's last year without Granger.

    Waaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis is being put on Granger. It's not as if Granger had been a vital part of the team recently. This team learned how to thrive without Granger a long time ago. It continued to thrive when he came back because the starting lineup continued to play great. But in recent weeks, the starters began to play like crap. That has nothing to do with Granger. Sure, I'll buy that guys were sad to see him go, but PG isn't shooting like garbage from the field and taking bad shots because his head is so clouded by losing Granger. A starting unit that used to be awesome is no longer playing great. The Granger thing is just clouding the real issues.
    NO the point is the trade should have never been made. They have taken a 3pt threat away from the offense and replaced him another guy that needs the ball in his hands. It doesn't work from an X's an O's stand point. This is the main reason for the team's stuggles. They no longer spread the floor, dump it inside, and swing it for open looks. Granted Granger wasn't hitting the shot very well, but NOW nobody is. You can survive one guy not shooting well for the season. But teams still had to honor Granger's shot when he was on the floor. In th 2nd unit we had Lance facilitating, Granger camped out on the 3pt line and Scola setting the Pick and Pop. It actually worked okay, because Lance was able make up for any offensive deficiencies from Scola or Granger. The problem happened when Lance decided that he had the green light and didn't even need to try and pass it to Scola or Granger. Thats when the team really started to struggle.

    The only way this is fixed is to run a 2nd unit of Lance, Watson, Copeland, Scola, Mahinmi. They also need to play Lance less with the Starters and give those 1st unit minutes to Butler or Solo Hill. They have to have a guy in the starting line up who can play D and hit the spot up 3, and keep the ball swinging when he doesn't have a shot.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  8. #31
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I do think Vogel has to bite the Bullet and send Lance to the bench. PG and Lance are too much alike in stye. Both have made the case that they need the ball in their hands. The only way to do this is to have Lance lead the bench. I'm not sure Turner is the answer though. They need a 3pt shooter in the starting line up. Somebody that will swing the ball instead of stopping it.
    in a sense its like Grimp mentioned... I was ready to post a Coach Vogel thread myself yesterday but had nothing to with his ballsack. I just think Vogel is getting a pass from the fanbase. the heat has to be turned up on Vogel for him to stop giving his team a pass as well. Bird eluded to the accountability of players, Vogel has to hold them resposnsible.

    its a complete cluster**** right now. the reggie teams had leadership and you just had the sense not to read into the regular season all that much.. this team im not sure they have the same kinda experience to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    its time to let GHILL get back to his leadership abilities,, and I believe lance is a deterring that from happening. again I agree with grimp get turner in the starting lineup but not for Hill, it should be lance.

    also down for allen getting minutes over mahinmi. he can finish on those tough entry passes lance makes.

    im completely fine with letting lance be the man off the bench.

  9. #32
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    As alluded to before......we were all given a huge chunk of Iron Sulfide and told that this Team was a contender. Maybe ( as some has suggested ) this Team simply wasn't that good in the first iplace. They maybe "good"....just not "great". Unfortunately, in order to win it all....you have to be better than "good'....you have to be "great".

    This Team has been doing so poorly lately, I simply don't want to watch them. I'm not going to devote 2.5 hours watching a Team that is playing like this.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  11. #33
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Losing to the Spurs won't give us a wake up call... If we needed a wake up call, then it better of happened against Cleveland
    No, you are wrong....if there ever was a wake up call that should have been sounded....it should have happened a LONG LONG TIME AGO....about 2 months ago.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    As alluded to before......we were all given a huge chunk of Iron Sulfide and told that this Team was a contender. Maybe ( as some has suggested ) this Team simply wasn't that good in the first iplace. They maybe "good"....just not "great". Unfortunately, in order to win it all....you have to be better than "good'....you have to be "great".

    This Team has been doing so poorly lately, I simply don't want to watch them. I'm not going to devote 2.5 hours watching a Team that is playing like this.
    This has been my mindset from last season. In my mind they never have been a "true" championship contender. I know I'm one of the few on this board that thinks that. I thought they got on a bit of a roll in the playoffs last year and played a bit over their actual abilities. Without MAJOR bench improvement(which didn't happen), my expectations have always been that they would regress a little this year and probably not even make the ECF. Doesn't mean I don't root for them, but I hate that it's looking like I might be right.

  14. #35

    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    if someone getting traded affects a team's shot at championship (which comes way too rarely) this much, we are dealing with children on this team. can't find another way to put it. they are mentally at the same level as children.
    This. What happened to the Bulls this very season after their 10-year veteran Luol Deng got traded? Perhaps they were rattled temporarily, but even so, they pretty quickly got themselves together and started competing their asses off. Granted, they have an amazing workhorse and leader in Noah, but this is a team that has less overall talent than the Pacers. A team with championship aspirations like the Pacers simply has no excuse to be playing like this.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    As high on this team as I was after the Miami game this has got to be lower than the way I've felt after the blowout loss against Charlotte. The thing that this season has taught me is you can have all the talent in the world and still not be a talented team. This particular team may have the individual talent capable of hiding some of the flaws on any given night against some of the other teams, but it's not a talented team. Everything we've supposedly busted our *** for earlier in this season is slipping away and nobody seems to care. I think someone towards the end of last season had a thread titled "someone talk me off the ledge" or something along those lines, we may need to revisit that. I don't know if there is a big enough homer in the world that can put any sort of positive spin on this team as of late. I am ready to start handing out the complete works of Nietzsche to random goers by that is how much faith I've lost in this team and my overall attitude.

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  18. #37
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    When the Pacers first starting slumping before the All-Star break, I attributed it mostly to fatigue. Then, when they continued to do so after the break, it was because we were adapting to the new acquisitions Bynum, Turner, and Allen. Then, I speculated that maybe the team was bored with the regular season, and expected the Miami game to wake us up. And though we won that game, the Pacers and Heat have gone in polar opposite directions since.

    I'm officially worried.

    All season the media has been talking about the Pacers' historically elite defense. However, the Pacers are now playing historically bad offense. Offense so bad that, even though the defense is largely still there, we're losing to teams like 29-45 Cleveland by 14 points.

    Today's loss has likely cost us the #1 seed and, deep down, I think we all know that we have very little chance of beating Miami without home court advantage. Assuming, of course, that we can even get that far.

    Larry did everything he could to put together a title contender this year, and everyone else is squandering this very rare opportunity. With the salary cap concerns, we will likely never have a more talented team with this core than we have right now.

    This is absolutely heartbreaking to watch.
    Shade,
    Not even the reverse jinx is working... This is bad...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  20. #38
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    If this team fizzles out in the playoffs (i.e. either swept by Miami or beaten in the first or second round) I agree that Vogel is probably gone. There are some talented vet coaches out there to be had that would be chomping at the bit to mold this team.
    One or more of the players are the issue. This has the feel of the Ron Artest & Jermaine O'Neal back room wars. There is a fly in the ointment.

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  22. #39

    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Just face it.

    We are not good enough. Lance has fallen back to Earth. George Hill is stealing 8 million dollars per year for dribbling the ball down the court and camping at the 3 point line.

    Paul George and Hibbert (our "max" players) are so inefficient offensively, it is embarassing. West is getting older.

    This team is done.

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  24. #40

    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    The problem is the lack of aggression from Hill and Hibbert. When Hill is offensively aggressive the offense flows. Hibbert only shows up against Miami which isn't good enough and may be the real reason they signed Bynum. I agree that it is time for lineup changes and Turner should replace Lance for bench scoring. Turner should run point and Hill can play the 2 guard on offense. At this point everything should be an option because this is not a NBA team on offense.

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  26. #41
    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    You can tell nobody is on the same page except for maybe Hill and West. Our ball handlers tend to try and throw it into the post and if they can't then it looks like they are lost after that. They'll dribble around and either shoot a contested jumper or make a pass to one of our bigs when the shot-clock is at about 4 seconds or less which is not good at all. When David West is missing shots then we are in deep trouble and that happens to be the case. Nobody can hit anything consistently...

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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Wish Larry would do what Pat Riley did back in 2006. Fire the coach and step in to coach this team to the title. Pacers werent playing very well before the Granger trade. If not for a 4 point play, they would have lost to a pathetic, depleted Sacramento team.

  28. #43
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by eldubious View Post
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    The problem is the lack of aggression from Hill and Hibbert. When Hill is offensively aggressive the offense flows. Hibbert only shows up against Miami which isn't good enough and may be the real reason they signed Bynum. I agree that it is time for lineup changes and Turner should replace Lance for bench scoring. Turner should run point and Hill can play the 2 guard on offense. At this point everything should be an option because this is not a NBA team on offense.

    we need to go back to whatever it was that made us successful last season. at that time lance was essentially an afterthought in the offense. I believe the shift to lance as the primary initiator has potentially affected Hills game, why I have no idea but GHILL has been just awful.

    I don't remember this offense ever looking this bad in the tenure of Vogels coaching career. last season we were pretty good offensively with our big 4 and lance as the 5th option.

    there can be a host of various reasons this team is not clicking but one thing is evident both units starting and bench are bad. I know many believe lance brings it on a consistent basis I just think some of that energy is purely contract oriented. he means well but he plays in vain.

    im just reading in between all the fine details but if some of the reports are true of lance and the chemistry ie immaturity issues are even vaguely accurate its time to shake things up a lil bit.

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  30. #44
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by sam kaiserblade View Post
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    Wish Larry would do what Pat Riley did back in 2006. Fire the coach and step in to coach this team to the title. Pacers werent playing very well before the Granger trade. If not for a 4 point play, they would have lost to a pathetic, depleted Sacramento team.
    larry cant coach this team bub... bird let Carlisle handle a lot of the x and o's. bird made sure the team never lost focus guess u could say.

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  32. #45
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Yeah....I never saw Bird as an X's and O's guy.

  33. #46
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    NO the point is the trade should have never been made. They have taken a 3pt threat away from the offense and replaced him another guy that needs the ball in his hands. It doesn't work from an X's an O's stand point. This is the main reason for the team's stuggles. They no longer spread the floor, dump it inside, and swing it for open looks. Granted Granger wasn't hitting the shot very well, but NOW nobody is. You can survive one guy not shooting well for the season. But teams still had to honor Granger's shot when he was on the floor. In th 2nd unit we had Lance facilitating, Granger camped out on the 3pt line and Scola setting the Pick and Pop. It actually worked okay, because Lance was able make up for any offensive deficiencies from Scola or Granger. The problem happened when Lance decided that he had the green light and didn't even need to try and pass it to Scola or Granger. Thats when the team really started to struggle.

    The only way this is fixed is to run a 2nd unit of Lance, Watson, Copeland, Scola, Mahinmi. They also need to play Lance less with the Starters and give those 1st unit minutes to Butler or Solo Hill. They have to have a guy in the starting line up who can play D and hit the spot up 3, and keep the ball swinging when he doesn't have a shot.
    I don't think that the main reason for the team's struggles are due to the fact that we traded a guy averaging 35.9% from the field in 22.5 MPG for a guy who is shooting 41.4% from the field in 21.7 MPG. If anything, we should have Turner shoot the three more considering that he is 7-16 from three point land since coming here.

    Has Turner been as effective as we hoped he would be when he made the trade? No, but this idea that the team fell apart because of Granger's absence is just really far fetched. If his absence caused the best team in the league to crumble, then that's basically saying that he is one of the most important players in the league despite being a 8.3 PPG player who missed the first two months of the season and wasn't even playing when we went to the ECF's last year. If Granger had been a key contributor on last year's team and then been a major contributor on our team this season, then I would be the first to say that we missed him. But he was a complete shell of his old self and wasn't that important anymore.

    Our issues aren't because of the bench. We're struggling because the once dominant starting lineup is playing like crap for the most part - the starting lineup who took Miami to 7 last year with basically no help from the bench. Hibbert gets shoved out position too easily, has shot a weak percentage all year, doesn't rebound well, and has had way too many opponents put up KG numbers on him lately. West has struggled a bit recently. George Hill gets torched by virtually every PG in the league and been shooting the ball like crap lately, plus it seems like he is struggling to find his role on this current team. Lance has IMO been our most consistent player, but he certainly has had too many moments where he dribbles too much, turns it over, and is generally unpredictable.

    The biggest of all problems, IMHO, is that the guy who was championed as the next Lebron and Durant has generally been awful from the offensive end lately. This is a trend that was starting long before Granger left, and it's reached a complete boiling point. I put the most blame on PG because I think we should expect the most from him. He is the guy who went toe to toe with Lebron in the ECF's, signed the huge contract before the season started, got the Gatorade commercials, started in the all-star game, and in general just received a massive amount of hype. He backed it up in the first two months of the league and was playing like the MVP throughout the new year. But all of the talk about how he was the next big thing began to get to his head. He started playing as if the only way the Pacers could win is if he had a Durant-like impact on the game. There have been a ton of crappy predictable ISO's, forced jumpers, sloppy takes to the bucket, and a lot of complaints to the refs. That all translates to a 41.0 FG% in January, a 40.1% in February, and an especially awful 37.1% in March. This is far too long to be a mere "slump". We're talking 43 games here.....a little over half the season. His selfish style of offense has caused a domino effect that has hurt everything.

    We're struggling because our starters are playing far below their ability. It's not because we swapped bench players.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-30-2014 at 10:21 PM.

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  35. #47
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic


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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Look at the bright side: We only have one more day of the Month from Hell that we probably should never speak of again.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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  39. #49
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Look at the bright side: We only have one more day of the Month from Hell that we probably should never speak of again.

    I'll start a new saying...................March suckiness brings April luckiness

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  41. #50
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    Default Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

    Anybody know what the attendance numbers are for March compared to the rest of the season? The Pacers uninspired play hasn't hurt their attendance yet has it?

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