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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    To me it’s just painfully apparent that the Pacers are done with the regular season. They checked out somewhere before the all-star break and other than for a few big moments have been back since.

    The Miami game was proof enough for me that when they absolutely had to they could muster up enough game to beat a good team and then the very next game not give enough effort to even be competitive with a team that they should wipe the floor with. That is no disrespect intended to the Wizards as they have been coming strong in the new year, but at the end of the day for the first 2/3 of the season we were not only the best in the east we were the best team in the NBA.

    We just officially have to pray that we can beat the Cavs on Sunday because I can assure you that the Heat will trounce the Bucks and then we will only be down to a one game lead with us having to face the Spurs and the Thunder at home. I don’t like our chances there.

    All we can do is hope that the sunshiner’s are correct and that in the post season with no back to backs or any other excuses that the team can flip a switch and this season won’t go down in flames.

    There is not a lot of reasons to really dwell on this game and to be blunt that is probably going to be true till the playoffs. Whatever anybody says is wrong with the team they are probably right.

    Our offense was atrocious as normal but if you want to say that the defense wasn’t great either than I’m not going to argue. Considering in the 2nd quarter we scored a whole whopping 16 points and in the 3rd quarter allowed them to score 30 it’s hard to say which is worse.

    I’ll say it though till I’m blue in the face, we have no one on a night in and night out basis that can stick an open jump shot from anywhere. I just sit in amazement at how teams just run pick and rolls and the guard rises up and sticks a 15’ jumper off of a curl while if we did the same exact thing it would clang so hard off of the rim that the shockwaves would be measurable.

    Now the one thing that was a little confusing about this game to me was Frank’s use of Scola.

    Scola did a pretty good job of scoring the first half in fact he got 10 point, then Frank plays him 2 min. the rest of the game? Not sure what is up there.

    But David West’s inability to hit anything inside the painted area anymore is beyond concerning for me. Hell I feel better if he does fade back for a three than I do with him putting up a layup.

    As to Paul you can pretty much tell what you are going to get from Paul by the way he goes to the basket. Against big name teams he will take it hard and try and stuff it home, thus he gave us the Miami game. Against lesser opponents we get “to cool to dunk” Paul who provides us with a variety of finger rolls and scoop shots none of which usually find their mark.

    Also there needs to be no finger pointing to any one player and there sure as hell should not be any player calling out any other player. This is a group effort, it is not a Lance Stephenson issue. Sure he missed his first 9 shots and that is a huge problem, but he is not the first player this season to do it and ultimately he hit 3 of his next 4.

    I see Roy in the post game is already back to whining about the offense and while he can certainly complain that he didn’t get enough shots he better not say that Paul George or David West has earned carte blanche. They were both atrocious.

    Also Roy if you would hold your damn position you might be able to get the ball passed to you in a decent fashion.

    Either way though this game is just a repeat of all the other games we’ve seen. Teams just pack the paint and jam up the passing lanes daring anyone on our team to hit an outside shot. Till we do it that is the modus operandi every team will use in defending us.

    I’m willing to listen to alternative views but for now I’m just going to go with the fact that they are bored with the regular season and are just cruising till the playoffs. My opinion is that this will burn them but stranger things have happened.

    I’m just going to do a few grades.

    Paul George: D

    Yes he played decent defense and yes he had 3 steals but he also negated that with his 5 turnovers. 27% from the field doesn’t help either. Is not going to ever break through that upper level until he understands you have to play as hard vs. the middle and lower teams as you do vs. the Heat and the upper tier teams.

    David West: d

    It felt worse than a C to me but that’s what I’ll go with. BTW in everybody talking about Quinn Buckner one of the reasons I can’t stand him is because according to him West does no wrong, well let me assure you he does. He was out of position several times tonight on defense and again I am just sick to death of this guy missing layups. His lack of mobility also distresses me at times. Did attempt to rebound but overall I just did not like his game.

    Roy Hibbert: d

    Why do we only talk about good Lance and bad Lance? There certainly is good Roy & bad Roy. We got a dose of bad Roy tonight. Yes he blocked some shots and did a decent job of protecting the rim, but that was it. That is all he gave you tonight. He could not guard Gortat (when he dunked that ball on Roy & got the and 1 I had to slap my fist in my hand like Dwight Howard for the Polish Hammer) and God know he could not stay in position to get a rebound if his soul depended on it. Also please don’t give him the excuse that Lance was stealing his boards, he had several opportunities to grab boards and he stood there flat footed like a cow. He wasn’t boxing out anyone, he just was immobile and never went to get the board and waited for it to come to him which it never did.

    Lance Stephenson: d

    Do not shoot 5 three point shots Lance. There is a reason they were leaving you open to try and hit that. Also not sure that he made Beal suffer on the offensive end the way he should have but he did rebound. However going 0-9 to start the game was brutal beyond words.

    George Hill: C

    I realize when Paul George is getting up 22 shots that shots are at a premium. But again to me it is vitally important when George is playing against one of the uber guards of the NBA (I consider Wall one of them) that he make them work on the defensive end and not just by free lancing the passing lanes. He hit 50% of his shots, we really need to work on a way to get him more involved in the offense when the wings are not on.

    I just don’t care enough tonight to talk about the bench.

    BTW, is Watson going to be sporting a prosthetic leg when he returns? My God this is taking forever.

    When 4 of your 5 starters shoot 30% from the field for a game you are not going to beat many (any) NBA teams.

    Considering we played the Wizards I feel this is the most fitting music for this team tonight.

    Last edited by Peck; 03-29-2014 at 12:47 AM.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Thanks for taking the time Peck. Your description of having given up on the regular season was somehow comforting compared to the 'what the hell did i just witness' feeling that I was left with after watching that.
    'persevailed' - Best neological portmanteau ever

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I disagree with the notion that they've given up on the regular season. Everyone on here wants to use the q word after every loss. It's asinine. You can't quit and then unquit and then quit and then unquit again etc... No one said this looked like a team that had given up after the Miami game. This is Occham's Razor in it's purest form. The explanation is obvious. We're a different team at home and away. You said we've only had a few good moments since the all star break, but that's simply untrue. We've continued to be absolutely dominant at home. We've only played like garbage on the road. Which is the way this team had been all year. We just didn't have a lot of tough road games early. Hell, I pointed out in another thread that we've only had a few good road wins all year. They haven't quit, they haven't forgotten how to play, they just aren't a good road team. The only question to discuss is why do they struggle so much on the road. Not enough experience? Immaturity? Coaching?...

    I wanna add this quote that I posted last week, just to underscore my point.

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    Can't wait to hear everyone proclaim that our season is about to turn around when we beat Miami on Wednesday. Only to have everyone immediately go back into panic mode when we lose in Washington. I said it after we beat the Bulls at home and everyone jumped down my throat, but I'll say it again. This team is mediocre on the road, and awesome at home. That isn't going to change. We're still making it to the ECF. Whether we have a chance to go to the finals depends on us holding on to that one seed.
    Last edited by LongTimePacerFan; 03-29-2014 at 01:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I hope the "bored" theory is right. Part of me wonders if this team just isn't too obsessed with beating Miami, and if that's the case we could get beat long before we get to play them. I wish we could move the ball like the Spurs do, I wouldn't mind the turnovers so much if we were effective when we didn't turn it over. It just seems like nothing ever comes easy at the offensive end, I feel lucky every time we score.

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  9. #5
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    This isn't how teams that are headed for a championship play...even in the regular season. There are really 2 problems. First, we may not get home court the way this team is playing. That will come back to bite hard in a league where superstars win rings and going through Lebron James is extremely difficult. Second, we are likely to meet a "for real" or very hot team in the playoffs before Miami. We all got to see that when the mighty Pacers lost to a rag tag Boston Celtics team...I think the last time this team had a strong regular season.

    It's really a shame, but immaturity may be this team's undoing. Combine that with the fact DWest isn't getting any younger and, if true, that is pretty much criminal. If you doubt it's maturity you might check out Paul George's selfie or Lance Stephenson's "Ron Artest" tirade from Wednesday night. Honestly, I have no reason to think this is going to turn out well.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimePacerFan View Post
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    I disagree with the notion that they've given up on the regular season. Everyone on here wants to use the q word after every loss. It's asinine. You can't quit and then unquit and then quit and then unquit again etc... No one said this looked like a team that had given up after the Miami game. This is Occham's Razor in it's purest form. The explanation is obvious. We're a different team at home and away. You said we've only had a few good moments since the all star break, but that's simply untrue. We've continued to be absolutely dominant at home. We've only played like garbage on the road. Which is the way this team had been all year. We just didn't have a lot of tough road games early. Hell, I pointed out in another thread that we've only had a few good road wins all year. They haven't quit, they haven't forgotten how to play, they just aren't a good road team. The only question to discuss is why do they struggle so much on the road. Not enough experience? Immaturity? Coaching?...

    I wanna add this quote that I posted last week, just to underscore my point.
    you can't quit and then unquit?
    oh yes you can.... i have seen it and done it myself multiple times in various ways and on various levels. i remember playing some pickup ball with some friends and the friend i was playing with was giving a half-assed performance that night on defense and we were getting beat decisively because he wasn't playing much defense. i gave him a mini bob knight pep talk because we agreed beforehand to play in the 2 on 2 matchup for 10 bucks to the winning team and told him that if he didn't start applying himself on defense that he would be paying for both of us if we lost. guess what? he unquit.
    we won the game because of his effort on defense too.
    i agree with peck that the team has given up (at least collectively for the most part) on the regular season.
    hell, i have seen it multiple times at the nba level too. mostly from pf and c types. coleman, olowokandi, dampier and such. they coasted through seasons until a contract year came up and then it was time to give a spit again.

  12. #7
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I think there are a couple of things going on and if they can't flip a switch and bring it in the playoffs then this will be Vogel's last year. I could be wrong because there are a lot of positives but I think Bird is going to see how the team has lost focus over the course of the long NBA season as well as how the team hasn't adjusted (effectively) to the defense teams use against us, and think the easiest fix for all of that is to replace the coach.

    I don't think a deadeye shooter is the answer because I think with a better offense, and better shots, our own players would suddenly 'improve'... and without it that hired gun deadeye shooter we'd bring in would have us scratching our heads and asking what happened to his shot. A deadeye shooter AND an improved offense? Now that would be good!



    Some of the selfish play could be argued to be due to our offense just not being thorough enough or flexible enough to deal with adversity. It doesn't need to be complicated but it does need to find a way to be more efficient and gets defenses off balance. When the early offense isn't there we seem to too often go into hero mode if not panic mode. So the selfish play we see could just be a symptom of the offensive system being... well... offensive. And if it's not and it's more a matter of players not sticking with the offense then it's still going to reflect back on the coach.

    I don't know... Would Bird go half way and dictate Frank put an offensive guru of Bird's choosing on the bench beside him?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Try and put it on Frank all you want, but most of our players take bad shots and make bad decisions on a routine basis. Low basketball IQ is a real problem here. Especially when nobody can seem to hit an open jumper, much less a contested jumper.

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    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I don't know... Would Bird go half way and dictate Frank put an offensive guru of Bird's choosing on the bench beside him?
    I hope so, I think no matter what happens this year this probably needs to happen.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    The Team did so poorly that I'm not even going to bother commenting beyond this:

    I'd like to believe what Peck is saying and that this Team just needs to move beyond this game and loss. The problem is that this has been said, time and time again ( over the last 2 months ) after losing unexpectedly to a Team that they should beat. Like all of you...I'm tired of the excuses.....they sucked and don't deserve to be considered the best Team in the East. I could care less about their record.....until they can prove otherwise, they aren't playing like a #1 or #2 seed.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The Team did so poorly that I'm not even going to bother commenting beyond this:

    I'd like to believe what Peck is saying and that this Team just needs to move beyond this game and loss. The problem is that this has been said, time and time again ( over the last 2 months ) after losing unexpectedly to a Team that they should beat. Like all of you...I'm tired of the excuses.....they sucked and don't deserve to be considered the best Team in the East. I could care less about their record.....until they can prove otherwise, they aren't playing like a #1 or #2 seed.

    And I get questioned for being unrealistic when I say they probably won't reach the ECF this year? These "flip a switch" people are in for a rude awakening come playoff time I think.

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    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I think it's safe to say that they will be up and down throughout the rest of these regular season games. I'm still hoping for them to "turn it on" come playoff time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Try and put it on Frank all you want, but most of our players take bad shots and make bad decisions on a routine basis. Low basketball IQ is a real problem here. Especially when nobody can seem to hit an open jumper, much less a contested jumper.
    But at a certain point, doesn't that reflect on coaching? Especially when it's multiple players?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    If I never see Paul put his hand up and scowl at the officials after a "missed call" again it will still be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too soon.

    As if the recent play wasn't enough, the b*tching and complaining after every shot is really starting to sour my enjoyment of this team. At one point last night while running back on defense Paul thought it prudent take his eye off of the ball handler and his man to glare at the official and smack his elbow repeatedly. I can't recall any Pacer team that spent so much time whining to the officials than this one has begun to do. Its no wonder Paul doesn't get half the calls he complains about. The word is out in the referee circles that Paul is a whiner and the last thing an official wants to do is reward a bemoaning baby.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Like i said in Memphis topic - we are EASY to defend- Hill West pnp at top/ George Iso/ + that set with few screens for PG (Hibbet screening is horrible)
    Our offense is stagnant
    How many open looks we got yesterday?? How many Wizzards had??
    Great ofensive player like Evan - 7 ppg as Pacer last 5 games 5 ppg - 0 yesterday - Vogel has no clue how to use him.
    I have to get up at 2 am to watch the game .. and i have ****.d up next day ....Its really depressing ... but GO PACERS!!!!

    (sorry for my english )

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I think the fire went out of this team when Danny Granger returned to play. Before he was back there was a win one for the gipper attitude. Everyone thought when Danny would return it was an automatic NBA Championship banner. Paul had stepped up to the plate big time before DG returned. When Danny got back Paul reverted to old Paul and deferred to Danny again.
    DG was not ready to return to star form yet, so it set the team back a little.

    Then the All Star fiasco with "is Lance an All Star or isn't he" complete with video and national hype. Then the let down rejection. This stuff gets into young (and old people) people's heads.

    Then our center is told he is a reincarnation of Wilt and starts to believe it. Roy can hardly stand up on the court. He is going to be good but has work and maturing to do yet before he is really ready.

    Then the trade.

    Larry essentially told Paul "You have the green light, its your team go for it" Lance heard "Lance, you not that good, we can't trust you with the team, so we brought Evan to take your place in case you screw up ."

    Bringing Bynum in told Ian the same thing and hinted strongly to Roy that "you are replaceable".

    All these things happening instilled doubt in the minds of the these young men at exactly the wrong time.

    At the same time GH has seemingly crawled into a cave to hide. DW is solid but I wonder if all this is tiring him, physically and emotionally. CJ got hurt, Bynum reverted to form (injured), D Sloan (who?), our number one pick (Solomon), our ready for retirement players (Scola, Butler) and the best player in the league who never plays (Cope) are not enough to rely on to carry us out of this malaise. Lavoy. (had to put him in here)

    Then to top all this off, our Coach was mentored and trained by one of the worst Coaches the Pacers ever tolerated.

    Unless these guys decide to use their talents to help each other like they did at the start of the season, we will not have to worry about beating the Heat in the conference finals.

    Man, I love the Pacers but this is getting harder for me to enjoy. Show some heart guys, you are way better than this.


    Remember "Orlando Johnson is not walking through that door"

    Did Brian Shaw mean that much to this team?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Surprisingly, this season has challenged me more than any other as a fan. Yes, even more than the JOB years. Because you know then that the team was bad and there were really no expectations. But this Pacers team should be pound for pound the best team in the NBA, or at least in the East. But as others have said, this team has given up on the regular season, which to me is a reflection of a combination of immaturity and the fact that the NBA season is and always has been about 25 games too long.

    Unfortunately, this team is not going to wake up until they lose the one seed, and by then it will be too late because Miami ain't giving it back. And in a year where we have both Stephenson AND Turner, David West before what will probably be a decline in play beginning next year, and the possibility of Andrew frigging Bynum in the ECF and beyond is a damn shame. Couple that with a Heat team that isn't very deep and a beat up D-Wade, and a superior Western Conference where whoever makes it out of it alive is going to be worn down come the finals. This is our best opportunity to win the championship, but I think these guys are too immature and are going to blow it.

    I didn't go to the game last night, even though I worked about 50 feet from the Verizon Center (that office building you always see next to the back of the Verizon Center on telecasts, that's where I work). Because really, most of these guys are playing lazy and have checked out, and I'm not spending my hard earned money to watch that.
    Last edited by idioteque; 03-29-2014 at 09:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    When you look at Miami's remaining schedule these games are very, very important. Miami will lose 2 maybe 3 games the rest of the way, which means if the Pacers want to play 500 ball they will be the 2 seed.

    I have heard all year how important that 1 seed is, we are in a position to fight and get the 1 seed and we keep seeing pathetic effort after pathetic effort. Don't tell me there is a magic switch and things will be fine in the playoffs, because if there was a magic switch it would have been flipped by now. These games are pretty important if that number 1 seed is all that important.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Guess who else has 2 thumbs and has given up on the regular season....


    I love the team, even implosion mode Pacers, but I'm not going to pretend this looks like quality ball. I'm also torn on how to evaluate the Miami win because outside of Lebron they looked like garbage, especially Chalmers. At multiple times that game was out of hand and only some sloppy Miami ball and odd choices salvaged it. For example when LeBron just randomly lost his dribble coming into the frontcourt late in the game. I mean I loved seeing those jerks lose and I do think we saw some great ball from the Pacers for stretches, but it didn't feel like I was watching the Spurs or Thunder or last year's playoff Heat or Pacers. It didn't look like championship ball, it just looked like "well I guess the East is such a s***hole that the Pacers can win it by default".

    But they showed that they probably need the #1 seed and it's clear that if you don't beat WSH, CLE, etc and count on beating SAS, OKC or in MIA to get that seed that you are probably screwed. So I don't buy the "back to bored" because they should have the fear of god in them looking at the standings, and double that now. They just threw the WED win away and they had to have a sense of that even as it was going on. They must know that until #1 is locked up that they are already in the playoff battle.

    In fact these games mean more than the first 2 road games in round 1. You could phone in 2 games in ATL or CHA and probably still win that series if you were really just bored, but if the ECF is only 3 games in Indy then you are done.

    So I don't think it is sleepwalking. The Wiz tried to through that game away with awful shooting in the first quarter and left it on a platter. The Pacers looked confused almost the entire time which led to awkward passes and forced shot selection. They look like guys trying to figure out their reads on offense, they get into each other's space, they stand around watching from the weakside, the picks are loose and the screens don't exist. It's as fluid as a YMCA pick-up game on offense, and you can't fix that by trying harder. More effort into garbage and confusion just leads to tired defenders who are still trying to race down transition buckets from s*** offense that puked the ball up at the FT line.

    The Heat just lean on Lebron and some shot making by Wade or Bosh some nights, maybe a touch of Allen or Beasley. They don't need good offense like Indy does cause they can junk their way to points half the time.



    There are only 2 scenarios that seem possible

    1) My theory - they just don't understand their offense, or at least what to do with how team's are attacking it now, and are therefore in deep trouble with a system too broke to get out of round 2.

    2) Alternate - they just don't feel compelled to win any games except matchups with Miami. That means we will see 1 more game with effort the rest of the way and can except a 2-7 or 3-6 finish and a certain #2 seed. It also means they won't be fired up to play Atlanta, Charlotte, Toronto or Chicago because those teams aren't Miami. That's a 1st round loss as they go on cruise control waiting for Lebron to come to the court for the Bobcats.

    3) not an option - just bored by games with no meaning....um, how many of those 9 wins at the start of the year had more meaning than this game vs the Wizards? A win is a win except wins against Miami or wins in the EC vs WC (for tie-breaker purposes). So this Wizards game was as important to win as game 3, back when the team talked about how critical it was to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO GET THE #1 SEED. They still say that's their goal. Why phone this game in just 10 games from the goal? Why would this carry less weight than a game 75 away from the goal? If Miami was 10 back then sure, the goal is over. But this was a game where you could see the finish line.

    I don't believe #3 is realistic because there is no way they don't see that goal within reach, there is no way they can't circle the winnable games left that would get them there even if they lose the MIA, SAS and OKC game.

    I say they wanted to win the Wizards game and that the real difference is Gortat >>> Oden and outside of Lebron right now the Wiz > Miami. That's true for Chicago, Toronto, Charlotte and maybe even the crappy Nets. "Bad Roy" = Roy playing against tough, physical centers more than "uninspired". To me the Pacers don't look worse than these other teams, they just don't look better either. That makes their playoff chances a crap shoot rather than the certainty that top seeds usually feel prior to the CF at least. With the offense figured out they just aren't better than these other teams. Good news is that means they CAN win I suppose, just like the Raps or Bobcats can win.

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  36. #20
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Tell the Spurs the season is too long. Looks to me like they are glad it didn't end at game 62.

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  38. #21
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    This season makes me really appreciate teams who successfully go petal to the medal for an entire year and put up win totals in the 60's. It certainly makes me respect the 2004 Pacers for what they were able to accomplish in that one season. I obviously don't look back on that era with fond memories, but for that one season they were a damn good team from start to finish and there is no doubt whatsoever that they would have made the Finals if Detroit hadn't acquired Sheed.

    In the end, I'll be happy with any win total that gives us the number 1 seed, but I was really hoping that these guys could top the 61 wins from the 04 Pacers and set the franchise record for single season wins. Man, it looked like this team was going to breeze to a win total in the mid 60's, but now we're at a point where we can only lose one more game if we're going to win 60.

  39. #22

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    If I never see Paul put his hand up and scowl at the officials after a "missed call" again it will still be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too soon.

    As if the recent play wasn't enough, the b*tching and complaining after every shot is really starting to sour my enjoyment of this team. At one point last night while running back on defense Paul thought it prudent take his eye off of the ball handler and his man to glare at the official and smack his elbow repeatedly. I can't recall any Pacer team that spent so much time whining to the officials than this one has begun to do. Its no wonder Paul doesn't get half the calls he complains about. The word is out in the referee circles that Paul is a whiner and the last thing an official wants to do is reward a bemoaning baby.
    this reminds me of the days when j.o. was here in his prime. he went from rising, exciting talent to a guy who was just as focused at whining to the refs after almost every shot. it became such a priority for him that he routinely gave up points because he was too busy with complaining to the refs and his man just kept playing and the team would effectively be down a man on defense and get scored on because he was still focused on teilling the ref he thought he was fouled. sometimes it was true and sometimes it wasn't.
    while pg hasn't gotten t'd up for this, i think the refs have mostly just tuned him out. i don't like saying this but yes, pg has become one of the whiniest players in the league. it has become very rare when he has the ball and goes up for a shot with a guy defending him and pg misses and doesn't whine to the refs. frank needs to tell him to cut that out because it is hurting the team.

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  41. #23
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I missed this game because I was hanging around downtown last night watching the NCAA games, and I have absolutely zero desire whatsoever to go back and watch the recording. What obviously jumps out from the box score is that PG and Lance combined to go 9-35 form the field. We can't beat many teams when our wings are throwing up percentages like that. Let me guess, PG decided to not let the game come to him like he did against Miami, and reverted back to his old ways of forcing up garbage jumpers and forced takes to the rack that resulted in ugly misses and whining to the refs. As Peck pointed out, it looks like Stephenson missed all five of his 3 threes. Yeah, there's a reason that teams are letting him take those.

    Like I said, I didn't get to see the game, but the boxscore says that this was a game that we've seen all too many times lately. PG and Lance seem to understand that they must play team ball for us to beat Miami, but the problem is that they think they're good enough to win by playing 1 on 1 against elite opponents. They aren't.

    Hibbert another dud. Peck mentions that he couldn't even guard Gortat. Looks like that's yet another big man who has owned Hibbert recently. Remember that beatdown Al Jefferson gave him? Or what about that Sims guy on Philly shining against him? For a guy who frequently gets trumpeted as an elite post defender, he sure has gotten smacked around a lot by other bigs lately. He is great at owning the paint against Miami, but most of that is because they don't have a good big who can smack him back.

  42. #24
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I think you are right that they don't care about the lesser teams any more or the regular season, its just too bad they don't realize that they are flushing their chances of actually winning an NBA title down the drain.

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  44. #25
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Sorcerer's Apprentices

    I'm seeing a team that thinks they shoudl be treated like one of the elites while having done practically nothing to earn the treatment. Seriously what have they won? A few mentions on ESPN does not a champion make...but it appears it can certainly destroy one.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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