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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I thought we got mostly Good Lance tonight. It's because he not only played with energy, he played as if he had teammates on the court instead of as if he was the Great One Sent To Single-Handedly Save Us All (coming soon to a theater near you).
    Good recap.

    When we play the Heat, I think that our raw basketball survival instincts kick in and we revert back to everything that made us so successful over the last couple of years. Our guys put all of the petty selfish issues aside and played unified in their quest to beat the evil Heat. Our entire existence revolves around beating these guys, and it's understandable to a point that we've gotten a bit bored at times this season since all we've really cared about over the last 10 months is our ECF's rematch against Miami.

    Lance is a smarter player than many give him credit for. He understands that the Pacers won't beat the Heat if he plays a bunch of selfish 1 on 1 stat padding ball. Thus, he played like the team ball Lance who is one of the more dangerous assets in the NBA. PG was the same way. He didn't force near as many garbage ISO jumpers as he did against the Bulls earlier in the week. Instead, he had some spectacular takes to the racks and he didn't allow himself to get caught up in a 1 on 1 jumper competition with Lebron.

    I think that both PG and Lance fell victim to the idea that they were great enough to pad their stats by playing 1 on 1 ball against lesser opponents. That has obviously bitten us in recent weeks. However, as last night showed, I think that both of these guys clearly understand that they have to play team ball to beat Miami. The coaches just need to convey to them that they need to have that same mentality against any opponent.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    I wonder how much of Reggie's antics would be T'd up in today's NBA??
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    I'm not going to ***** about the refs when West clearly traveled on his 3.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    I'm not going to ***** about the refs when West clearly traveled on his 3.

    True, and they called that out of bounds on Wade when he didn't step out. He hit that shot.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    You honestly think Lebron got too many FTs? Just watch his play style when he is in attack mode like he was last night he gets to the line. He earned his FT attempts last night. I don't know why people ***** about the official's so much. I thought it was a well reffed game. Both Pacer fans and Heat fans sound like Dwade or Paul George *****ing about every call. Just play. Saying we were playing 8 on 5 is just crazy.
    The officiating was bad in the first half because Miami was getting the calls that we weren't. Both teams were playing the same way. Both teams were taking it aggressively to the rim. Both teams were getting mugged. Miami drew fouls, and Indiana didn't. At one point, Miami had a 12-1 advantage in FTA. I wouldn't complain if our whole offense was putting up jump-shots, but this was not the case
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    I think comnplaining about the refs is not only a waste of time I think in this case it is just wrong. There were a ton of questionable calls and a lot of went our way. The two non-flagrants could have easily been called flagrants - judgement calls even with replay.

    But when Wade hit that three in the 4th quarter and was waved off because they said he stepped out of bounds in the corner, he did not (ESPN had the clear replay). That is not a judgement call, and that was 3 points right there. Plus one of James drives into Roy in the first half it should have been a foul on Roy.

    Well sure a lot of calls went against the Pacers. Yes of course, but a lot of calls went the Pacers way. If I were a Heat fan and tended to complain about the refs I would have plenty to complain about. So why bother complaining. I just get sick of it. There are going to be bad calls either way - some worse than others. I bet if I broke down every play and divided the calls in bad, good and questionable. They would be about equal number that went the heat way as went the Pacers way
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-27-2014 at 10:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    True, and they called that out of bounds on Wade when he didn't step out. He hit that shot.
    To be fair that's such a tough call to make in the flow of the game. His foot was hovering way out of bounds.
    Last edited by PacersHomer; 03-27-2014 at 09:21 AM.

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  14. #33

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Watching Oden attempt to move on defense is depressing.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    That was an ugly hard fought game we barely won.. I'll take it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    A couple of points here. While P4E is one of my favorite posters here, I couldn't disagree more on the reffing last night. Whether or not one concedes that Bron earned his FT's int he first half (there was some phantom contact on a couple of those... Ian's comes to mind), in no way was there any consistency in how they were calling. Heat were jumpshooting and benefiting from touch-fouls on the perimeter. We were playing inside and much more contact was being let go under our basket (examples being no and-1 on Paul's dunk and 3 non-calls in one play, where Haslem fouls Roy twice... even leaving his feet and landing into Roy on the shot, then Lewis coming directly over West's back on the rebound and freaking West getting the call. Many more were there). Call it one way or the other... not both.

    Scola never touched Bron's nose on that foul (only brushed his forehead), so I don't know where that tampon in Bron's nose came from.

    Lance... I appreciate that you have to yield yourself to situational awareness, but c'mon. The double tech was a joke. Lance and Mario somehow had their hands locked on that play and one or the other of them released probably harder than the other expected, which is why they walked up on each other. If you are going to call a double-t, it needed to be on Lance/Chalmers for that, which didn't rise to that level. Then Wades inserts himself, which should've drawn a T on him alone. On the ejection (watched this over and over)... Chalmers, who is on the ground, appears to stick his leg out and trip Lance coming back in bounds who stumbles near or into Wade who looks at him... that's where that "What!" came from IMO. Then they surround the ref and intimidate him into the call.

    I cannot see how the refs don't get sick of the constant rubbing they get from the Heat players throughout the game. I'd be throwing T's left and right. But they totally buckle under it. When freaking Jeff Van Gundy is talking about how the Pacers are getting shafted on various calls, you know something's wrong.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    I'm not going to ***** about the refs when West clearly traveled on his 3.
    Bosh did even more pivot foot movement on his last 3.
    "I mean, you'd walk into our dressing room and run into Mel Daniels holding a .45 -- it makes you wonder."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Watching Oden attempt to move on defense is depressing.
    I was rather happy. I was depressed when he didn't start the second half.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    To be fair that's such a tough call to make in the flow of the game. His foot was hovering way out of bounds.
    True, but you know that if the same exact call is made on a PG three, Pacers fans in general would be crying about it. And that is my point. Why do we bother waste our time complaining about the refs. Pacers need to win the game regardless of the refs.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    The officiating was bad in the first half because Miami was getting the calls that we weren't. Both teams were playing the same way. Both teams were taking it aggressively to the rim. Both teams were getting mugged. Miami drew fouls, and Indiana didn't. At one point, Miami had a 12-1 advantage in FTA. I wouldn't complain if our whole offense was putting up jump-shots, but this was not the case
    The final FT discrepancy was Miami 29 FTA - IND 21 FTA. So the discrepancy wasn't that bad in the end.

    Miami had so many FTA in the second quarter due to being in the bonus extremely early. From there, any foul resulted in FT's.

    Did they call a lot of touch fouls on the Pacers? Yes they did. There were also a few phantom fouls as well (Birdman's alley-oop comes to mind) but I felt that the refs were trying to control a game that was extremely physical by today's NBA standards.

    If you read the post game comments from Lebron and Wade, they were obviously pretty unhappy with the officiating as the Pacers were allowed to play more physical than the Heat would have liked.

    I feel like the Heat get the benefit of the whistle more than any other team in the league, especially D-Wade. But I don't think we were playing 8-5 in any way. If we were, Hibbert would have fouled out, and those two "questionable" calls against Scola and Ian would have resulted in flagrants.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    They weren't going to call flagrants on Ian or Scola til Baby Bron got his binkie and blankie and whined like the little ***** he is...the only reason it was even up for review is because he put on the show of the century and then stuff cotton up his nose even though he wasn't bleeding.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Good recap.

    When we play the Heat, I think that our raw basketball survival instincts kick in and we revert back to everything that made us so successful over the last couple of years. Our guys put all of the petty selfish issues aside and played unified in their quest to beat the evil Heat. Our entire existence revolves around beating these guys, and it's understandable to a point that we've gotten a bit bored at times this season since all we've really cared about over the last 10 months is our ECF's rematch against Miami.

    Lance is a smarter player than many give him credit for. He understands that the Pacers won't beat the Heat if he plays a bunch of selfish 1 on 1 stat padding ball. Thus, he played like the team ball Lance who is one of the more dangerous assets in the NBA. PG was the same way. He didn't force near as many garbage ISO jumpers as he did against the Bulls earlier in the week. Instead, he had some spectacular takes to the racks and he didn't allow himself to get caught up in a 1 on 1 jumper competition with Lebron.

    I think that both PG and Lance fell victim to the idea that they were great enough to pad their stats by playing 1 on 1 ball against lesser opponents. That has obviously bitten us in recent weeks. However, as last night showed, I think that both of these guys clearly understand that they have to play team ball to beat Miami. The coaches just need to convey to them that they need to have that same mentality against any opponent.
    For the first time since game 6 in last season's playoffs--we got REALLY good Lance against the Heat. He moved the ball for the most part, and took what was there. Against the Heat you HAVE to be smart, strong, assertive, and quick to make a decision/move, and Lance was all of those things. He had a few semi wild moments, but at this point you have to take the good with the bad. As long as Wade is hobbled, Lance will be able to stick with him defensively for the most part.

    I know I am in the minority in thinking this but I think Lance is at his when he keeps it to 2-3 dribbles, and then either makes a move or moves the ball. He doesn't need to orchestrate and get others involved. Just move the ball, and move yourself. Get to the rim if you can, shoot if you're wide open, and move the ball if those two options don't exist.

    He and PG both played within themselves, while maintaining their aggressiveness at the same time. I was very pleased. If only they could play that smart every game...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Those first half fouls were atrocious
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think comnplaining about the refs is not only a waste of time I think in this case it is just wrong. There were a ton of questionable calls and a lot of went our way. The two non-flagrants could have easily been called flagrants - judgement calls even with replay.

    But when Wade hit that three in the 4th quarter and was waved off because they said he stepped out of bounds in the corner, he did not (ESPN had the clear replay). That is not a judgement call, and that was 3 points right there. Plus one of James drives into Roy in the first half it should have been a foul on Roy.

    Well sure a lot of calls went against the Pacers. Yes of course, but a lot of calls went the Pacers way. If I were a Heat fan and tended to complain about the refs I would have plenty to complain about. So why bother complaining. I just get sick of it. There are going to be bad calls either way - some worse than others. I bet if I broke down every play and divided the calls in bad, good and questionable. They would be about equal.
    None of the 3 fouls at the end of the 2nd quarter were good calls. In at least 2 cases I don't think there was even any contact - in one, I think it was a "call them at both ends" issue.

    Really, though, I think those being so egregious is what caused the refs to straighten up some in the 2nd half. If you grant these guys are professionals, they are going to make adjustments just like the players.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I know I am in the minority in thinking this but I think Lance is at his when he keeps it to 2-3 dribbles, and then either makes a move or moves the ball. He doesn't need to orchestrate and get others involved. Just move the ball, and move yourself. Get to the rim if you can, shoot if you're wide open, and move the ball if those two options don't exist.
    Then we're in the same minority - I think almost all of our players are at their best if they are limited to 2-3 dribbles before something happens. I'd like some guys to find situations where they don't dribble at all and take an action immediately (Roy in the post, catch-and-shoot situations)
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    You honestly think Lebron got too many FTs? Just watch his play style when he is in attack mode like he was last night he gets to the line. He earned his FT attempts last night. I don't know why people ***** about the official's so much. I thought it was a well reffed game. Both Pacer fans and Heat fans sound like Dwade or Paul George *****ing about every call. Just play. Saying we were playing 8 on 5 is just crazy.
    No, he may have earned maybe half of them other times he would run up the court, someone would breath on them and they'd be in the bonus. The officiating last night was bad but eventually got a little better. Very poor showing for the stripes
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    I think Lebron Traveled about 5 times during that game, and never called. The last one was his 3pter he hit from the wing that was an answer to PG's corner 3 the play before. Lebron gathered the ball spotted up. Did a variety of jab steps and ball fakes, and then picks up his pivot shoot to get into the shooting motion as if the foot all his jab steps were coming off of was the actual pivot foot to begin with. The official was standing right behind the action and should have seen this. Swished a 3pter, for the lead. I mean if i can see from up in the balcony, his pivot foot lift off the ground to gather for the shot, then its a travel!
    Last edited by graphic-er; 03-27-2014 at 12:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Another point I wanted to make - all I want from the bench is for them to be able to hold their ground. This bench did that for the most part - the major run against them was when Miami actually had 3 of 5 starters on the floor. They may not have been spectacular, but they kept us in and let us rest the starters.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    The thing that annoys me about Lance's ejection is that after the 2nd T was called Wade started walking toward Lance staring him down and started clapping right towards him. Why was Wade not also assessed a second T?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Beating the Heat & the refs

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think Lebron Traveled about 5 times during that game, and never called. The last one was his 3pter he hit from the wing that was an answer to PG's corner 3 the play before. Lebron gathered the ball spotted up. Did a variety of jab steps and ball fakes, and then picks up his pivot shoot get into the shooting motion as it the foot all his jab steps were coming off of was the actually pivot foot to begin withe. The official was standing right behind the action and should seen this. Swished a 3pter, for the lead. I mean if i can see from up in the balcony, his pivot foot lift off the ground to gather for the shot, then its a travel!
    I personally thought the butt crawl no-call was the "best". I know rolling on the floor isn't a travel in the NBA, but I think you aren't allowed to actually advance with the ball while you are upright at all.
    BillS

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