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Thread: Granger - Turner

  1. #1
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    Default Granger - Turner

    While with the Pacers

                                                                                                      
    Rk Player Age G PER TS% eFG% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
    9 Danny Granger 30 29 10.4 .491 .428 9.0 8.0 0.7 1.5 12.8 19.7 98 101 0.0 1.1 1.1 .082
    10 Evan Turner 25 16 10.7 .491 .463 7.9 16.3 1.0 0.4 13.1 19.5 98 101 0.0 0.6 0.6 .081


    Practically identical.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Assist percentage is way up though. Evan is playing out of position on this PG BS because Sloan sucks so bad. We really need CJ back.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    ET is not even getting the chance to make shots.

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    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    U forgot something:

    Pacers W-L record w/Danny Granger 30-9 .769
    Pacers W-L record w/Evan Turner 9-7 .562

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    U forgot something:

    Pacers W-L record w/Danny Granger 30-9 .769
    Pacers W-L record w/Evan Turner 9-7 .562
    So we're blaming Turner? smh

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by 31Since1990 View Post
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    So we're blaming Turner? smh
    I won't blame him, but it's hard for me to say that the trade made us better.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    U forgot something:

    Pacers W-L record w/Danny Granger 30-9 .769
    Pacers W-L record w/Evan Turner 9-7 .562
    Unless you think Granger was the one holding the locker room together (which may be the case, but at this point we have no solid evidence) that stat has nothing to do with their individual performance. This is kind of my told you so post. As you can see, while they do have different skill sets, Granger gets more rebounds, blocks, fewer turnovers while Turner has more assists, they are identical in their production and offensive efficiency.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by 31Since1990 View Post
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    ET is not even getting the chance to make shots.
    Evan Turner FGA/game with Pacers = 7.5
    Danny Gragner FGA/game w/Pacers=7.7

    These numbers are freakishly close.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Let it die ... please let it die.... We need Granger to be a spot up three pointer shooter for us and score. He didn't do that at all. We needed to move on. Not necessarily implying this topic is saying this, but this whole "the Granger trade ruined this team!" sentiment is stupid. He was not playing very well when he came back despite not being asked to do much more then stand in the corner and hit a shot. We're asking ET to do a lot for us and he's done well considering he's playing with Sloan and Mahimi who suck.
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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Evan Turner FGA/game with Pacers = 7.5
    Danny Gragner FGA/game w/Pacers=7.7

    These numbers are freakishly close.
    They play basically the exact same minutes, and average basically the exact same amount of points. Mean while in LA Granger is putting up efficiency numbers similar to when he average 20+ppg, and Turner's efficiency is pretty much spot on with how it was in Philly, and a little worse.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    Let it die ... please let it die.... We need Granger to be a spot up three pointer shooter for us and score. He didn't do that at all. We needed to move on. Not necessarily implying this topic is saying this, but this whole "the Granger trade ruined this team!" sentiment is stupid. He was not playing very well when he came back despite not being asked to do much more then stand in the corner and hit a shot. We're asking ET to do a lot for us and he's done well considering he's playing with Sloan and Mahimi who suck.
    Actually Granger played great when he first came back. Just prior to Lance starting to play for himself over playing for the team, in fact I believe Lance's success playing with Granger is part of what prompted that. The problem with the trade was that it didn't actually address any issues on this team. It was at best a lateral move for a different skill set. It did nothing to improve this team at all this season. Nothing in Turner's advance statistics suggested he would be better than he has been while here, absolutely nothing. Nothing happening on the court suggested that Granger was a problem, unless you somehow think Orlando was a better player and 3 point threat than Granger. The problem with this team was never the skill sets or the talent the players on the court had. It was all about how the players on the court were using them, more specifically how Lance and Paul were using them. Granger is a great team player, and is proving that he can still produce just fine in LA right now. Bird was wrong, and those of us saying it was because of how Granger and Lance were being use were right.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    Let it die ... please let it die.... We need Granger to be a spot up three pointer shooter for us and score. He didn't do that at all. We needed to move on. Not necessarily implying this topic is saying this, but this whole "the Granger trade ruined this team!" sentiment is stupid. He was not playing very well when he came back despite not being asked to do much more then stand in the corner and hit a shot. We're asking ET to do a lot for us and he's done well considering he's playing with Sloan and Mahimi who suck.
    The ball sticking in people's hands is a problem. ET's skill set adds to that problem, while Danny's skill set helps alleviate that problem. To put it another way, the Pacers have too many chefs and not enough cooks. ET is a chef.

    Is this the main cause for the problems? No, but it adds to them.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  22. #13

    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Bird was wrong, and those of us saying it was because of how Granger and Lance were being use were right.
    Well if the validation of your point is Danny's numbers with the Clippers than exuse me if I call that a nonsensical agrument.

    Danny is playing well simply becuase he is playing next to players who can get him an open look. Nothing more and nothing less.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Danny is playing well simply becuase he is playing next to players who can get him an open look. Nothing more and nothing less.
    That's what some of thought was going to happen when Danny played with the bench unit, being led by Lance.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Evan's EFG is another stat where he is much higher. Dunno if it's meaningful or not, but it's true.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Well if the validation of your point is Danny's numbers with the Clippers than exuse me if I call that a nonsensical agrument.

    Danny is playing well simply becuase he is playing next to players who can get him an open look. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Have you watched DG play with the Clippers? Yes he is playing in an up-tempo system and with a PG that delivers the ball, but they are using him off screens, and in post up situations. They are calling plays for him that aren't much different than what we ran for him here. He's finally got his legs under him, and he's making the most of his opportunities.

    The facts are, Danny was obviously misused here and wasn't quite dead as many posters suggested. Maybe he got off to a slow start here, and has just picked it up in LA, but don't discredit the fact that he's playing well because he's playing with players who get him the ball in position to score. I mean what the hell is Doc Rivers doing getting Danny some open looks?!? Ohh the tragedy
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 03-26-2014 at 09:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    That's what some of thought was going to happen when Danny played with the bench unit, being led by Lance.
    And exactly what happened for about the first 10 to 15 games after Granger came back.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Evan's EFG is another stat where he is much higher. Dunno if it's meaningful or not, but it's true.
    Turner knows he shouldn't be taking many threes, so he tends to take higher percentage shots. Not a bad thing at all. Knowing your limitations is something I highly value in a player, which Turner for the most part seems to know. I have nothing against Turner, this isn't about how I view Turner as a player. I like him as a potential 6th man type.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Turner knows he shouldn't be taking many threes, so he tends to take higher percentage shots. Not a bad thing at all. Knowing your limitations is something I highly value in a player, which Turner for the most part seems to know. I have nothing against Turner, this isn't about how I view Turner as a player. I like him as a potential 6th man type.
    I do too. It seems to me Turner isn't yet comfortable in Indiana. A lot of his movements and attempts seem awkward or forced.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    U forgot something:

    Pacers W-L record w/Danny Granger 30-9 .769
    Pacers W-L record w/Evan Turner 9-7 .562
    Naw. I think you forgot something. Danny did not play 39 games for the Pacers this year. He played 29 and his time on the court had almost no impact on the record either way.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Granger could return to the Indiana Pacers and you would find that his production would be the same as the day he left. Evan Turner averaged over 17ppg for the Sixers and the same is true for him. His numbers are down with the Pacers as well.

    The fact is, our offense is a big part of the reason you see this. Also, like it or not, the Pacers have had a target on their backs most of this season having the best or one of the best records in the league. We are indeed getting every team's best shot every night. That may be waning soon if this keeps up...

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Actually Granger played great when he first came back. Just prior to Lance starting to play for himself over playing for the team, in fact I believe Lance's success playing with Granger is part of what prompted that. The problem with the trade was that it didn't actually address any issues on this team. It was at best a lateral move for a different skill set. It did nothing to improve this team at all this season. Nothing in Turner's advance statistics suggested he would be better than he has been while here, absolutely nothing. Nothing happening on the court suggested that Granger was a problem, unless you somehow think Orlando was a better player and 3 point threat than Granger. The problem with this team was never the skill sets or the talent the players on the court had. It was all about how the players on the court were using them, more specifically how Lance and Paul were using them. Granger is a great team player, and is proving that he can still produce just fine in LA right now. Bird was wrong, and those of us saying it was because of how Granger and Lance were being use were right.
    You're dead on with this but being right doesn't make things any better. We should have never traded Granger and although he isn't the sole reason we're playing like we are now, losing Granger is a bigger factor on this team chemistry then anyone wants to admit. As basketball players go I think Granger and Turner are on the same level but we need what Granger brings much more then we need what Turner brings. Granger was traded because Bird honestly thought Turner would be an upgrade but he isn't. It wouldn't matter who we brought in for our bench if they didn't get enough minutes or shot opportunities to contribute. Granger wasn't used right here and Turner isn't being used right either. Both players deserve 25+ minutes but I'd like to see that at 30 and although it doesn't make any sense for Vogel to play PG and Lance 40 minutes in most of the games he's done it in, Vogel won't change this. If we want a bench player to light it up then the offense needs to run through that player, but that can never happen with Lance on the floor making himself option 1,2 & 3 until he dribbles the clock down to 2 tenths of a second and dumps the ball off. Lance has a negative impact on the players around him when he plays with the second unit.
    I never wanted a trade at all but if Bird felt he had to make a change then I think he moved the wrong player. None of that matters now. We have 11 games to go and somehow Vogel has to find a way to get this team to play with chemistry. While he's at it, it would be nice if he'd take the team back from Lance and Paul which might help the chemistry anyway.

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  39. #23
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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    You're dead on with this but being right doesn't make things any better. We should have never traded Granger and although he isn't the sole reason we're playing like we are now, losing Granger is a bigger factor on this team chemistry then anyone wants to admit. As basketball players go I think Granger and Turner are on the same level but we need what Granger brings much more then we need what Turner brings. Granger was traded because Bird honestly thought Turner would be an upgrade but he isn't. It wouldn't matter who we brought in for our bench if they didn't get enough minutes or shot opportunities to contribute. Granger wasn't used right here and Turner isn't being used right either. Both players deserve 25+ minutes but I'd like to see that at 30 and although it doesn't make any sense for Vogel to play PG and Lance 40 minutes in most of the games he's done it in, Vogel won't change this. If we want a bench player to light it up then the offense needs to run through that player, but that can never happen with Lance on the floor making himself option 1,2 & 3 until he dribbles the clock down to 2 tenths of a second and dumps the ball off. Lance has a negative impact on the players around him when he plays with the second unit.
    I never wanted a trade at all but if Bird felt he had to make a change then I think he moved the wrong player. None of that matters now. We have 11 games to go and somehow Vogel has to find a way to get this team to play with chemistry. While he's at it, it would be nice if he'd take the team back from Lance and Paul which might help the chemistry anyway.

    damn good post. so much in between detail here it deserves the credit due. without going into the detail this post deserves levoy allen is still undervalued as a 3rd big. maybe Bird thought these guys were all about winning a BANNER not hanging out after the games.


    Heat game will prove this teams character.

  40. #24

    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    I think this shows that Granger was not the problem. The Pacers' offense was, and is still the problem.

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    Default Re: Granger - Turner

    Evan's game would be pretty entertaining if he didn't play for the team I root for.

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