Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 1
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous template Next
  • #1

    Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

    Seems like even the Pacers know they have chemistry problems and this article echos this here:


    CHICAGO -- Somewhere along the path to a magical season the Indiana Pacers lost their innocence. Now they're losing their way.

    Monday night the Chicago Bulls beat the Pacers with one of their signature defense-based wins 89-77, avenging a loss in Indianapolis last week. It was the seventh time in the last 12 games the Pacers have gone down. Previously, they'd lost seven times over a span of 28 games. They didn't even have their seventh loss of the season until Jan. 8.


    The losses themselves are just a symptom, albeit a painful one, of a team that is struggling to deal with its new place in league's ecosystem. The transition from upstart to underdog was enjoyable for the Pacers over the last few seasons and especially early this season when they were the darlings of the NBA after a fantastic start.

    But life as the hunted has not agreed with them. It shows all over their faces and all over their games.
    "We started off this season so great and we were excited for the end," Pacers star Paul George said. "But we forgot about the middle and the middle is the toughest part."


    As this season has matured, the Pacers' environment has come under assault from opponents they can both see and can't see, from both inside and outside of their organization. Most of this is part of the process -- many teams before them have tasted the same set of developing challenges they didn't always see coming.


    But the Pacers have so far been slow to readjust their comfort zones. Instead, they've been slowly getting frustrated with each other in the classic mode of a team that is underachieving.


    It started from the outside. Teams the Pacers had gotten used to rolling over started to fight back. Earlier this month, for example, they struggled over a week to get three wins over league dregs the Milwaukee Bucks, Utah Jazz and Boston Celtics. They weren't ready for those teams to get up for them, weren't used to seeing teams look one way on film and another when they play like the No. 1 team in the conference.
    "These teams are coming at us with great force regardless of their record," Pacers coach Frank Vogel said at the time. "These teams are playing above themselves against us."


    It's also come from social media and the internet, where Pacers players have become the targets of tabloid stories recently. Not only has it been distracting but it's also been stunning. Unaccustomed to such negative attention, they'd sort of gotten used to no attention at all.


    Last season, Roy Hibbert mocked media members for not paying attention when he barely showed up on the Defensive Player of the Year ballots despite his dominance. This year, Hibbert is a strong candidate to win the award but he his poor games don't go unnoticed as they once did.


    Saturday he was outplayed by Marc Gasol in a loss in Memphis when he had four points and no rebounds. Monday he was outplayed by Joakim Noah, who almost had another triple-double while Hibbert had three points and just five rebounds.


    Now, when he gets fouls the opposing crowds cheer. When he got his fourth foul and had to leave the game Monday, Noah when on one of his clapping and stomping routines because he was proud the Bulls had forced Hibbert from the floor. That wasn't happening in the recent past.
    "I think we've had difficulty handling the success," Hibbert said.


    Then there are the internal issues, the natural byproduct of a struggling and underachieving team. Team president Larry Bird has used both words and actions to express what he thinks about his team and it's clearly upset things, which may have been his intent.


    Several Pacers players have pointed to February when things started turning for them, a month when Bird signed Andrew Bynum and traded long-tenured Danny Granger for Evan Turner in an effort to bolster the roster heading into the playoffs. The Pacers' players, however, were stunned by both moves. Granger's departure was treated like a mini-funeral.


    "Larry is the man is charge," Hibbert said. "He made the decisions and we have to go out on the floor and figure it out."


    Then, two weeks ago, Bird lashed out publicly at his players and his coach. Vogel has built a reputation for being positive, sometimes coming off as downright cocky. He has an air of assurance about him that he's passed to his players, the sort of vigor that had them talking about getting the No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference back in the first days of the season.


    But Bird targeted that method with some stinging words to the Indianapolis Star.

    "I'm sort of going to Frank's side because he's had so much success by staying positive," Bird told the paper. "We do have to stay the course. But I also think he's got to start going after guys when they're not doing what they're supposed to do. And stay on them, whether you've got to take them out of the game when they're not doing what they're supposed to do, or limit their minutes. I will say, he hasn't done that enough."


    Vogel has changed the lineups and reduced some players' minutes, and he's been missing some of his trademark swagger lately. Well known for calling out other teams for antics -- he once labeled the Miami Heat as floppers -- he's now more likely to issue "no comments" and move on. Behind the scenes, sources say, he has been challenging players more in the wake of Bird's comments but Vogel declined to discuss such conversations.
    Bird followed it up by attacking some of his players' focus when he said: "Sometimes, I think, they're not 100 percent committed to their jobs."


    The Hall of Famer has his reasons for attempting such motivational tactics. Certainly he's said many of the same things privately to the players and coaches.
    But so far, it has not produced the desired effect.
    "We've been dead on the court lately and that's not us," George said. "We used to be a team that played with a lot of energy and played with fun out there but we've lost that along the way."


    Though its defense has been a little less consistent than desired in the second half of the season, what is causing the team the most angst is its offense. In losses to the Grizzlies and Bulls in the last few days, the Pacers have failed to crack 80 points in back-to-back games for the first time in seven years.
    There are slumps abounding. Over the last 15 games, Hibbert is averaging just nine points and shooting just 44 percent. After he shot 56 percent in February, David West is shooting just 46 percent in March. George is shooting just 37 percent in March and averaging 19 points, well below his season average.


    It's also not hard to miss how annoyed some Pacers are with Lance Stephenson, the young sparkplug guard who was a huge key to their early season. Stephenson has four triple-doubles this season but at times he's been too focused on getting those stats, robbing rebounds from teammates and generating some frustration. Other times he flat-out hogs the ball. And while this happens with many players on every team, the tolerance for the younger and rougher Stephenson is much less than for the veterans elsewhere on the roster. On Monday, Stephenson had no assists and four turnovers in 30 minutes in the loss. When he drops his head and ignores open teammates, heads shake and shoulders slump visibly. After averaging nearly six assists a game in the season's first three months, Stephenson is averaging only three assists over the last two months.


    "We have [guys trying to be heroes] at times and we choose the wrong moment at times," George said.
    When the Pacers talk about offensive problems, they always default to lack of ball movement. No one on the team stops the ball like Stephenson, who enjoys the status of being one of Bird's favorite players.
    None of these issues are original; it happens to every team in the league. But with the Pacers, they'd lived the charmed existence of overachieving for so long that they forgot about some of them.


    Nothing is fractured beyond repair; they still have all their goals in front of them. They will likely clinch the Central Division title within a week. If they can beat the Heat at home on Wednesday -- and things haven't wavered much at home, where the team is 32-4 -- they'll have a two-game lead for first in the East on Miami plus the tiebreaker with just 10 games to play.


    But there's no doubt things are different now and there are fewer smiles. That's life at this level in the NBA, and the Pacers need to start getting used to it.

    "We need to go out there and play for each other like we were doing in the first half of the season. It seems like we're doing that about one out of every six games right now," Hibbert said. "We're great off the court, a family atmosphere but on the court it seems like we're not clicking and we should be clicking at this time of the year."
    http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...lenging-pacers
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

    Great article. If the guys are speaking the truth then this is very reassuring. If they truly are a family atmosphere off the court then they can surely work it out on the court.
    Originally posted by IrishPacer
    Empty vessels make the most noise.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

      Lots of things in here that actually give a basis for the issues, rather than just speculation. Good to see it.
      BillS

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

        Really interesting seeing the Lance assist numbers have been cut in half the 2nd half of the season. This really speaks volumes to the frustration he seems to be building with him teammates. Early in the season he would have some possessions where he would over-dribble and shoot a bad shot here and there, but the team and fans were able to live with it because more often than not he was trying to use his ball-handling to facilitate or to get to the rim where he is a great finisher. I'm not sure why he seems to have become a fairly selfish player the last few months. Not sure if it was his attempted bid for an all-star run where he noticeably tried to score more or that he has just gotten over confident in his jump shot now, but he seems to facilitate and attack the rim far less and over-dribbles into far too many jumpers these days. When we were at our best it was because both he and PG were playing at a high level on a very consistent basis. That consistency is all but gone as PG has become wildly inconsistent the last few months and Lance has returned to "Wild Card" Lance where you don't really know what you are getting from him for the better or for the worse each night.
        Last edited by VideoVandal; 03-25-2014, 09:30 AM.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

          This, this


          It's also not hard to miss how annoyed some Pacers are with Lance Stephenson, the young sparkplug guard who was a huge key to their early season. Stephenson has four triple-doubles this season but at times he's been too focused on getting those stats, robbing rebounds from teammates and generating some frustration. Other times he flat-out hogs the ball. And while this happens with many players on every team, the tolerance for the younger and rougher Stephenson is much less than for the veterans elsewhere on the roster. On Monday, Stephenson had no assists and four turnovers in 30 minutes in the loss. When he drops his head and ignores open teammates, heads shake and shoulders slump visibly. After averaging nearly six assists a game in the season's first three months, Stephenson is averaging only three assists over the last two months.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

            When did Roy say this, anyone know?:

            "We need to go out there and play for each other like we were doing in the first half of the season. It seems like we're doing that about one out of every six games right now," Hibbert said. "We're great off the court, a family atmosphere but on the court it seems like we're not clicking and we should be clicking at this time of the year."

            This sounds like it's repairable and maybe fairly quickly. I felt like maybe the fracture was deeper and spilling to off the court too.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Daily Dime Pacers Struggles

              As this continues, it is becoming more apparent that Larry Bird needs to do what he probably does best - express his brand of no-nonsense leadership from the top down.

              First, Larry needs to sit down with the coaching staff and reset their vision for the team. Mind you, he should have an open dialogue with them regarding their individual thoughts as well, but at the end of the day he needs to realign their thought process and prepare them for success in taking the team back to an elite level through better discipline and accountability.

              Then, Larry needs to sit Lance down and tell him how it's going to be. Stop the hero ball Rucker play and get his teammates involved and that once they realize he is back to playing that way that he will benefit too because the game will become easier for everybody. He also needs to reassure him that he will get paid just as well, if not better, if he becomes a team player who makes the team move better instead of forcing things himself as much and going for stats in his contract year.

              Next, Larry also needs to sit down with PG and counsel him on letting his play do the talking, stop woofing at the officials, and let the game come to him more than he does.

              Yes, he needs to pretty much sit down individually with all of the starters and define his expectations for each of them as individuals as well as within the team concept. He needs to reiterate what he was thinking when he signed Bynum. He needs to restate why he felt it was important to trade Danny for Turner, why he believes it was (and still is) the right thing to do and sell why it will benefit the team as well as everybody individually.

              Finally, he needs to have a mandatory all-inclusive meeting with the entire roster and coaching staff and make sure everybody is truly on the same page with his expectations, what he feels is good about the team, and what is going to change. He needs to let them all know what will no longer be tolerated and what the consequences will be for not complying, whether they happen during the season or if they will simply result in getting other guys that want to do what it takes to bring a championship to the Pacers.

              In this way, Larry can be the ultimate basis for the team discipline and accountability, and can be the "bad cop", thereby refreshing the effectiveness of Vogel's "good cop" positivity. I am not sure Larry actually wants this to happen, I believe he wants Vogel to simply get tougher, but I don't think that would make the players get back to wanting to run through walls for Frank like they used to.

              Comment

              Previous template Next
              Working...
              X