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Thread: Uncle Buck speaks....

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    No, I got sick of arguing my point because people are gonna believe what they believe. I actually asked if it could of been Paul he was talking about, but he was just being careful about sounding like he talked about Paul, but I never got an answer on that one. Paul's role has changed as much as Lances role if you ask me.
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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    No, I got sick of arguing my point because people are gonna believe what they believe. I actually asked if it could of been Paul he was talking about, but he was just being careful about sounding like he talked about Paul, but I never got an answer on that one. Paul's role has changed as much as Lances role if you ask me.
    Which is why Roy mentioned PG by name and said he wasn't talking about him..... You're right, people will believe what they believe, regardless of all the other information staring them in the face.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    PG is taking about 2 more shots per game than he did last year.

    Lance - about 4 more.
    He's taking 3 more, and missing 60% of them. Lance is taking 4 more and hitting 50% of them.

    George Hill is down 3 shots a game.

    Edit: you're right, more like 2 more, but still they are mostly misses.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 03-26-2014 at 10:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    I'm hoping that their raw instincts kick in tonight and that everything falls into place. Our entire existence revolves around playing the Heat, so hopefully things start clicking once the game starts. My biggest worry is that PG gets sucked into trying to outdo LeBron 1 on 1 on national TV.

    If Hibbert doesn't produce tonight, then I'll really be worried given his recent history of playing well against them.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Which is why Roy mentioned PG by name and said he wasn't talking about him..... You're right, people will believe what they believe, regardless of all the other information staring them in the face.
    Look at PGs shooting percentage. That's all the evidence you need.

    If Lance was shooting that percentage I bet you would use that as your smoking gun as to why he should be benched. But PG gets a pass.

    Again, he never said Lance by name. That isn't much evidence.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Look at PGs shooting percentage. That's all the evidence you need.

    If Lance was shooting that percentage I bet you would use that as your smoking gun as to why he should be benched. But PG gets a pass.
    I bet not, because FG% doesn't represent what you're trying to say it represents. Hell, I agreed with Sollozzo about Lance's assist numbers not representing how much he passes, and at least that stat is directly tied into passing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Again, he never said Lance by name. That isn't much evidence.
    Then who was he talking about? Can't be any of the bench players, considering none of them were on the team last year.

    So we're left with 4 options. Roy said two of them weren't who he was talking about, so that leaves Lance and GHill.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    He's taking 3 more, and missing 60% of them. Lance is taking 4 more and hitting 50% of them.

    George Hill is down 3 shots a game.
    17 - 15 = 2. but whatever.

    And I suppose while we're discussing Lance - anyone else notice the lack of attention he pays during timeouts ?? He's checking the scoreboard, cheerleaders, timeout entertainment - pretty much anything other than what's being diagrammed or talked about in the huddle. Then goes out, has no idea what the other 4 are trying to do, goes into playground mode, tosses up some shot - and the other 4 drop their heads, slump their shoulders and I'm sure - mutter 'F'in Lance' under their breath.

    yeah - that can P someone off.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    He's taking 3 more, and missing 60% of them. Lance is taking 4 more and hitting 50% of them.

    George Hill is down 3 shots a game.

    Edit: you're right, more like 2 more, but still they are mostly misses.
    But Paul George is getting to the line at a much higher clip, and making them at a much better clip, and shooting more and making more from the 3 point line than Lance is. So...

    Paul George is scoring 4.4 points per game more on 2.1 extra shots per game. He's scoring 2.1 points per extra attempt.
    Lance is scoring 5.4 points per game more on 3.7 extra shots per game. He is only scoring 1.5 points per extra attempt.

    Say what you will about field goal percentage, but Paul is still the overall more efficient scorer. (Also, their overall points per shot are closer...1.28 vs. 1.24 with Paul again ahead. But my main point was that Paul's extra shots this year compared to last year are not a problem.)
    Last edited by aamcguy; 03-26-2014 at 11:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    They don't mean much of anything.

    They don't factor in that the offense is totally different this year. PG is taking many more shots that he wasn't taking last year.

    If George Hill needs more shots, they should come from PG, who is taking the most and shooting the worst. Lance hasn't taken away from Hill, Paul George has.
    Usage% is a stat you would absolutely point to if you were saying "the offense has changed" because it shows quite clearly that Lance's usage has skyrocketed this year, which means he's been seeing a LOT more of the ball. It means he's stepping into the role of the #2 guy on the team.

    I find it to be the most literal advanced stat there is, and incredibly helpful when trying to determine who is getting touches and who isn't within an offense. When paired with things like eFG%, and TOV%, you can start to see if a player who has, say, a 20+ usg% is helping the team with his FG% and turnover rate or if his role should be reduced because his numbers are coming at the expense of playing winning baasketball.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    ORLANDO JOHNSON IS NOT WALKING THROUGH THAT DOOR!

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    With Hill playing a significant role last year we were not good enough to win a title. And we are trying to win a title. Lance has a different skill set, that we lacked in the playoffs last year, and that is why he has a larger role. His assist numbers may have dropped from early in the season but he is a much better player with the ball than George Hill is.
    Pretty sure we got to within a game of being in the NBA finals. We lost, yes, but we were good enough to win..we just didn't do it. Lance does have a different skill set, and it'll be interesting to see if we have as much success in the playoffs as we did last year with Lance in a more prominent role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Even last year in Lances first season starting he was the key to our success. One of Miamis adjustments in the playoffs was to put LBJ on Lance. That's a pretty big sign of respect, and shows who they were worried about. Would they do that for George Hill? Never.
    Uhh pretty sure they put Lebron on Lance to give him a rest from guarding PG. Lance had a HORRIBLE series offensively against the Heat last year (8.8 pts on just under 34% shooting) I'm pretty sure they weren't worried about Lance too much last year in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    That door or any other door of an NBA team these days...

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I strongly disagree.

    If he can do it, then why doesn't he put on his nikes and just do it? He handles the ball more than anyone on the team. He has been encouraged over and over to be more aggressive. So what's the problem? He gets the offense into their sets most of the time.

    With Hill playing a significant role last year we were not good enough to win a title. And we are trying to win a title. Lance has a different skill set, that we lacked in the playoffs last year, and that is why he has a larger role. His assist numbers may have dropped from early in the season but he is a much better player with the ball than George Hill is.

    Even last year in Lances first season starting he was the key to our success. One of Miamis adjustments in the playoffs was to put LBJ on Lance. That's a pretty big sign of respect, and shows who they were worried about. Would they do that for George Hill? Never.

    Hill is a role player, Lance is a cornerstone type of guy.
    How can you disagree with statistics?

    I don't know why he doesn't. He has shown plenty of times he is capable, but something about his personality and/or the coach holds him back. I think it is mostly because he isn't a selfish player, he tries to play within the team and do what he is supposed to do, so he doesn't play to his maximum ability. Which at the current point in time his maximum ability is higher than Lance's.

    By the way, the switched Lebron to Lance so that Lebron didn't have to guard they guy he was guarding. It had everything to do with allow Lebron to help out because Lance is a sub-par three point shooter. Right now, we would have a tough time getting out of the first round with Lance taking a larger role.

    If Lance is a cornerstone guy why is this team not player better as his role in the half-court offense has increases? Neither Lance or Hill are number one options. Lance is at best a 6th man type scorer, and not an elite one at that. Hill is better as a starter, and second or third option. Lance does bring things to this team that helps them to be better, but he isn't bringing them anymore. That is the problem. It doesn't matter what he did last year, or early in the year, cause he isn't doing those things anymore. He is playing selfishly, and like an idiot. For some reason Vogel is being soft on him.

    If you don't understand this, I suggest you go study some film.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    How can you disagree with statistics?

    I don't know why he doesn't. He has shown plenty of times he is capable, but something about his personality and/or the coach holds him back. I think it is mostly because he isn't a selfish player, he tries to play within the team and do what he is supposed to do, so he doesn't play to his maximum ability. Which at the current point in time his maximum ability is higher than Lance's.

    By the way, the switched Lebron to Lance so that Lebron didn't have to guard they guy he was guarding. It had everything to do with allow Lebron to help out because Lance is a sub-par three point shooter. Right now, we would have a tough time getting out of the first round with Lance taking a larger role.

    If Lance is a cornerstone guy why is this team not player better as his role in the half-court offense has increases? Neither Lance or Hill are number one options. Lance is at best a 6th man type scorer, and not an elite one at that. Hill is better as a starter, and second or third option. Lance does bring things to this team that helps them to be better, but he isn't bringing them anymore. That is the problem. It doesn't matter what he did last year, or early in the year, cause he isn't doing those things anymore. He is playing selfishly, and like an idiot. For some reason Vogel is being soft on him.

    If you don't understand this, I suggest you go study some film.
    No. PG is the one playing like an idiot. Refusing to pass the ball and chuck up 3's when he cannot shoot the basketball
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Wait so Paul George is saying cutting Orlando is the cause of all this trouble, how could we never see his importance to this team. :shakeshead:

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Why can't PG man up and take responsibility for sucking. Why is he brining up former teammates? Would Tim Duncan ever make excuses like these?
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Wait so Paul George is saying cutting Orlando is the cause of all this trouble, how could we never see his importance to this team. :shakeshead:
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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Why can't PG man up and take responsibility for sucking. Why is he brining up former teammates? Would Tim Duncan ever make excuses like these?


    One player said they need to get better basketball IQs and quit making dumb decisions, while another player said that the Knicks were taking away the pass and forcing them into playing one-on-one.

    One is PG, one is Lance. I'll let you decide which player goes with which thought.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Those early proclamations about PG being better than Reggie seem kind of silly now. Reggie thrives in the spotlight and PG(so far) has done the opposite since he was hyped as one of the best players and the pressure was turned up.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Wait so Paul George is saying cutting Orlando is the cause of all this trouble, how could we never see his importance to this team. :shakeshead:
    Wait, what? A 140-character simplification of an interview in which PG mentions OJ and Danny and this is what you think he said exactly?

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Never underestimate the importance of the pre-game huddle hype man!
    Most important man on the team right there!

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    How can you disagree with statistics?

    I don't know why he doesn't. He has shown plenty of times he is capable, but something about his personality and/or the coach holds him back. I think it is mostly because he isn't a selfish player, he tries to play within the team and do what he is supposed to do, so he doesn't play to his maximum ability. Which at the current point in time his maximum ability is higher than Lance's.

    By the way, the switched Lebron to Lance so that Lebron didn't have to guard they guy he was guarding. It had everything to do with allow Lebron to help out because Lance is a sub-par three point shooter. Right now, we would have a tough time getting out of the first round with Lance taking a larger role.

    If Lance is a cornerstone guy why is this team not player better as his role in the half-court offense has increases? Neither Lance or Hill are number one options. Lance is at best a 6th man type scorer, and not an elite one at that. Hill is better as a starter, and second or third option. Lance does bring things to this team that helps them to be better, but he isn't bringing them anymore. That is the problem. It doesn't matter what he did last year, or early in the year, cause he isn't doing those things anymore. He is playing selfishly, and like an idiot. For some reason Vogel is being soft on him.

    If you don't understand this, I suggest you go study some film.
    WE ARE! we've already eclipsed our win total last year. We were on pace to win 70 games through the first half of the year. We still could win 60.

    That would be a 10 win increase.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Never underestimate the importance of the pre-game huddle hype man!
    I knew there's been that certain something missing with this franchise since Mark Pope left!
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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    WE ARE! we've already eclipsed our win total last year. We were on pace to win 70 games through the first half of the year. We still could win 60.

    That would be a 10 win increase.
    We were on pace to win 70 games when Lance was still playing his glue guy role, not the prominent scoring option role. As Lance has played more selfishly our record has slowly gotten worse and worse. Why is it so hard for you to understand what we are saying? Everything is right there out on the court if you pay attention to what is going on. You see how the other players get frustrated with him, you see how he has changed how he plays within the half court. It is all right there for anyone to see, so why do you refuse to see it? Because someone who has a good FG% can't possibly be the source of chemistry problems? That is some pretty poor logic, and shows a lack of understand if you truly believe such a thing.

    Stats are a great tool, I am all about them, but there are some things that they just don't measure very well. One of those is how well a player plays within a team concept. Lance hasn't been doing a good job of that since early January, and seems to get worse and worse as time goes on.

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    Default Re: Uncle Buck speaks....p

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    We were on pace to win 70 games when Lance was still playing his glue guy role, not the prominent scoring option role. As Lance has played more selfishly our record has slowly gotten worse and worse. Why is it so hard for you to understand what we are saying? Everything is right there out on the court if you pay attention to what is going on. You see how the other players get frustrated with him, you see how he has changed how he plays within the half court. It is all right there for anyone to see, so why do you refuse to see it? Because someone who has a good FG% can't possibly be the source of chemistry problems? That is some pretty poor logic, and shows a lack of understand if you truly believe such a thing.

    Stats are a great tool, I am all about them, but there are some things that they just don't measure very well. One of those is how well a player plays within a team concept. Lance hasn't been doing a good job of that since early January, and seems to get worse and worse as time goes on.
    When did I say he wasn't a PART of the problem? That has never happened.

    He isn't THE problem. That's all. I've really said and a group of fans who claim they don't blame him for everything just can't stand it, lol.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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