Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 44 of 44

Thread: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

  1. #26

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ridiculous. Frank is a players' coach. He devises his defensive and offensive schemes to fit the talents of his players. He does not force his players to play within a set scheme that they don't have the talents to thrive.

    If we had a Wall or Rondo, I would bet my house that the approach to our offense and distributing the ball would be much different than it is presently.

    I believe that your dislike of Vogel has tainted your perspective.
    Yea Vogel really got the best out of Gerald Green, Miles Plumlee, D J Augustine by playing to their strengths. Our bench never developes because Vogel has no clue how to use his players. That is why our bench always struggle. We have very talented players on that bench and they are 26th in the league in bench scoring.

  2. #27
    PD Magician Magic P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,906

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    All I know is Hill better be off my team next season or is the starting or backup 2 guard because having him play the one is hurting our offense.

  3. #28
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,002

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The problem with this is that you just used 3 of the greatest wing players ever as an example. Paul George is not and will never be on their level.

    That is by no means a knock on PG, but those other guys are the exception, not the rule.
    You believe in Lance Stephenson, though, don't you? You believe that he can reach that level. It doesn't really matter if it's Paul George or Lance Stephenson. One of them has to become our floor general.

    Look, this team with this core will never become a point guard-led team. We don't have the personnel for it. Frankly, the most efficient system for our current personnel would be the Triangle or a variation of it. We have two post-up bigs that can pass the ball, a 20+ PPG scorer on the wing (PG) and guards that can shoot the 3 (Hill) and attack the rim (Lance). We were a power post team last year that played through its bigs and its wings and we managed to win a lot of games and push the eventual champs to 7 with that strategy.

    However, we have strayed away from it. We allowed ourselves to become a perimeter-oriented team and that simply doesn't fit our personnel. That's why we're playing bad.

    We need to return to our roots. We need to return to our original philosophy. We need to become smashmouth again.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  5. #29
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    reading some various boards ie heat bulls found posts claiming this very statement. Pacers need a floor general.

    they will figure it out, but i dont really understand it, they make a real effort to give hibbert the ball in the post against the heat but against every other team they dont, and if they really want to be a championship team it will start with roy hibbert not paul george. the stats show roy is inefficent on average for a 7'2 center but i dont think hes given the ball in the right spots on most occassions. Watching him play its clear he is skilled can step out to shoot the jumper a little and knows how to use his body + has some moves in the post.


    if they cant figure out how to get him involved against teams with size they wont win the chip even if they beat the heat, i think next season they will need to look for a legit floor general george hill is a nice player but hes not what they need at the pg and is better suited as a backup player. With a real pg the offense wont be so lost, less turnovers and guys like david west, roy hibbert will be consistent threats and lance stephenson wont be a guy that can single handley cost them a game with his decision making. In addition paul george wouldnt have the green like to jack up 22 shots- hes just not that kind of offensive talent
    Yeah I've felt for a long time that they needed a point guard. I thought that they'd try harder to go after Rondo but felt for sure that they'd make a run at Andre Miller when he was on the block. George Hill is a good player but not a great point guard.

    Lance is not a point guard either. The purest point on our team right now is most lilkey Evan Turner. He knows how to get guys good looks. Some who say GHILL should be demoted I would not really argue except for the fact I believe the rotations work better with Lance in the 2nd unit than GHILL.

    GHILL was never this bad when Lance was a 5th option last year. If there are any chemistry issues involving Lance move him to the bench and let him flourish in that role. Scolas not playing well and I believe Turner would thrive in our starting lineup.

    I am going out on a limb here and believe Lance wont be back due to $$$ primarily, love to see us work a sign and trade and get Vogel a floor general.

  6. #30
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,957

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    If this team continues to slide, then a major overhaul of our backcourt needs to be made all together. Either Hill or Lance needs to be moved because they're the easiest and make the most sense to move. Hill does a lot of things fairly well, but offers little to no passing as a starting pointguard in the association. Lance at times makes plays of pure passing brilliance, but too often than not, will make the selfish or the failed flashy play. It's a shame because in theory, the Hill and Lance backcourt should really complement each other. When things were going well, it did.
    Last edited by PR07; 03-31-2014 at 01:08 AM.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to PR07 For This Useful Post:


  8. #31

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    i just want Hill to be aggressive, he doesn't have to score, but do a little penetration and kick out, or probe the defense, most of the time we just hot potato the ball around the perimeter.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to immortality For This Useful Post:


  10. #32

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Hill is playing in no man's land right now. He's a man without a real role or purpose on this team.

    He's basically a scoring guard playing point guard. Which you can get away with if that player guards the hell out of the opponent's point guard and scores. Hill is doing neither of late. His game is completely passive right now, and I've taken to calling him "Aw Shucks" when he plays like this, which he has been prone to do at points this season.

    One of the larger problems is that the team used to be able to get away with him just being super defensive-minded, stonewalling the opponent PG, and not focusing as much on offense, because the overall defensive intensity and defense-into-offense was much stronger. But now, this team has regressed in overall defense, Hill has been a part of that, and it's not enough to justify his game.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dr. Hibbert For This Useful Post:


  12. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,024

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    i just want Hill to be aggressive, he doesn't have to score, but do a little penetration and kick out, or probe the defense, most of the time we just hot potato the ball around the perimeter.
    Agreed. Hill is kind of like Bruce Banner, and aggressive Hill is kind of like The Hulk. We don't see aggressive Hill all that often, but when we do he looks like the best most complete offensive player on the team. If we want to have a top 10 offense the key is to get Hill to be aggressive, and be more than just an after thought.

  13. #34
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,957

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Maybe Lance and Hill are too good for their modest roles?

    If this were a chocolate pie, with each of our starting 5 getting a piece, Hill would've just given up his piece and Lance would be taking spoonfuls of chocolate pudding out of Roy's and West's.

  14. #35
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,214

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    After the year he had last year, I actually expected a bit of a breakout season for Hill this year. Unfortunately for him the emergence of Lance has relegated George to trying to be the "glue" guy within the unit. Unfortunately for him, he has no idea on how to do this. Hill is a scorer, not a stand at the 3pt line, spot up shooter. He needs the ball in his hands and he needs to have the green light to be aggressive.

    In his time here he's gone from 6th man, to starting pg, to 2nd perimeter offensive option (last season) to 5th option glue guy. But, no matter his role within the team--our offense has ALWAYS worked best when he's aggressively looking to score. He's trying to play "point guard" and be unselfish, but it's only hurting himself as well as the rest of the team. There are times that I wish Vogel would just bring him off the bench so that he's able to be utilized better, because right now he's an afterthought offensively...which is a shame, and poor utilization of his offensive talent.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  16. #36
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,214

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Maybe Lance and Hill are too good for their modest roles?

    If this were a chocolate pie, with each of our starting 5 getting a piece, Hill would've just given up his piece and Lance would be taking spoonfuls of chocolate pudding out of Roy's and West's.
    I think our starting lineup is missing that "glue guy". The guy who plays hard defensively, moves the ball offensively, and takes open shots when they're available. This was Lance's role last year, and Paul's role the year before. Hill is trying to be that guy, but it doesn't fit his game nearly as well

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  18. #37

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    After the year he had last year, I actually expected a bit of a breakout season for Hill this year. Unfortunately for him the emergence of Lance has relegated George to trying to be the "glue" guy within the unit. Unfortunately for him, he has no idea on how to do this. Hill is a scorer, not a stand at the 3pt line, spot up shooter. He needs the ball in his hands and he needs to have the green light to be aggressive.

    In his time here he's gone from 6th man, to starting pg, to 2nd perimeter offensive option (last season) to 5th option glue guy. But, no matter his role within the team--our offense has ALWAYS worked best when he's aggressively looking to score. He's trying to play "point guard" and be unselfish, but it's only hurting himself as well as the rest of the team. There are times that I wish Vogel would just bring him off the bench so that he's able to be utilized better, because right now he's an afterthought offensively...which is a shame, and poor utilization of his offensive talent.
    I'd be intrigued with Watson starting and Hill coming off the bench, honestly. It's probably too late to try it, but I can see why it would work for a number of reasons.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Dr. Hibbert For This Useful Post:


  20. #38
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,555

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd be intrigued with Watson starting and Hill coming off the bench, honestly. It's probably too late to try it, but I can see why it would work for a number of reasons.
    I'd just be intrigued to get Watson back of the bench first. That could fix a whole box of chocolates there.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  22. #39

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It depends on what you mean by saying a "floor general". If you're talking about someone that commands the offense and initiates most of his team plays then sure. Every team has one. If you're talking about a point guard then I disagree.

    The Heat are not commanded by a point guard. They are commanded by Lebron who acts as their floor general.

    The Lakers were not commanded by a point guard. They were commanded by Kobe, Phil and the Triangle.

    The Bulls were not commanded by a point guard. They were commanded by MJ, Phil and the Triangle.

    We don't need a new floor general. Paul George and Lance Stephenson are our floor generals. They just need to act like that more often.
    Your posts are always good for a good laugh. Heat don't need one they have Labron, Lakers don't need one they have Kobe, the Bulls didn't need one they had MJ. You don't even see the common ground their, they had possibly the 3 best wing players of all time. Offensively and defensively, We don't have that and we have nobody who is even close. A true point guard is an extension of the coach on the floor. He understands tempo, clock management, how to get everyone involved and most important leadership. He is not afraid to get into someone's face when they are out of position or control. The coach may try to address that but he cannot go out there and do that for them. This franchise has undervalued that position for a number of years probably back to the Mark Jackson era. It is time to wake up and see the value that position has. You very seldom can teach the traits that are needed to play point, a player either has it or he doesn't. George Hill definitly does not have what it takes. He is a back up combo guard just like Pop used to play him. Play him there and he will help this team, if not get rid of him and stop wasting your time.

  23. #40

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    After the year he had last year, I actually expected a bit of a breakout season for Hill this year. Unfortunately for him the emergence of Lance has relegated George to trying to be the "glue" guy within the unit. Unfortunately for him, he has no idea on how to do this. Hill is a scorer, not a stand at the 3pt line, spot up shooter. He needs the ball in his hands and he needs to have the green light to be aggressive.

    In his time here he's gone from 6th man, to starting pg, to 2nd perimeter offensive option (last season) to 5th option glue guy. But, no matter his role within the team--our offense has ALWAYS worked best when he's aggressively looking to score. He's trying to play "point guard" and be unselfish, but it's only hurting himself as well as the rest of the team. There are times that I wish Vogel would just bring him off the bench so that he's able to be utilized better, because right now he's an afterthought offensively...which is a shame, and poor utilization of his offensive talent.

    He has the green light to be aggressive. Every player does. Being aggressive does not mean just score. It is not in his nature or demeanor. He isn't even close to the player that some people on this board think he is.

  24. #41
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,214

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He has the green light to be aggressive. Every player does. Being aggressive does not mean just score. It is not in his nature or demeanor. He isn't even close to the player that some people on this board think he is.
    That's simply not true..within any context of organized basketball...on any level. Coaches draw plays, players have roles. If everyone had free reign to be aggressive whenever they wanted, then it'd be one big cluster****.

    Hill essentially put up the same stats last year, that Lance (a player pegged to be a potential AS this season) is putting up currently, so he's shown what he can do in this league when given the offensive opportunity.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  26. #42

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's simply not true..within any context of organized basketball...on any level. Coaches draw plays, players have roles. If everyone had free reign to be aggressive whenever they wanted, then it'd be one big cluster****.

    Hill essentially put up the same stats last year, that Lance (a player pegged to be a potential AS this season) is putting up currently, so he's shown what he can do in this league when given the offensive opportunity.
    It is true you could be aggressive pushing the ball, running off picks, defending going to the boards. Asking for permission to be aggressive is just plain rediculous. Also he did not put up the numbers Lance has last year. He never rebounded like Lance and his assists were not as good as Lance. If what you are saying is true then why is the topic half the time that Hill needs to be more aggressive. He just isn't and that is a fact and that is on him. Has nothing to do with running what the coach calls. He also needs to be WAY more aggressive getting thru picks.

  27. #43
    Member TinManJoshua's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,360

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is true you could be aggressive pushing the ball, running off picks, defending going to the boards. Asking for permission to be aggressive is just plain rediculous. Also he did not put up the numbers Lance has last year. He never rebounded like Lance and his assists were not as good as Lance. If what you are saying is true then why is the topic half the time that Hill needs to be more aggressive. He just isn't and that is a fact and that is on him. Has nothing to do with running what the coach calls. He also needs to be WAY more aggressive getting thru picks.
    Not true. At least in terms of quantity. I don't know. Maybe 1 Lance assist is better than 1 Hill assist. Is there a way to measure that?

    Reality time:

    Hill 2013: 4.7 Ast, 1.5 TO.

    Stephenson 2014: 4.6 Ast, 2.7 TO.
    Last edited by TinManJoshua; 03-31-2014 at 05:57 PM.

  28. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,024

    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    There is probably a good reason why Hill is second on this team in win share and win share per 48, as well as having the largest difference between Ortg and Drtg (+15) of anyone receiving significant playing time. He is doing all of this as a glue guy too, and his win shares were even better last season leading the team.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •