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Thread: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

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    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Seems like all the great teams have a specific floor general or leader on the court. Heat obviously have LeBron. Spurs got TP and Duncan. OKC has Durant. Clippers got CP3. In fact every team that has won previous championships all seemed to have a designated floor general on the court.

    Wanted to ask the question who is this Pacers team floor general when the game is on the line that gets the offense set. Statistically Pacers have struggled the previous two seasons offensively. Pacers were last in the league the previous season in A/T ratio. This season 26th overall.


    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...tTurnoverRatio
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...atio/year/2013


    Possibly most alarming is how do we improve the offense if the top priority is only re-signing Lance. The offense has been bad now for two seasons. At what point will a tweek or significant change need to be made in order to improve the offensive efficiency.

    If its not the coach (wanna be clear I am not advocating letting Vogel go) then it has to be the personnel. personally, im a big Hill fan (,maybe not as much at 8M) but I like him more as a combo guard off the bench or possibly sg. not as this teams point.

    I certifiably believe this team has to find a true point guard in order to improve the offensive efficiency and ball movement Coach Vogel is emphasizing. Lance despite the nickname is not ready to be a floor general for an eastern conference title contender.

    These comments may be best left for the upcoming offseason but I don't believe change much even after the Pacers win an NBA TITLE. The offense will still be the primary focus and I believe we can become much more efficient with a true point guard and GHILL as a combo off the bench. Obviously financial issues will be in play and how we can retain Lance but if Turner can be moved if need be via sign and trade I hope we at least consider finding a true floor general.

    otherwise we are going to continue to struggle offensively with turnovers and contested shots.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    I said it when Kendall Marshall was cut that he'd be perfect for this team. He doesn't offer much defensively which does not fit our philosophy, but he makes everyone on his team 10x more dangerous. He would get the ball in the perfect spots for everyone on the roster.

    Granted, I wouldn't want him starting, but I'd love to throw him on the court with our starters, it would be a thing of beauty.

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    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    It depends on what you mean by saying a "floor general". If you're talking about someone that commands the offense and initiates most of his team plays then sure. Every team has one. If you're talking about a point guard then I disagree.

    The Heat are not commanded by a point guard. They are commanded by Lebron who acts as their floor general.

    The Lakers were not commanded by a point guard. They were commanded by Kobe, Phil and the Triangle.

    The Bulls were not commanded by a point guard. They were commanded by MJ, Phil and the Triangle.

    We don't need a new floor general. Paul George and Lance Stephenson are our floor generals. They just need to act like that more often.
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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    In all honesty, I REALLY think Vogel should shake things up a bit and START CJ Watson at point, and have Hill be backup... when CJ comes back from healing his hamstring..

    CJ seems to not only have a consistant shot, but is dangerous outside the arc... He hits everyone in their correct spots, and makes everyone around him better... He just in all seriousness, seems to be able to play the point guard position better than Hill IMO ..
    I honestly believe just that one minor tweak could totally change our offense....
    Last edited by Kemo; 03-24-2014 at 04:50 AM.
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    I agree totally with Nuntius. We don't necessarily need a true PG. We need players that remain aligned with the roles they were playing earlier in the season. I think that Paul and Lance got off-track from roles they played earlier in the season, some times due to opponent's defenses, but mor often not. I personally believe they got a little big for their britches and began assuming way to much responsibility that they were not ready for as opposed to just playing their roles within the offense. If they are just willing to sink back into their proper roles, I believe we will be much better.

    Any further improvements to the offense must be considered and completed in the off-season.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    No. The Pacers need to rediscover their lockdown defensive effort and move the ball more on the offensive end. If/when the mental approach changes enough to allow that to happen the team will be dangerous again.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Evan Turner might be our best option. Paul tries to do it by himself too much. Lance tries to show off and doesn't know his limits. George is too interested in being a SG and defers the responsibility.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Paul and Lance acting like selfish crybabies isn't going to be solved by adding a guy that needs to control the ball to be effective. Because Paul and Lance won't let him

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Getting a better pg won't mean diddly-squat if guys are consistantly missing their shots. I don't think the big problem is guys not getting the ball in their spots; I feel that, for the most part, the problem is either the decision-making and execution once they're there. And sometimes, especially as of late, the ball just going through the net.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Evan Turner might be our best option. Paul tries to do it by himself too much. Lance tries to show off and doesn't know his limits. George is too interested in being a SG and defers the responsibility.
    Whoa whoa whoa. Turner does way too much too, mostly overdribbling, which leads to fastbreak TOs (the worst kind)
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    What we need is discipline and accountability.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Really what we need is for our best player to begin playing like an All-Star again, both offensively and defensively. Once that happens, everything else should fall in line accordingly.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Really what we need is for our best player to begin playing like an All-Star again, both offensively and defensively. Once that happens, everything else should fall in line accordingly.

    The Pacers sure could use point who can break down the defense consistently. I am not sure Bird wants that or believes we can get by with shooting guards who play
    the point.
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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Don't worry...if the Pacers fail to win the championship or fail to make the finals. Bird will make a strong play for Rondo.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    It's the offensive system. The point guard will never ever thrive in the system if Frank Vogel is still coach.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    The Pacers sure could use point who can break down the defense consistently. I am not sure Bird wants that or believes we can get by with shooting guards who play
    the point.
    Fool's gold. Unless your plan is to make the offense revolve around that PG it isn't going to change much.

    Sportsfireman is correct, this team needs discipline. When Paul and Lance play with disciplined fundamentally sound basketball our offense is great. When they don't, our offense is crap, and has no flow. Great offense is about rythm and flow.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    It's the offensive system. The point guard will never ever thrive in the system if Frank Vogel is still coach.
    Ridiculous. Frank is a players' coach. He devises his defensive and offensive schemes to fit the talents of his players. He does not force his players to play within a set scheme that they don't have the talents to thrive.

    If we had a Wall or Rondo, I would bet my house that the approach to our offense and distributing the ball would be much different than it is presently.

    I believe that your dislike of Vogel has tainted your perspective.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Fool's gold. Unless your plan is to make the offense revolve around that PG it isn't going to change much.

    Sportsfireman is correct, this team needs discipline. When Paul and Lance play with disciplined fundamentally sound basketball our offense is great. When they don't, our offense is crap, and has no flow. Great offense is about rythm and flow.
    The question is if they run the offense to the best of their ability is that good enough to win a championship? That area can definitely be improved but I am not
    convinced the Pacers have the right talent at the PG spot to win it all with current offensive system. Time will tell.
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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Ridiculous. Frank is a players' coach. He devises his defensive and offensive schemes to fit the talents of his players. He does not force his players to play within a set scheme that they don't have the talents to thrive.

    If we had a Wall or Rondo, I would bet my house that the approach to our offense and distributing the ball would be much different than it is presently.

    I believe that your dislike of Vogel has tainted your perspective.
    I don't dislike Vogel?
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    I think what we need are some floor privates.

    Aside from Paul's...
    BillS

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    The question is if they run the offense to the best of their ability is that good enough to win a championship? That area can definitely be improved but I am not
    convinced the Pacers have the right talent at the PG spot to win it all with current offensive system. Time will tell.
    Hill is by far our most efficient offensive player in the starters, he is the least of our worries. When the offense struggles it is because other players are struggling, not Hill.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    The only hope for a true floor general out of our current roster any time soon is David West. He needs to assert his maturity and leadership to keep the three young superstars unified where they currently are not always, and to keep them all focused on team play when they try to do too much on their own.

    With that said, West really needs to sit on Lance when he decides to go Rucker like Danny probably used to. Obviously Roy can't / won't because that is not in his nature despite being more vocal than he probably should be in the media. Just as obviously, IMO, Paul George would be the logical leader to sit on Lance to start with. However, he is too young to handle that load on top of being expected to carry a lion's share of the work on both ends of the floor. He really isn't mature enough to do so either.

    In my opinion, somebody from outside the current roster who has a slightly arrogant personality yet who can back up his personality with his play so he would command the respect of the rest of the team would be ideal. Who that is, I have no real idea. I think somebody like a modern day Mark Jackson could do the trick, but if so, who might that be?

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    I think it would help, yes. At this stage in their careers Paul and Lance aren't ready to run a team full time. They're not Kobe and LeBron, and Vogel isn't Phil. We don't have the talent to mimic those teams.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    It depends on what you mean by saying a "floor general". If you're talking about someone that commands the offense and initiates most of his team plays then sure. Every team has one. If you're talking about a point guard then I disagree.

    The Heat are not commanded by a point guard. They are commanded by Lebron who acts as their floor general.

    The Lakers were not commanded by a point guard. They were commanded by Kobe, Phil and the Triangle.

    The Bulls were not commanded by a point guard. They were commanded by MJ, Phil and the Triangle.

    We don't need a new floor general. Paul George and Lance Stephenson are our floor generals. They just need to act like that more often.
    The problem with this is that you just used 3 of the greatest wing players ever as an example. Paul George is not and will never be on their level.

    That is by no means a knock on PG, but those other guys are the exception, not the rule.

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    Default Re: Does the Pacers team need a floor general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    The only hope for a true floor general out of our current roster any time soon is David West. He needs to assert his maturity and leadership to keep the three young superstars unified where they currently are not always, and to keep them all focused on team play when they try to do too much on their own.

    With that said, West really needs to sit on Lance when he decides to go Rucker like Danny probably used to. Obviously Roy can't / won't because that is not in his nature despite being more vocal than he probably should be in the media. Just as obviously, IMO, Paul George would be the logical leader to sit on Lance to start with. However, he is too young to handle that load on top of being expected to carry a lion's share of the work on both ends of the floor. He really isn't mature enough to do so either.

    In my opinion, somebody from outside the current roster who has a slightly arrogant personality yet who can back up his personality with his play so he would command the respect of the rest of the team would be ideal. Who that is, I have no real idea. I think somebody like a modern day Mark Jackson could do the trick, but if so, who might that be?

    I agree, if anyone is this teams floor general it is DWEST. With that said its difficult for a PF to dictate the offense and keep turnovers to a minimum.

    I should have clarified a bit further than just the obvious for elite teams. A player like Chauncey Billups may be a good example, or more specifically as you mentioned Mark Jackson.

    Been a supporter of Bird since the days of the three year plan and many believed Legend got a pass simply due to namesake. If ever there was room to be critical it would be Bird not finding this team a pg in the draft. We skipped Rondo for Williams, Hansbrough over Lawson which is the ideal realistic candidate I sorta had in mind.

    Simply asking if this team needs a genuine point to run the offense. I mention because it seems George Hill himself has eluded to him being more comfortable as a sg. Just various comments it seems he would prefer the sg role. Our offense is not point guard centric but it seems we may need to perhaps go back to a more traditional approach on offense.

    Rondo would be pure gold for this team but I don't believe Pacers have the assets to get that deal done. As others mentioned, PG and Lance although potential stars are not ready yet to be a floor general.

    I believe Vogel offense may be more conducive to a traditional approach as well because of the emphasis on sharing the basketball.

    Looking at the stats that this team was LAST in A/T ratio for the previous season just seems like a clear motivation to tweek the offense. Bird himself has stated turnovers are an issue.

    Seems like a reasonable solution would be finding a guy similar to a Mark Jackson/Chauncey Billups that can blend in with this teams identity on defense.

    I kinda believe we are not effectively utilizing George Hill. Of all the starters it seems his game has regressed the most. I looked at this numbers in SA and he has less production here with more minutes than he did with the Spurs. ie fg %'s specifically.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...38/george-hill

    obviously its the spurs.


    Honestly, the offense has just become painful to watch and just considering if trending back to a traditional point guard centric offense would improve scoring efficiency and assists to turnovers an area this team has consistently struggled finishing last of 30 teams the previous season.

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