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Thread: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Do you remember last year's playoffs? Who was our leading scorer in the Miami series?

    Yeah, it wasn't Paul George. It was that guy "with the limited game".

    Hibbert showed you last year in the playoffs and he'll do it again this season. It's as simple as that.
    Other than going against a backup C from Kansas, I can't think of a lot of better matchups for a big man than playing against Miami. They set up their team the way they wanted it and don't really care about "losing" the C matchup because Bosh gets his too. And the Birdman? Chirp.

    Miami did acknowledge they probably didn't want to give away as much against us and went out and got Oden. It will interesting to see how the 2 games go with them. Would be nice to make a statement.

    Because I really do pray Roy proves me wrong...every day. I like Roy for the person he is and what he brings, even with its limits.

    But After 6 years, I am starting to question the power of prayer. I would rather see a guy demonstrably prove it on the court to "fix" what he says he wrong.

    ...at the end of day, until you win...you ain't done **** and its all smoke...

    its all chatter.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    I didn't imply anything, I wrote what I saw and I'm not the only one that went back and checked it.

    We can go back to the two previous possessions:

    Last defensive possession prior to Lance's on court fit: Lance gets caught in a screen leading to an open JR Smith jumpshot he clangs bad. Hill grabs the rebound and gets ran over by Stoudemire.

    Last Offensive possession prior to Lance's on court fit: Roy doesn't get good position so Hill moves to option two, which is West setting a freethrow line extended right side screen for Lance as he curls to the top of the key. Hill passes to Lance and Lance takes a jumper in rhythm that hits the front of the rim and line drives to the free throw line extended left side.

    What are you taking away from that sequence? I purposely left those two possessions out of my first post because I felt it was a little TOO damning of his tirade.

    This example isn't one isolated incident either, I can't count the number of times I've seen him make a pass to a guy and clap his hands in frustration they didn't put up a contested shot immediately and instead found a better offensive solution.

    I don't think any of the players actively dislike Lance, and they probably see what he brings to his team(though Rasual's interactions with him remind me so much of the way Dahntay interacted with Lance). But you'd have to be blind to not see that he sort of acts like a brat on the court, and that's not exactly an endearing quality.
    I don't think he acts like a "brat" on the court at all, I think he acts like a basketball player. It's funny that him getting on Hill is him being a brat, but Hill and Butler getting on him is just keeping him in line. It's apart of playing on a basketball team. It happens every game, on every team in the league.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker80 View Post
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    Other than going against a backup C from Kansas, I can't think of a lot of better matchups for a big man than playing against Miami. They set up their team the way they wanted it and don't really care about "losing" the C matchup because Bosh gets his too. And the Birdman? Chirp.
    The BirdMan is the one Center on the Team that does cause problems for Hibbert and the Pacers on both ends of the court.

    I'm not saying that he's gonna dominate the Pacers Frontcourt....I'm saying that he's a real difference maker for the Heat that has OFTEN caused problems for the Pacers on both the offense and defensive ends of the court.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The BirdMan is the one Center on the Team that does cause problems for Hibbert and the Pacers on both ends of the court.

    I'm not saying that he's gonna dominate the Pacers Frontcourt....I'm saying that he's a real difference maker for the Heat that has OFTEN caused problems for the Pacers on both the offense and defensive ends of the court.
    All I will concede is he gets a lot of dunks due to our maddening inability to defend Miami's PnR straight up the gut.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    The heck? I never said anything like that. Don't put words into my mouth.

    Lance absolutely steals rebounds from Hibbert but I never said that Hibbert has a problem with it. I don't have a problem with it either (as long as the team is fine with it, of course).

    In fact, here's one of my posts earlier in this thread:




    I never implied that Roy has an issue with Lance and I have no idea why you think that I did.
    You've implied it in other threads nuntius.

    It is impossible to steal a rebound man. If you get it, you earned it. Dennis Rodman "stole" thousands. Roy won't elbow Stephenson because he won't elbow anyone else, which is why he doesn't get more. Lance is a great rebounder for his position and why that bothers you, I'll never know.

    The reasoning you use to pit Lance against the rest of the team with this stealing rebounds junk is the exact kind of thing that keeps you from winning championships. John Wooden would be ashamed of that kind of thinking. If Lance stops going after rebounds we become a lesser team for it. And it's one of the things Larry Bird admires most about Lances game. So trust me, Larry ain't gonna buy it either. It's absurd.

    This is basketball and you wanna talk about fair? Is it little league? You have a chance to get the rebound just like everyone else, if you want it, go get it. And don't give me this "he's boxing out so the guards can get it" baloney. Makes you wonder how Kevin Love ever gets a rebound with all the boxing out he has to do. It's ridiculous.

    I think this is the only time I've ever seen a fan be upset with one of his guys for getting too many boards. Wow.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I don't think he acts like a "brat" on the court at all, I think he acts like a basketball player. It's funny that him getting on Hill is him being a brat, but Hill and Butler getting on him is just keeping him in line. It's apart of playing on a basketball team. It happens every game, on every team in the league.
    I really don't ever see Hill "getting on him". Rasual rolling his eyes at his outbursts is not "getting on him" either. He sure gets mad when you don't get him his dimes, though. But that's normal.

    You really think that acting out in frustration because an offensive play ended successfully without your input is "acting like a basketball player"? Yeah, basketball players on 25 win teams. Tony Parker doesn't lose his **** when Kawhi Leonard passes up that contested baseline jumper TP passed him into in order to get Duncan a good look down low. Dwayne Wade isn't getting after Lebron for driving and dishing instead of taking that 30 ft prayer DW passes him into.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I think this is the only time I've ever seen a fan be upset with one of his guys for getting too many boards. Wow.
    Well, no, that leaves out the history of the discussion. The problem is when people complain that Roy doesn't get any rebounds. The reason for that is because Lance grabs a lot of them away from him.

    In and of itself who gets the rebounds probably doesn't matter (though it seemed to be really important when talking about Troy Murphy). It only matters when Roy's rebounds (or lack thereof) are involved.
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yep, it leaves Lance. Which is why I said let's look at what Lance said.

    You think he's (Roy) afraid to call out West and PG, but I don't. West isn't the problem, first off, so there's no reason to call him out. PG is a problem, but at least he has enough sense to say they need to get better than to offer up an excuse I would have expected from a high school player.

    And that's the real issue, IMHO. If Lance is willing to say something like that in public, I can only imagine the excuses he comes up with in private. We've reached the boiling point of this situation, because they've been talking about getting back to team basketball for weeks and there has been no improvement. (I actually thought Lance in the first half was about as bad as it's ever been with him) I took Roy's comments about getting down the floor to mean that he was told to get quick position, and they'd lookfor him more. So he does it, doesn't get the looks and say's "Hey I did what you told me I needed to do in order to fix the problem and the problem still exists." That is fully my 100% opinion based on nothing but reading between the lines, but it's clear that this has been a topic of conversation for a while with very little results.

    And even Larry is fed-up with it, which is why he suggested that Frank should look to start pulling players from the game and sitting them. Again, just my opinion, but I think he was talking about Lance. Between his (Lance's) insistance on pounding nails, and throwing the flashiest passes he can think of. His (Larry) comments were over a week ago now. So clearly there is a rather large elephant sitting in the lockerroom.
    Maybe he was trying to call out Paul George, without actually calling out Paul George by name. You know, get a message across (the perimeter shooting portion), while still letting him know he has confidence in him (the green light portion).

    Basically he's saying "this was in an inside team and now our wings have taken over"......carefully.

    If that is what he's getting at, I agree. But to give PG a pass after the way he's played the last few months and single out Lance, is just absurd.

    If you sit Lance the problem is that you have to bring someone else in and the team flat out suffers. So how can he be the problem? He's the best option we have. Turner plays a similar game but pounds it worse than Lance. Rasual Butler is not gonna improve our play.

    If you think Larry believes that we need to sit Lance, I strongly disagree. That's how you turn this tough stretch into a wrecked season with longer lasting consequences heading into free agency. Lance deserves to play, he hasn't played himself out of the rotation or been outplayed by anyone, and he gives us the best chance to win. We have to continue to develop his talent if not for anything else this year, for the future of this team. The kid is a great young talent and we wouldn't be where we are without him. Finger pointing is the quickest way to eff this whole year up. JMO
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    You've implied it in other threads nuntius.

    It is impossible to steal a rebound man. If you get it, you earned it. Dennis Rodman "stole" thousands. Roy won't elbow Stephenson because he won't elbow anyone else, which is why he doesn't get more. Lance is a great rebounder for his position and why that bothers you, I'll never know.

    The reasoning you use to pit Lance against the rest of the team with this stealing rebounds junk is the exact kind of thing that keeps you from winning championships. John Wooden would be ashamed of that kind of thinking. If Lance stops going after rebounds we become a lesser team for it. And it's one of the things Larry Bird admires most about Lances game. So trust me, Larry ain't gonna buy it either. It's absurd.

    This is basketball and you wanna talk about fair? Is it little league? You have a chance to get the rebound just like everyone else, if you want it, go get it. And don't give me this "he's boxing out so the guards can get it" baloney. Makes you wonder how Kevin Love ever gets a rebound with all the boxing out he has to do. It's ridiculous.

    I think this is the only time I've ever seen a fan be upset with one of his guys for getting too many boards. Wow.
    "Lance steals them all from Roy anyway," Vogel said. "Roy is ready to get them and Lance comes in from the 3-point line off two feet. We all compete for the glass. We have all five guys on the defensive glass."

    "This is indicative of the sacrifice of this team," Vogel said. "A lot of times, (the bigs), they're sacrificing themselves to wipe out the best rebounders on the other team while the guards come back and get the numbers.

    "It's a sacrifice," Vogel continued, "more than anything."

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...ounds/4988905/
    uno, due, trezegol!

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    I think what everone is saying here, should be being said in a locker room at BLF. One would think that it would have already been done, but since nothing is changing and folks are chirping after the game, maybe not.

    Man up, look a guy in the eye tell him what you think. But be ready to hear about yourself.

    And Frank needs to stay out of the way until it starts looking like it will come to blows. And even then, he should let Dwest handle it.

    Screw the positive, self esteem building BS, its time for the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    I really don't ever see Hill "getting on him". Rasual rolling his eyes at his outbursts is not "getting on him" either. He sure gets mad when you don't get him his dimes, though. But that's normal.

    You really think that acting out in frustration because an offensive play ended successfully without your input is "acting like a basketball player"? Yeah, basketball players on 25 win teams. Tony Parker doesn't lose his **** when Kawhi Leonard passes up that contested baseline jumper TP passed him into in order to get Duncan a good look down low. Dwayne Wade isn't getting after Lebron for driving and dishing instead of taking that 30 ft prayer DW passes him into.
    No I don't pretend to know exactly what happened because I saw a conversation between two teammates, that's all.

    Plus, I have played on many teams and there were always guys getting on each other, every game. I didn't play for one team, or coach a team, that had everybody get along, ever. Most teams had guys that flat out didn't like each other and it didn't seem to have any correlation with how good we were. In fact the better the team I was on, the more competitive the guys on our roster usually were WITH EACH OTHER. I'm not sure where this "everybody must be best buddies all the time" line of thinking comes from, but it doesn't equate with my experience in basketball, though I never played in the NBA of course. And as a coach, I don't want guys that get along too well necessarily. But I doubt it's much different in that regard in the NBA. The best team I was ever on had 2 guys that I hated with a passion, ON THE COURT. They acted like ******** most of the time and knew it all. But if they were open, I got them the ball because they could play. And we hung out after the game because they were completely different off the hardwood. Competitiveness can make someone act like a jerk. It doesn't mean it's an issue.

    What happens off the court when nobody is watching is way more important. And from everything I've seen, Lance is like the teams "class clown" and probably benefits the team more than you know, personality wise. I've yet to see an interview where anyone directly said Lance is a problem in any way. All I've seen is people speak on his first two years and how far he has come.

    I think the fans who are the most bothered by Lances previous issues over analyze every little thing they see. Anytime him and a teammate have a disagreement it becomes " getting on Lance" or "causing trouble". I don't think that is what it is. The team is losing and trust me, nobody is more frustrated by that than Lance. The dudes a competitor.

    But then again I don't see just Lance pounding the ball too much, I see our entire offense not moving, guys standing around, and our perimeter players pounding it too much. There isn't one of them playing well. I see our best player shooting a horrible percentage over a 30 game stretch and just settling for the first jumper he gets, I see Roy Hibbert struggling to get position time after time. It's much more than one guy screwing everything up.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by faank View Post
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    "Lance steals them all from Roy anyway," Vogel said. "Roy is ready to get them and Lance comes in from the 3-point line off two feet. We all compete for the glass. We have all five guys on the defensive glass."

    "This is indicative of the sacrifice of this team," Vogel said. "A lot of times, (the bigs), they're sacrificing themselves to wipe out the best rebounders on the other team while the guards come back and get the numbers.

    "It's a sacrifice," Vogel continued, "more than anything."

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...ounds/4988905/
    Idc what Vogel says, he ain't "stealing them" anymore than Jeff Foster stole them, or Dennis Rodman stole them. He is beating 9 other guys to the ball, not just Roy or West.

    Every team tries to box out the other teams best rebounders. But not every team has 5 guys who crash the boards. We do, and it's complained about. I don't get it.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I don't think he acts like a "brat" on the court at all, I think he acts like a basketball player. It's funny that him getting on Hill is him being a brat, but Hill and Butler getting on him is just keeping him in line. It's apart of playing on a basketball team. It happens every game, on every team in the league.
    That's about all there is to it. This board is so quick to assign reputation and many posters will never let it go, no matter what.

    Roy Hibbert requires a psychologist. With every ounce of due respect, he is not the guy I would consider the voice of the team or of reason (necessarily). Vogel said he talked to him after the tirade. He (Vogel) felt Hibbert had to recognize that Lance and PG are earning the right to call their own number more, but that doesn't mean Hibbert shouldn't aggressively look to score.

    So the whole "Hibbert is right, Lance is a problem child" garbage should be put to bed. The issue is as obvious as it's ever been: Hibbert is not aggressive enough on offense or on the glass. He just lashed out instead of looking at himself.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Well, no, that leaves out the history of the discussion. The problem is when people complain that Roy doesn't get any rebounds. The reason for that is because Lance grabs a lot of them away from him.

    In and of itself who gets the rebounds probably doesn't matter (though it seemed to be really important when talking about Troy Murphy). It only matters when Roy's rebounds (or lack thereof) are involved.
    The only time I personally complain is when Roy gets 2 rebounds like against the Knicks. That's just pathetic, and it isn't because of Lance Stephenson.

    I don't expect him to grab 12 every night. Personally I would like to see him just get 3 offensive rebounds and 7-8 total, consistently. I think that's a reasonable expectation for a center.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker80 View Post
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    I think what everone is saying here, should be being said in a locker room at BLF. One would think that it would have already been done, but since nothing is changing and folks are chirping after the game, maybe not.

    Man up, look a guy in the eye tell him what you think. But be ready to hear about yourself.

    And Frank needs to stay out of the way until it starts looking like it will come to blows. And even then, he should let Dwest handle it.

    Screw the positive, self esteem building BS, its time for the playoffs.
    I bet way more than this stuff has been said behind close doors.

    Besides, are we really entertaining the idea that speaking publically isn't "maning up" (Or is it manning up?) Calling people out pubically, takes a lot of manhood, if you get my drift. No one would ever say something like that about Kobe or MJ. I understand it's because they have people's respect to say whatever they want, but going public like that takes some stones.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    The only time I personally complain is when Roy gets 2 rebounds like against the Knicks. That's just pathetic, and it isn't because of Lance Stephenson.

    I don't expect him to grab 12 every night. Personally I would like to see him just get 3 offensive rebounds and 7-8 total, consistently. I think that's a reasonable expectation for a center.
    So if he has 5 but clearly left 3 for Lance, would you look at the numbers or the game?

    I would agree that he should get offensive rebounds, but no one is getting ORebs and I have talked about this in other places - it's the herky-jerky form of our offense that keeps guys from being able to anticipate position on a missed shot.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Just to sum up this conversation

    Bird: We need to get back to playing like a team.
    Frank: We need to play more like a team.
    West: We need to play more like a team.
    Hibbert: We need to play more like a team.
    Paul: We need to be smarter.
    Lance: The defense forces us to play one-on-one
    Some PD Posters: Lance doesn't play one-on-one.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-21-2014 at 04:47 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Besides, are we really entertaining the idea that speaking publically isn't "maning up" (Or is it manning up?)
    I think "maning up" is when you hang out in the barbershop the next day to talk about the game. Very possibly the only basketball tradition shared between New York and Indiana.
    BillS

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  27. #269

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Just to sum up this conversation

    Bird: We need to get back to playing like a team. Translation: We've been playing 1 on 1.
    Frank: We need to play more like a team. Translation: We've been playing 1 on 1.
    West: We need to play more like a team. Translation: We've been playing 1 on 1.
    Hibbert: We need to play more like a team. Translation: We've been playing 1 on 1, which is fine if it's anybody except Lance.
    Paul: We need to be smarter. Translation: We've been playing 1 on 1 and our center is moping instead of working through it.
    Lance: The defense forceD us (in the Knicks game) to play one-on-one. Translation: I acknowledge that we were playing 1 on 1, which is entirely obvious to anyone with functioning eyesight.
    PD: Lance doesn't play one-on-one.
    Since86: Blame Lance

    Fixed that for you.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I bet way more than this stuff has been said behind close doors.

    Besides, are we really entertaining the idea that speaking publically isn't "maning up" (Or is it manning up?) Calling people out pubically, takes a lot of manhood, if you get my drift. No one would ever say something like that about Kobe or MJ. I understand it's because they have people's respect to say whatever they want, but going public like that takes some stones.
    Did I miss something? The quote which solved the mystery of this thread?

    Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Speak plain. Why the ambiguity?

    And make sure you take the easy shot in public and give complete pass to the other looming issue.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Just to sum up this conversation

    Bird: We need to get back to playing like a team.
    Frank: We need to play more like a team.
    West: We need to play more like a team.
    Hibbert: We need to play more like a team.
    Paul: We need to be smarter.
    Lance: The defense forces us to play one-on-one
    Some PD Posters: Lance doesn't play one-on-one.
    I acknowledged he isn't playing his best basketball. All I'm saying is I think PGs play has been much more troublesome.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    So what's Lance's reasoning for not moving the ball for the past few weeks, if he was just talking about that game?

    And yes, I do blame Lance for Lance not moving the ball.
    I blame PG for not moving the ball.

    I blame those who aren't moving the ball, instead of trying to convince everyone else that they are moving the ball.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Tell you what, the only guy on this team, IMHO, who has the credibility to stand up and make public corrections is DWest.

    Period.

    Other folks got way too many issues of their own to be pointing fingers.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker80 View Post
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    And make sure you take the easy shot in public and give complete pass to the other looming issue.
    Calling someone out publically, is never the easy shot.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So if he has 5 but clearly left 3 for Lance, would you look at the numbers or the game?

    I would agree that he should get offensive rebounds, but no one is getting ORebs and I have talked about this in other places - it's the herky-jerky form of our offense that keeps guys from being able to anticipate position on a missed shot.
    Yes and I do, I'm definitely not one of the people on here bashing Roy all the time for his rebounding. But I ain't gonna make excuses for it. He's actually a very good offensive rebounder so I cut him some slack for his defensive rebounding most of the time.

    Don't get my wrong I'm actually a huge Roy fan. I was on here defending him his first two years when most people wanted him traded. I love the guys work ethic and defensive presence.
    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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