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Thread: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

  1. #76
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Lance should only take a three when he has too. Meaning the shot clock is winding down, or the pacers need a three and he is open. I would have said this same thing about PG in past seasons, but PG has improved enough that I am OK with him shooting it when he doesn't need to. (PG still shoot too many but if he is open and it is within the offense, I dont have a problem

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  3. #77

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Which is why I gave a bigger sample size of just one game, to show the trend that Lance has been leaning more and more on putting up a large about of 3pt attempts.

    Is 6 per game over the last 6 games, too much or too little?
    Neither. Not a whole lot, not a little.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold View Post
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    Neither. Not a whole lot, not a little.
    6 threes per game is a ton.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold View Post
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    Neither. Not a whole lot, not a little.
    Lance isnt a good enough shooter to justify ever shooting that many 3s on a consistent basis. He isn't a shooter and should focus on getting to the cup.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    I think the issue here is this, what does this really solve? Can anyone in the starting lineup really say they have been playing their best ball over the past month, except maybe West? Now the spotlight is shown on the Lance-Roy relationship and I think that ignores the bigger problems that exist.

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  10. #81

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    6 threes per game is a ton.
    It's during a stretch of 6 games and not over the course of the season. It happens when you're a wing player.

  11. #82

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Lance isnt a good enough shooter to justify ever shooting that many 3s on a consistent basis. He isn't a shooter and should focus on getting to the cup.
    It's not on a consistent basis. That's the thing.

  12. #83
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Whether I agree or not. Keep it in house Roy, that's not how good teams handle their business. He's better than that. I'll chalk this up to a momentary slip by him.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I think the issue here is this, what does this really solve? Can anyone in the starting lineup really say they have been playing their best ball over the past month, except maybe West? Now the spotlight is shown on the Lance-Roy relationship and I think that ignores the bigger problems that exist.
    Paul George gets treated by Vogel as if he's Kobe Bryant. That's just caused a domino effect that has hurt the offense. PG just isn't great enough to hog so much of the offense. He plays as if he's 2006 Kobe on a garbage Laker team. PG has been averaging about 40% from the field for about 30 games now. It's hard for an offense to be good when it revolves so heavily around one player who shoots such hideous percentages. Someone needs to reign him in and tell him that he's not Michael Jordan yet.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    George thinks he is Michael Jordan or Kobe or LeBron and tries to do too much. Lance tries to be too flashy and also tries to do too much. They both need to be reigned in.

    In my opinion, we should let Lance walk, let Turner walk, sign Kyle Lowry and move George Hill to the 2....but we can't do that until summer.

  17. #86

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Also curious to know why this whole topic is about Lance. Roy didn't call anyone out by name and yet, he's "an *** for calling out Stephenson?!?!" It's all speculation, at this point. I would say our biggest issues as a team right now are our horrid first halfs, usually the result of not giving the ball to Hibbert/West more and Stephenson and George shooting like crap. To offset that, Vogel refuses to mix up his rotation at all, so the same offensively inept scrubs are coming in off the bench for almost the entire second quarter and by time the half rolls around, you have a 10 point deficit.

    I've said this in other thread, we have no shooting off our bench right now; Scola, Mahimi, Stephenson, Sloan, and Turner ... none of those is a great shooter. Meanwhile, we leave Butler and Copeland on the bench ... who can both score and shoot. Why? Scola contributes nothing when his shot isn't falling. He's a turnover machine who plays no D and is a subpar rebounder. Copeland's a guy who put up 30 points like 5 times last season and is a phenomenal shooter, what's the hesitation here? I don't get it.

    We also really, really need Watson to get healthy...
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    This really is one of those cases where you have to see what's happening and reference it along with the stats to figure out what is going on.

    Lance shoots well when he gets going, but should he be taking every shot? If not, you have got to look at how he integrates with other players on the team.

    IF other players aren't getting the ball from Lance when they are in position to do something with it, is it their fault or his? Considering everyone seems to have problems with positioning when Lance initiates, it is not just one player being unable to work with him. It IS a little tricky - it could be the offensive scheme in general causing the problem, which is somewhat supported by it not being much less stagnant when Hill is initiating - but given the other issues of rebound spacing and timing, I'm more inclined to put it on whether the players can or cannot anticipate what is happening.

    The PG and Hill situations aren't much better, but in their cases what they are doing is predictable to the rest of the team (one might say, in the flow of the offense). That will not only cause less irritation, it actually leads to other players being more effective when PG and Hill are not having good nights shooting.

    Overall, though, I like the analogy of the engine starting. It is almost as if each piston thinks that it has to get going on its own before the engine can go, so they are interfering with each other and causing the engine as a whole to tear itself apart.

    Guys need to stop thinking about being the hero and start doing what is best for the team.
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Considering Hill's shooting percentage as of late, I'd definitely include him.
    I would take into account the number of FG attempts that he takes in a game ( between 8 to 9 ), if he is in a shooting slump...i
    dont like it....but he doesnt take enough FGA to make that much of a difference.

    If Hibbert is giving PG24 a pass.....I dont get it. He's the guy taking the most shots....and when he's shooting 36% from behind the 3pt line at 5 to 6 attempts a game.....to me, that's too many. Overall, I like that he does attack the basket to draw fouls and get to the line....but it just seems like he's the one that has fallen in love with his 3pt jumpshot.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  23. #89
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    Also curious to know why this whole topic is about Lance. Roy didn't call anyone out by name and yet, he's "an *** for calling out Stephenson?!?!" It's all speculation, at this point. I would say our biggest issues as a team right now are our horrid first halfs, usually the result of not giving the ball to Hibbert/West more and Stephenson and George shooting like crap. To offset that, Vogel refuses to mix up his rotation at all, so the same offensively inept scrubs are coming in off the bench for almost the entire second quarter and by time the half rolls around, you have a 10 point deficit.

    I've said this in other thread, we have no shooting off our bench right now; Scola, Mahimi, Stephenson, Sloan, and Turner ... none of those is a great shooter. Meanwhile, we leave Butler and Copeland on the bench ... who can both score and shoot. Why? Scola contributes nothing when his shot isn't falling. He's a turnover machine who plays no D and is a subpar rebounder. Copeland's a guy who put up 30 points like 5 times last season and is a phenomenal shooter, what's the hesitation here? I don't get it.

    We also really, really need Watson to get healthy...
    That really shows that there's a lot of us that have noticed lance do what hibbert was saying. When you don't have to name someone and everyone knows that's not a good thing. This problem has been starting since lance was in the early all start talk and also PG in the early MVP talk.

    They wanted to justify that recognition so bad that they got away from what got them there in the first place. I love what lance brings but he's playing for a contract more than the team success IMO. His body language of getting mad at teammates for not shooting the ball immediately after getting a pass from him (assists) and fighting teammates over rebounds has led me to believe that. I love that lance starts the break and gets down the court but you know what travels faster? Passing and this team simply doesn't do that as much.

    If they play hero ball and not inside/outside they will not beat Miami


    it has also gotten to beyond frustrating to comical. how this team has yet to figure out how moving the ball is how they crush teams. Like Quinn mentions every game they just continue to fight it instead of just moving the ball.
    Last edited by ThA HoyA; 03-20-2014 at 11:39 AM.

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  25. #90
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Lance needs to be our primary ball handler. Lance needs to run the offense. When he does, our offense does well. (Sure, he makes a mistake now and then, but the over is better than the under.) When Hill runs the offense, nothing happens. When PG runs it, it's either a nice shot, a bad percentage shot, or a turnover (more of the the last two than the first).

    If the players had more practice with Lance running the offense, they wouldn't be so unfamiliar with what's going to happen. (For instance, when Roy get's the ball from Lance in his hands, he would learn to squeeze--just kidding, couldn't resist.)
    No, just no. If you want to increase anyone's role in the offense it is Hill, not Lance. Offensively Hill is easily our most efficient player. He has the highest Ortg of the starters by far, a higher OWS than Lance, gets to the FT line at a higher percentage and is our second best FT shooter, is our most efficient scorer with a TS% of 57.4%, and doesn't have one of the highest turnover rates for his position like Lance.

    Lance does good things out there, but given too much freedom and responsibility he starts to hurt you. That is what happened. He shouldn't be looked at as a primary scorer or ball handler with the starters because he simply isn't a good team player in that role.

    What needs to happen is, Paul needs to learn that when he is having an off shooting night to tone it down, and focus on defense and helping others get good shots. Vogel needs to make Hill be more aggressive. When Hill consistently drives to the basket, good things usually happen. The offense should almost always be run through West.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    If they play hero ball and not inside/outside they will not beat Miami.
    Couldn't agree more. That type of basketball is what got us to where we were mid-January. At the beginning of the season amid our hot start, we repeatedly talked about how we were a smash-mouth, dump the ball inside and let it work through the post to hit the open guy on the outside for the open jumper kind of team and we have completely abandoned that. Watching this team of late, I feel like they're playing a high school type of basketball and we need to limit the number of dribbles they're allowed to take, or number of passes they must make before taking a shot... It's getting ridiculous and so stagnant.
    "I think the people that may have questions about him will say wait a minute, why wasn't he more dominant at Fresno State? He's a maturing player, a guy that's figuring it out and you know when you're considering drafting guys that have been freshman and all that stuff. He's got the potential to get better and better and better." - Jay Bilas on PG on draft night.

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  29. #92
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    I certainly think we are taking more outside shots than last season or even earlier in this season. But does anyone know the stats that would back this up?

    Are we taking 10% more outside shots? 5% more. 25% more. I would like to know

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Remember this?

    Bird to Kravitz: 'I'm not mad, I'm disappointed'

    Bird has faith in this group, and for good reason, but he's keeping a close eye out for signs of schism.

    "One thing I'd be nervous about is pointing fingers,'' he said. " 'Well, so-and-so isn't doing this or that.' I haven't seen that, yet, but that's a sure sign you've got a problem.''
    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...acers/6297209/

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I certainly think we are taking more outside shots than last season or even earlier in this season. But does anyone know the stats that would back this up?

    Are we taking 10% more outside shots? 5% more. 25% more. I would like to know
    I can't get outside shots from inside the arc from Basketball-Reference, but Indiana is actually shooting LESS 3PAs nightly compared to earlier in the season. Unfortunately, the Pacers are also making 1 less 3 per game compared to November....

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...D/2014/splits/
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I can't get outside shots from inside the arc from Basketball-Reference, but Indiana is actually shooting LESS 3PAs nightly compared to earlier in the season. Unfortunately, the Pacers are also making 1 less 3 per game compared to November....

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...D/2014/splits/
    I think the main thing is how are those shots coming about? Are they within the flow of ball reversals? if so then they are good shots. However its been more of the iso, shot clock is running down, type of shots.

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  36. #96

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    It's funny because Lance has been our most consistent and best player all season. Paul George deserves to get called out far more than Lance does.

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  38. #97
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    I think the main thing is how are those shots coming about? Are they within the flow of ball reversals? if so then they are good shots. However its been more of the iso, shot clock is running down, type of shots.
    Exactly, shots at the beginning of the year were coming off of ball movement. Now they're just heaving them up out of desperation.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  40. #98
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaceKid31 View Post
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    Couldn't agree more. That type of basketball is what got us to where we were mid-January. At the beginning of the season amid our hot start, we repeatedly talked about how we were a smash-mouth, dump the ball inside and let it work through the post to hit the open guy on the outside for the open jumper kind of team and we have completely abandoned that. Watching this team of late, I feel like they're playing a high school type of basketball and we need to limit the number of dribbles they're allowed to take, or number of passes they must make before taking a shot... It's getting ridiculous and so stagnant.
    So wait, you solution is to treat them like High School Kids to get them to stop playing High School basketball?
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  41. #99
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    I'd love for Vogel to ban PG from shooting 3's for a game, he should not be taking six 3's a game. I don't want a chucker, I want someone who takes smart shots and takes the ball to the rim. Just see what happens, PG will still want his, and I think it would force him to take the ball to the basket, which is what he should be doing anyway.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert calls out Lance and maybe George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I'd love for Vogel to ban PG from shooting 3's for a game, he should not be taking six 3's a game. I don't want a chucker, I want someone who takes smart shots and takes the ball to the rim. Just see what happens, PG will still want his, and I think it would force him to take the ball to the basket, which is what he should be doing anyway.
    Especially now that he's starting to get trips to the line when he drives to the basket. Just ATTACK the rim instead of shooting the 3!
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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