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Thread: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    After watching last night's game I firmly believe the Pacers are a new team. Artest has such a huge effect on everything when he is on the floor, every single thing that happens he has a hand in. Of course not everything he does is positive, but you must admit he has a huge effect on every possession.

    I realize it was only one game and if you did not see the game you might not have a clue as to what I am talking about.

    But the team was very different last night.

    Let me count the ways.

    10 man rotation, something Carlisle said on his radio show Thursday night that they were going to.

    In this regards, I believe the second unit really missed AL Harrington, if Bender did not have such a good game, the second unit would have really struggled. I have thought for two years now that AL does not fit as well with the starters as he does the reserves. We'll see how that plays out.

    Reggie appears like he will get a few more minutes and shoot more. Most importantly he seems to be ready for it.

    Did you like Foster being on the court at crunch time. I sure did. Foster over the years has a knack for getting huge rebounds late in games, not that he doesn't throughout game and maybe rebounds only seem bigger late in games, but he IMO makes plays at the end that really help the team.

    Peck, you had to like what Foster did in the last 9 minutes of the game getting 8 rebounds and many of the tough position type that you claim Foster rarely gets.

    I see Freddie getting more minutes, because he will be on the floor every minute that Reggie isn't, before Ron went down Ronnie played shooting guard for about 6 minutes every game. Is Freddie ready, I think he is. He is now the Pacers best perimeter defender.

    Let's face it without Artest playing there are a lot more shots for everyone else, who should get those shots. AL might get a few, but I think Reggie will get the majority of those.

    Pacers are certainly not a better team without Ronnie, but they are a drastically different team, the ball movement will increase, it will have to because Artest created so many scoring plays for himself and for his teammates, that loss will really show up against the good teams late in games.

    Just realized in all this discussion I have not mentioned defense at all. Unusual for me, but I'll stop for now.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I see Freddie getting more minutes, because he will be on the floor every minute that Reggie isn't, before Ron went down Ronnie played shooting guard for about 6 minutes every game. Is Freddie ready, I think he is. He is now the Pacers best perimeter defender.
    Your observations are excellent.

    I wanted to comment on this: Defensively Freddie getting more minutes is great; But, offensively, I am concerned. He still has no confidence in his shot. Good news is, I guess, he will pass the ball.

    Speaking of passing the ball, JO was a little deficient in that area last night. His struggles offensively might have lessened had he effectively passed out of the double teams earlier and more often.

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    It was nice to see Reggie assert himself more.

    I think Al is actually better with the second unit simply because he plays on the same part of the floor as Jermaine. He is really Jermaine's backup not Artest's. It seemed like every time he was on the floor with Jermaine his play went down but when Jermaine was on the bench Al played better.

    Bender player very well with the starters in the first half but I dont see him getting the starting job over Al just yet.

    As far as Foster goes you know how I feel about him being on the floor at the end of the game from the amount of time I have spent *****ing about the games where he was not in there.

    Freddie is a good defender but I am not sure he is all there on the ofensive end. This may come down to poing guard because he never plays with Tins. I would like to see Kenny get AJ's minutes if for just one game. I would like to see how it afects Freddie before I decide on him. I do think he did a decent job on Stack when they were not getting fast breaks off of bad timed passes by a certain backup pg.

    I thought the Starters played very good D. Notice how most of Arenas' scoring came when Tins was not on him.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    OK, I do want to comment on the defense and the overall approach for the team.

    Defensively: now we'll really find out if the Pacers defensive system is as good as I think it is. Pacers will have to help more on the great scoring small forwards and those that Ronnie guarded.

    The best thing Ronnie does is allow the Pacers as a team to play one-on-one and not double team or help as much on whoever Artest is defending. When i watch other teams defend players like T-Mac, Pierce, they double team and help much more than the Pacers do because they have to. That makes the Pacers a better defensive rebounding team and it makes the other 4 players better defenders.

    Pacers will need to concentrate more on the team defensive principles.


    Last night I noticed more enthusism from the players not in the game, the bench was on their feet more often and they seemed to be a more cohessive unit, from 1 through 12. That is what they will need.


    Two last things.

    Pacers will need more energy from every player. Ronnie's energy rubs off on his teammates, but without him every player needs to bring their own energy.

    At certain times in almost every game Ronnie through his effort and skill was able to cary the team for short periods. When the team was struggling it was often Artest who would get a steal, get to the free throw line, hit a tough shot and those plays enabled the pacers to stay in the game or maintain a lead or increase a lead. Pacers will need those type of plays from other players now.

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I do think that guys like Pierce and T-Mac will have a feild day with the Pacers right now but I think we will be able to keep everyone else in line.

    If anything I think our offense might run a little better without Ron simply because he turns the ball over so much. Of course when he does he goes and gets the ball right back so there is no loss with his turnovers.

    I really think it is going to come down to Bender. If he can be the kind of help defender that he was last night we will be fine. His shot blocking really altered the game when he was in there. I know it was only a couple but what does not shot up in the stats is how many times the other team passes up close in shots in favor of longer jumpers when he is in there.

    With Both Jermaine and JB blocking shots it becomes a scary place in the middle for the other team. Add that to Fosters ability to get every simgle crucial rebound and the way he plays the passing lane and we can really get under the other teams skin and kill their rythem.

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.
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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.
    Agreed. I was thinking that last night, that it would be interesting to at least try that.

    How 'bout it, Carlisle? Start JB and put Kenny in behind Tinsley and see what happens.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.

    I agree that it would help the team overall. But it won't happen because AL would not take iot very well at all, if he gets replaced in the starting lineup by a guy who has played 5 games this season.

    All Rick has to do is tweek the substitutions a little and play AL more with the reservers and Bender more with the starters

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.
    I stare at your post and say: Do I dare dream that one day soon JB will be able to contribute as much, if not more, than Al.

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.

    I agree that it would help the team overall. But it won't happen because AL would not take iot very well at all, if he gets replaced in the starting lineup by a guy who has played 5 games this season.

    All Rick has to do is tweek the substitutions a little and play AL more with the reservers and Bender more with the starters
    I think your right he would not take it well but the way his knee was acting last night maybe Rick could sit him a game because of the knee and see what happens with JB in there.

    Of course I want him to do this against the heat or some other lowley team.

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    A note about Freddie Jones and Jon Bender.

    These guys, esp. Freddie, are the only ones on our team who seem willing to consistently drive straight in to the basket and create their own opportunity (other guys do this occasionally but not often enough - i.e. Tinsley and AL). This is an element to our team that I have found sorely lacking this year.

    It helps us immensely to have guys like Freddie in there because he'll either score points, get fouled or force the defense to collapse, allowing the perimeter guys to get better looks.

    Before last night I'd forgotten that Bender had this ability. It was nice to see and it adds another dimension to the team offensively.

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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.
    I stare at your post and say: Do I dare dream that one day soon JB will be able to contribute as much, if not more, than Al.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  13. #13

    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I think it will be interesting to see how we continue to play. I honestly don't think if we play to our full potential that there will be a lot of a dropoff. I think that we have the ability to compete with every team that we play with.

    I want to talk about JO. He needs to get himself into gear, because he really isn't playing all that well. Not passing well, or having good shot selection. Too many jumpers, I think. I mean, it's good that he is making them and all, but the guy can dominate in the post. Why not play to the strength of your game, right?

    As far as Freddie is concerned, I think he needs to be more aggressive offensively. Needs to penetrate more often and try to score himself instead of passing the ball all the time. Shoot the ball. I am sure that eventually the shots will start to go in on a consistant basis.

    I want to see Bender continue how he played yesterday. Key word being want.
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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.

    I agree that it would help the team overall. But it won't happen because AL would not take iot very well at all, if he gets replaced in the starting lineup by a guy who has played 5 games this season.

    All Rick has to do is tweek the substitutions a little and play AL more with the reservers and Bender more with the starters
    Agreed.

    As for the team, it's fun to see a different dynamic. After the All-Star break, it really becomes waiting for the playoffs to start for me. I know the team inside and out, we've played just about everybody in the league, no more trades to happen. Gets kind of boring. This spices things up.

    Last night actually felt like a playoff game to me, because we have a lot more to play for then just what our final record will be. Hopefully the team will keep up this energy, cause we're gonna need it.
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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    Am I the only person who thought Al did a good job defensively on Stackhouse?

    I know Al has his problems but sometimes I think people are to hard on him & only judge him based on what he scores a game. I thought Al tried very hard to fit in to the system (which is what I've said all along about him) & not be disruptive on the offense, hence he took a grand total of 6 shots.

    If he would have shot the ball 16 times people would say he was shooting to much, now he shoots 6 times & he isn't shooting enough.

    I think putting J.B. in Al's spot would be a devastating blow to him & in this case I can't say as to where I would blame him.

    He did turn the ball over to much & he didn't get enough rebounds for my taste, but I thought his defense was very good & I think he made it so that he fit in with the starters.

    Also we don't know how bad his knee really is hurting.


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    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I still think its possible that JB might temporarily move to the starting lineup so that Al can move back to the bench - the second unit needs him and I'm not sure he helps the starters *that* much more than JB could, right now.
    Agreed. I was thinking that last night, that it would be interesting to at least try that.

    How 'bout it, Carlisle? Start JB and put Kenny in behind Tinsley and see what happens.
    We need Al to play well for success in the playoffs. If Ronnie wasn't out...I'd sit Al for a couple weeks, let that knee rest and recover.

    I like AJ I think he is a good vocal leader, a buddy of JOs...and instrumental in Jamal's development...that being said...he can do all those things sitting next to Carlisle...I'd like to see Kenny get a shot with the second unit. Play AJ in spot situations.

    JB showed us more glimpes last night, the second quater was enjoyable basketball...and he was a big part of it. His ability to get to the basket and finish with either hand is refreshing. Anyway he didn't get much second half action because the rest of the second unit played so poorly they all got yanked.

    Al did play good defense on Stack, and I thought Jamal locked down Gilbert late in the game. Foster did so many of the little things and I think he could do this on a more consistant basis...he's our best post defender...IMO... Defense and rebounding were huge in the last 5 Minutes.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Well, how do you like the Pacers new team?

    I wonder what's going to happen, though, on the nights when Jamaal and Reggie can't buy a bucket. Worries me. Those nights were often nights where Ron carried us.

    Al and JB will have to really step up on those nights. Whether they will remains to be seen.

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