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Thread: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

  1. #151
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColeTheMole View Post
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    He played for 12 years. That is a success.
    The wizards would disagree.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    For him. Not for the NBA.
    Playing 2 years in college doesn't change the fact that the draft is basically a crap shoot anyway. Was Tyler Hansbrough a success for the Pacers after playing 4 years in the ACC?

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    They could have picked anybody else in the world. They chose to pick Kwame.
    Because they didn't and couldn't have known any better. He was dunking on the 16 year old part time fry greaser at McDonald's. Anyone with his size and agility was going to look like then next Kevin Garnett.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  5. #154
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Playing 2 years in college doesn't change the fact that the draft is basically a crap shoot anyway. Was Tyler Hansbrough a success for the Pacers after playing 4 years in the ACC?
    The NBA from 1995 to 2002 had a zero percent success rate properly evaluating HS players. I'm guessing the college players were less of a crapshoot.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    ^OK, well if playing against Euro competition is so much better, how do you explain Darko?




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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Playing 2 years in college doesn't change the fact that the draft is basically a crap shoot anyway. Was Tyler Hansbrough a success for the Pacers after playing 4 years in the ACC?
    I think so, but there's a pretty big difference between being selected 1st and being selected 13th.

    But going back to my original point, telling me how many contracts Kwame Brown received during his NBA career, say's nothing whether or not he was a good investment for the #1 pick. So yeah, the emphasis on the list of "success" stories should be re-evaluated because what people are claiming it shows, isn't what it shows.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Darko was dunking on the Euro eqivelant of the part time fry greaser at McDonald's. Which is probably still the part time fry greaser at McDonald's.

    His level of competiton was terrible too.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Playing 2 years in college doesn't change the fact that the draft is basically a crap shoot anyway. Was Tyler Hansbrough a success for the Pacers after playing 4 years in the ACC?
    Where he was drafted? Yeah, I think so. He gets a bad rap around here but I don't think he was bad.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The nba went eight drafts in a row without properly evaluating one single highschool prospect.

    Next.
    And you said, "For every Kobe Bryant, there were a dozen Korleone Youngs." Doug Gottlieb made a tweet earlier in the year making the same incorrect point. I was just proving that point wrong.

    Next.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    And you said, "For every Kobe Bryant, there were a dozen Korleone Youngs." Doug Gottlieb made a tweet earlier in the year making the same incorrect point. I was just proving that point wrong.

    Next.
    Re-read what I said then get back to me. Thanks. It's not just the first round highschool busts, or even the 2nd rounders. A lot of HS kids declared and went undrafted. But hey, you're too busy making your point....

    Next.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And that's why we differ. You look at how much he made in salary, and automatically assume it's a "success." It was for him personally, but not for the Wizards who drafted him.
    That's a different argument. I think Kwame underachieved in his career, but I don't define it as a failure. He played 11 to 12 years in the NBA.

    But it did hurt the Wizards, there's no question about that. Having kids jump from HS to the NBA is bad for the league, for reasons many have detailed. I'm not against 2 years, but I think the NCAA needs to change some things. As Sollozzo said, college basketball isn't going away in this country.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Kwame's career was a huge success for Kwame and a huge failure for the nba. The wizards were forced to make a call on him or the other HS prospects based on competition that wasn't even community college level. If you can't properly evaluate a kid playing against other future nba players in a college setting, that's on you.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-13-2014 at 11:38 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Re-read what I said then get back to me. Thanks. It's not just the first round highschool busts, or even the 2nd rounders. A lot of HS kids declared and went undrafted. But hey, you're too busy making your point....

    Next.
    And I named every single HS kid who went undrafted. Every one of them. You may want to re-read what I wrote. Thanks.

    But, hey, you're too busy adding to your post count and passing off opinions as facts to do proper research . . .

    Next.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    If the NBA can set up the D-League expansion for each NBA team to own its own (or be the single parent affiliate of a) D-League team, the draft age could return to after high school and the NBA age could be 20. The catch? You can only play for your team's D-League franchise because you are under contract with the parent organization, a la the MLB/MILB system, just with an age limit on a call up. It could jump start the D-League's revenue and marketing without forcing the athletes to go through the scam that is the NCAA to have exposure.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    The bottom line is it's a REALLY bad idea for the NBA to have kids declare from high school. Not for the kids but for the league.

    I just want there to be a realistic alternative for kids who may not have any interest in an education. That's where I think the D-League can come in for players with an interest in one-and-done players.

    A two year minimum is not bad for the NBA. But colleges should have to give something as well if they want that.
    Last edited by shags; 03-13-2014 at 11:49 AM.
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    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The wizards would disagree.
    When the Wizards picked Kwame first, the lottery picks in the 2001 draft included 4 high school players, 2 international players, and 8 college players.

    The 4 high schoolers: Kwame Brown (1), Tyson Chandler (2), Eddy Curry (4), DeSagna Diop (8)

    The 2 international players: Pau Gasol (3), Vladimir Radmanovic (12)

    The 8 college players: Jason Richardson (5), Shane Battier (6), Eddie Griffin (7), Rodney White (9), Joe Johnson (10), Kedrick Brown (11), Richard Jefferson (13), Troy Murphy (14)

    Just like you can with any draft, you could re-order them based on how they turned out and say that the Wizards made a mistake. They should have drafted Pau first. But if the goal is to save teams from drafting Kwame Brown by getting them to draft Eddie Griffin, Rodney White, or Kedrick Brown instead, I don't see who that's helping.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Where he was drafted? Yeah, I think so. He gets a bad rap around here but I don't think he was bad.
    He was basically exactly the same as Kwame Brown. If you want to say, well he was drafted 13th, not 1st, Kedrick Brown went 11th in 2001 after playing 2 years in college.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    He was basically exactly the same as Kwame Brown. If you want to say, well he was drafted 13th, not 1st, Kedrick Brown went 11th in 2001 after playing 2 years in college.
    Okay. I don't know what the hell Kedrick Brown has to do with this. I think Tyler was a fine draft pick at #13, not good, not bad, but about what we expected.

    This isn't an exact science either way. I don't have a good answer for it, and can see both sides of the argument.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    The bottom line is it's a REALLY bad idea for the NBA to have kids declare from high school. Not for the kids but for the league.

    I just want there to be a realistic alternative for kids who may not have any interest in an education. That's where I think the D-League can come in for players with an interest in one-and-done players.

    A two year minimum is not bad for the NBA. But colleges should have to give something as well if they want that.
    College athletes are a $50,000-$125,000 investment for schools. Between the education they get, books, rent, food, actual money they end up making more than the average American per year. They do get "something" the problem is people think they should get more than what they do.

    Maybe Duke should pay their basketball players, but then they'll have to pay their female players as it's Federal Law. We want nice tidy solutions, when there really isn't any.

    And if anyone thinks that their free tuition isn't "something" you're more than welcome to take over my non-something student loans.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    College athletes are a $50,000-$125,000 investment for schools. Between the education they get, books, rent, food, actual money they end up making more than the average American per year. They do get "something" the problem is people think they should get more than what they do.

    Maybe Duke should pay their basketball players, but then they'll have to pay their female players as it's Federal Law. We want nice tidy solutions, when there really isn't any.

    And if anyone thinks that their free tuition isn't "something" you're more than welcome to take over my non-something student loans.
    If one of 30 NBA teams is willing to pay an 18 year old kid the league minimum of about half a million per year, he should be able to choose to take the money over that free tuition those schools are offering.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Okay. I don't know what the hell Kedrick Brown has to do with this. I think Tyler was a fine draft pick at #13, not good, not bad, but about what we expected.

    This isn't an exact science either way. I don't have a good answer for it, and can see both sides of the argument.
    If the argument is that Kwame Brown was a "failed" draft pick, because there were other better players drafted behind him, that applies to Hansbrough and just about everybody else ever drafted.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If one of 30 NBA teams is willing to pay an 18 year old kid the league minimum of about half a million per year, he should be able to choose to take the money over that free tuition those schools are offering.
    But the NBA is saying they're not willing to pay them. If we're going to use the "willing to pay" line of thinking (which I totally agree with) then we also need to put stock in the "they're not willing to pay" line of thinking. Can't have it both ways.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    College athletes are a $50,000-$125,000 investment for schools. Between the education they get, books, rent, food, actual money they end up making more than the average American per year. They do get "something" the problem is people think they should get more than what they do.

    Maybe Duke should pay their basketball players, but then they'll have to pay their female players as it's Federal Law. We want nice tidy solutions, when there really isn't any.

    And if anyone thinks that their free tuition isn't "something" you're more than welcome to take over my non-something student loans.
    I don't think the players should get paid. I think that's a bad idea. Here's what I would change, in no particular order, if they changed the age limit to 2 years out of HS:

    1. If a player is determined to be a first round pick out of HS as a one-and-done, then the college's would pay an insurance premium for 2 years for that particular player. That's a great idea I had never thought of.

    2. College scholarships should cover everything, and they should be for 4 years. The only way a player could lose their scholarship is because of academics or legal issues, not because they weren't good enough. And I don't have a good answer on how to handle locker room malcontents.

    3. College players should be allowed to profit off their likeness, provided there is no involvement from an agent. If Yogi Ferrell gets paid for appearing in a car commercial in Bloomington, there's nothing wrong with that IMO.

    4. College players should be allowed to transfer without penalty, but they can't transfer within their own conference. So if a player signs with Indiana, they can't accept a scholarship from another Big Ten school.

    Things like that may be more realistic for the college player's union. JMO.
    Last edited by shags; 03-13-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If the argument is that Kwame Brown was a "failed" draft pick, because there were other better players drafted behind him, that applies to Hansbrough and just about everybody else ever drafted.
    Kwame wasn't a bust beause other players were better after him, he was a bust for the production he failed to produce. We sholdn't be evaluating Kwame's career based off what others did, but rather what he did and the expectations that was placed on him. And he didn't do much.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If the argument is that Kwame Brown was a "failed" draft pick, because there were other better players drafted behind him, that applies to Hansbrough and just about everybody else ever drafted.
    I never made that argument, but I do think it's ridiculous. Using this logic, the only pick that isn't a "failure" is the best player in the draft class.

    I think you have to look at expectations and draft position, and what the hit rate is for other players drafted in that player's range.

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