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Thread: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

  1. #176
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    I'm not sure why it is so terrible for players to go play for a college team, or how it is a scam.


    There will always be idiot GMs, see the Cavs, but overall I am willing to bet GMs draft much more accurately when evaluating college players than they are evaluating high school players.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    There are about 15 different arguments happening in this thread. I'm not sure any two people are arguing the same thing.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Completely fine with this as it will help the overall health of the NBA. I was all for the one year rule as it was just a crap shoot taking high schoolers. Teams were taking chances on 18 year old kids in hope it would bring them to the top and instead ended up just being huge busts. I would not mind if the NBA made it three years like the NFL.

    This will give teams more tape to watch and time to scout these young guys coming out. This will also help improve the competition in college basketball as more younger talented guys will be funneled into the system which in tern will help the guys already there. They actually get to play against better competition to show their skills and improve their skills.

    None of these kids coming out of high school have a right to a roster spot in the NBA. The NBA has ever right to place an age requirement on employment with a team.

    Sure there will be a few players here and there who can make the jump immediately, but most of them cannot nor should not. Them busting out because they make the jump to early to the NBA hurts the overall health of the NBA and that is what this rule would try to help with.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I'm not sure why it is so terrible for players to go play for a college team, or how it is a scam.


    There will always be idiot GMs, see the Cavs, but overall I am willing to bet GMs draft much more accurately when evaluating college players than they are evaluating high school players.
    Agreed. The league has flourished reasonably well by drafting college players for a very long time. When you have 30 first round draft picks each season, it's inevitable that some of them will be busts.

  7. #180
    The Mole ColeTheMole's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Simmons take:

    Q: How about a rule that restricts one-and-done players to a five year rookie deal and anyone who stays in college two years or longer to get a 4 year rookie deal?
    —Charles Smith, Brooklyn

    SG: I like it! That’s the biggest obstacle to Adam Silver’s desire for an under-20 age limit for the draft — every powerful agent despises that idea because it delays the second contract by one year. If Jabari leaves Duke this summer, he’d sign his max extension in 2018 and the contract would officially start in the 2018-19 season. If he doesn’t leave until 2015, that timetable gets pushed back to 2019 (extension) and the 2019-20 season (when it kicks in). That’s why you’ll see Jabari Parker awkwardly putting on a Jazz/Sixers/Celtics/Lakers/Bucks cap and hugging Adam Silver on June 26, 2014. It’s not about the first contract; it’s about the second one.

    I’d suggest this tweak: five-year rookie deals for one-and-done guys and under-20-year-olds; four-year rookie deals for two-and-done guys and 20-year-olds; and three-year rookie deals for everyone else. That would give prospects a real incentive to stay in school, right? Sadly, Silver can’t discuss this idea (or any draft-related tweaks) with the National Basketball Players Association because there’s nobody running it right now. Billy Hunter didn’t just run that thing into the ground; he packed it with explosives and detonated 60 years of history. Nobody seems to care. By the way? I’m not sure Silver and the owners care, either — they say publicly how it’s frustrating not to have anyone to negotiate with, but really, everything gets to stay the same for them as long as the players’ union is fractured. Right now, it’s an owner-friendly CBA. They’re raking in money. I don’t see the age limit thing changing any time soon.
    DG for 3

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  9. #181
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    I was thinking a compromise would be a different pay scale for rookies depending on years of post-HS experience, but I think it's even better with the idea by Charles Smith referenced by ColeTheMole: The less post-HS experience they have, the longer their rookie contract lasts AND the less it pays per year. And make the pay rates steep enough that young talents might seriously want to stay in college 1-4 years, too, while the straight-from-HS kids get relatively peanuts (yet still more than a lot of people make in a year doing their jobs) and have to commit to up to a 5 year deal.

    Just tossing this out without a ton of thought, mind you, but maybe something like this:

    Straight from high school players: 5 year deals, N per year
    1 year post-HS (college freshman, or 1 year in non-NBA league): 4 years, N x 2 per year
    2 years post-HS: 4 years, N x 3 per year
    3 years post-HS: 3 years, N x 4 per year
    4 years post-HS: 3 years, N x 5 per year

    Not sure how much "N" should be.

    *shrug*

  10. #182

    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    Completely fine with this as it will help the overall health of the NBA. I was all for the one year rule as it was just a crap shoot taking high schoolers. Teams were taking chances on 18 year old kids in hope it would bring them to the top and instead ended up just being huge busts. I would not mind if the NBA made it three years like the NFL.

    This will give teams more tape to watch and time to scout these young guys coming out. This will also help improve the competition in college basketball as more younger talented guys will be funneled into the system which in tern will help the guys already there. They actually get to play against better competition to show their skills and improve their skills.

    None of these kids coming out of high school have a right to a roster spot in the NBA. The NBA has ever right to place an age requirement on employment with a team.

    Sure there will be a few players here and there who can make the jump immediately, but most of them cannot nor should not. Them busting out because they make the jump to early to the NBA hurts the overall health of the NBA and that is what this rule would try to help with.
    Re: the highlighted part.

    None of the kids coming out of high school have a right to a roster spot in the NBA. But they do have the right to try to make the team. This is a free market issue. Not allowing them to try is restraint of trade. Unless, the union agrees to that restraint. A business and its union my collectively bargain work conditions that include age restrictions, but the business itself cannot impose them. The overall health of the league has nothing to do with the rights of the players to make the team.

  11. #183
    The Mole ColeTheMole's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Just tossing this out without a ton of thought, mind you, but maybe something like this:

    Straight from high school players: 5 year deals, N per year
    1 year post-HS (college freshman, or 1 year in non-NBA league): 4 years, N x 2 per year
    2 years post-HS: 4 years, N x 3 per year
    3 years post-HS: 3 years, N x 4 per year
    4 years post-HS: 3 years, N x 5 per year

    Not sure how much "N" should be.

    *shrug*
    Very good idea, but after thinking about this wouldn't it incentivize teams to draft kids that come straight out of high school? Lock em up on long deals for very little money. It would definitely give more reasons to kids to stay in school, but then any kid coming out of high school would get drafted high.
    DG for 3

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I'm not sure why it is so terrible for players to go play for a college team, or how it is a scam.


    There will always be idiot GMs, see the Cavs, but overall I am willing to bet GMs draft much more accurately when evaluating college players than they are evaluating high school players.
    I agree. You also get more mature players that stay in college longer
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColeTheMole View Post
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    Very good idea, but after thinking about this wouldn't it incentivize teams to draft kids that come straight out of high school? Lock em up on long deals for very little money. It would definitely give more reasons to kids to stay in school, but then any kid coming out of high school would get drafted high.
    I think that's a possibility, but that's why it's a compromise versus an obvious solution. It should also incentivize more players to NOT be there to be drafted straight out of high school, too.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    I don't think HS players are more difficult to scout than college players. The draft is a total crapshoot. Several college players drafted in the top 5 have been busts over the years. What hurts the game is that nobody is familiar with college players that only play one or two years. Draft is no longer about ability, but purely potential Back in the day, there were few surprises with early draft picks. GM's knew that Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan, etc were all going to be franchise players. In today's game, we get questions marks like Anthony Bennett, Michael Beasley, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist being drafted as if they are franchise players, even though nobody has any clue if they can actually play.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Andre Drummond, a potential number one overall pick, is forced to play one year of college. After a mediocre Freshman season, he falls all the way down to 9. The one and done rule costed Drummond $$. Some players are more fit to play NBA than college
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    I think that a potential draft pick can either declare for the draft after HS, or has to play a minimum of 3 years in college. After 3 years, GMs will know have a decent understanding of their game. If a GM has a hard on for potential, they can draft the HS player. If the GM wants a more seasoned, know what you are getting, type of player, draft the experienced college player
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Not only are NBA teams paying unproven 18 year olds to (hopefully) realize their potential, but the fans are, too. We ultimately pay their salaries, and I'm not thrilled about subsidizing the development of an 18 year old who is taking away from the strength of the team I follow. Remember all the time and energy it took to babysit Al Harrington when he first joined the team? And for what? So he could spend three years learning how to play in the NBA? That hurt the team YOU root for, and you helped pay for that.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    Not only are NBA teams paying unproven 18 year olds to (hopefully) realize their potential, but the fans are, too. We ultimately pay their salaries, and I'm not thrilled about subsidizing the development of an 18 year old who is taking away from the strength of the team I follow. Remember all the time and energy it took to babysit Al Harrington when he first joined the team? And for what? So he could spend three years learning how to play in the NBA? That hurt the team YOU root for, and you helped pay for that.
    Its called free market. You can vote with your dollars. Don't go.

    FO folks in the NBA are paid lots of money to bring their legendary skills to bear when evaluating whether someone has the ability to play in the NBA.

    18 year olds have to register for the selective service/join the military...
    can vote...
    serve on juries...
    and enter into contracts...

    It is arbitrary, anti-Free Market and unAmerican to develop rules which bar someone from earning the rightful fruits of their labor.

    You roll the dice and you take your chances...that's what makes America great.

    For every Kawme Brown, there is a Lebron James.
    For every Tim Duncan, there is a Tyler Hansbrough.

    The trick is figuring out which is which and there are no guarantees either way.
    Last edited by seeker80; 03-13-2014 at 03:41 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    Not only are NBA teams paying unproven 18 year olds to (hopefully) realize their potential, but the fans are, too. We ultimately pay their salaries, and I'm not thrilled about subsidizing the development of an 18 year old who is taking away from the strength of the team I follow. Remember all the time and energy it took to babysit Al Harrington when he first joined the team? And for what? So he could spend three years learning how to play in the NBA? That hurt the team YOU root for, and you helped pay for that.
    The lack of development of young players is a major reason the NBA wants to raise the eligibility age. That is true. The issue of me paying for that development is not really important because of the way to CBA works. The players are going to get 50% of the money, no matter who is on the team. If Al was not on the team, then someone like Mark Pope would have been. The money that will be paid is the same, basically, no matter who is on the team.

    The League is mainly concerned about two things. Wasted early round draft picks on guys like Jonathan Bender and, most importantly, not being able to use the cheap labor that the rookie contracts create. Let's take Lance Stephenson for an example. He spent two years learning how to play and two years playing. The value of his last two years far outweighs his salary. What the NBA wants to do is maximize his low-wage time on the job. Instead of two years of high level play for low wages, the NBA wants him to contribute 4 years of good play at low wages.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker80 View Post
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    It is arbitrary, anti-Free Market and unAmerican to develop rules which bar someone from earning the rightful fruits of their labor.
    Completely opposite. A free market doesn't mean that employers hire anyone. A free market means that it's free from government regulations. Age requirements imposed by employers fall squarely inside a free market.

    Business/Free markets have always been able to put forth their arbitrary job requirements.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    The lack of development of young players is a major reason the NBA wants to raise the eligibility age. That is true. The issue of me paying for that development is not really important because of the way to CBA works. The players are going to get 50% of the money, no matter who is on the team. If Al was not on the team, then someone like Mark Pope would have been. The money that will be paid is the same, basically, no matter who is on the team.
    I'm not worried about the amount of the money being spent, I'm more concerned with the value for the buck and the effect it has on the quality of the team I root for.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Completely opposite. A free market doesn't mean that employers hire anyone. A free market means that it's free from government regulations. Age requirements imposed by employers fall squarely inside a free market.

    Business/Free markets have always been able to put forth their arbitrary job requirements.
    I don't think you are correct. A free market means both labor and capital are free. Making restrictions about who can try out for the team is not a free market. Age requirements made by the employer restricting who can work are not free market.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I don't think you are correct. A free market means both labor and capital are free. Making restrictions about who can try out for the team is not a free market. Age requirements made by the employer restricting who can work are not free market.
    No.

    A free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are free of intervention by a government, price-setting monopolies, or other authority.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Completely opposite. A free market doesn't mean that employers hire anyone. A free market means that it's free from government regulations. Age requirements imposed by employers fall squarely inside a free market.

    Business/Free markets have always been able to put forth their arbitrary job requirements.
    And people have the right to sue if the rules are discriminatory and arbritrary.

    How do I know its arbritrary?

    Lebron James
    Kevin Garnett
    CJ Miles
    Brandon Jennings
    Kobe Bryant
    Moses Malone
    Connie Hawkins

    And yet 4 yr college players who were considered the BEST college players include

    Jimmer Freddette
    Tyler Hansbrough

    Let's say the mine owners and the UMW decides there will be an age limit 40 because "old people can't perform physical labor" at the rate a 21 yr old can

    Arbitrary...discriminatory...

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    You're free to sue for anything you'd like. I mean a 18y/o girl just tried suing her parents to force them to pay for her college tuition and a $650/stipend. But just like her, you'll lose. Age requirements have been set as legal for countless years. Maurice Clarrett tried suing the NFL over their age requirements and lost.

    Free makerts means that the employers can dictate their own terms for their business.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-13-2014 at 04:14 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You're free to sue for anything you'd like. I mean a 18y/o girl just tried suing her parents to force them to pay for her college tuition and a $650/stipend. But just like her, you'll lose. Age requirements have been set as legal for countless years. Maurice Clarrett tried suing the NFL over their age requirements and lost.

    Free makerts means that the employers can dictate their own terms for their business.

    .
    EDIT: A totally free market would mean employers would be able to discriminate against potential employees for anything they'd like. We do not have a free market. Calling age restrictions un-American shows ignorance about what America's policies have been for the past 80 years or so, since the Federal government introduced their own age requirements.

    No, they can dictate terms unless they violate federal law.

    I will grant that the 3 professional leagues have the scales of justice tilted in their favor because they are state sanctioned monopolies (one more than the others), but monopolies are the antithesis of free markets. And these monopolies are evident every time the taxpayers get screwed building one arena/stadium after another but that's different discussions for a different time.

    I know this, if Greg Oden has come up lame in his freshman year, instead of his rookie year and had been made to stay 3 years, it would have been one of the biggest screw jobs in history. And if I were a Cavs fan in 2003 and had to watch Lebron go pretend to be in college for a year or 3 years, I would have been pizzed.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker80 View Post
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    No, they can dictate terms unless they violate federal law.

    I will grant that the 3 professional leagues have the scales of justice tilted in their favor because they are state sanctioned monopolies (one more than the others), but monopolies are the antithesis of free markets. And these monopolies are evident every time the taxpayers get screwed building one arena/stadium after another but that's different discussions for a different time.
    You're just backwards on this. A totally free market would (or I guess I should say "could") have monopolies. Regulators say regulations are needed in order to stop monopolies.

    A free market means the market (business) is free to do what they'd like, without outside governmental control.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    By this definition, isn't the NBA itself creating a restriction by creating an age restriction. That seems to be a restriction on the individual businesses that are the players. It is also a collusion of 30 business to restrict who cannot go into business with them. The market to be free has to be free on both sides.

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