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Thread: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    I think honestly, why not have the NBA be like MLB or something, and let players be draft eligible after high school, allow them to be drafted asap, but they play in college for 1 or 2 years or whatever they decide, then they join the team that drafted them, and the pay goes from there, but it can only be FIRST round picks, aka guaranteed money. 2nd round picks straight out of high school can ignore their initial commitment from their team, play college and go back into the draft, if a guy blooms out of nowhere, then be picked in the 1st round.

    For example, Andrew Wiggins probably goes #1 last draft to the Cavs if he's draft eligible, but then has to play 1 or 2 seasons, wherever he decides to go, then once he's done with the commitment, he goes to the NBA.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    I think honestly, why not have the NBA be like MLB or something, and let players be draft eligible after high school, allow them to be drafted asap, but they play in college for 1 or 2 years or whatever they decide, then they join the team that drafted them, and the pay goes from there, but it can only be FIRST round picks, aka guaranteed money. 2nd round picks straight out of high school can ignore their initial commitment from their team, play college and go back into the draft, if a guy blooms out of nowhere, then be picked in the 1st round.

    For example, Andrew Wiggins probably goes #1 last draft to the Cavs if he's draft eligible, but then has to play 1 or 2 seasons, wherever he decides to go, then once he's done with the commitment, he goes to the NBA.
    That would honestly be bad for all parties. I don't see any NBA team being ok with that. I am guess said player doesn't get paid during this 2 year period? How would you get a player who already have millions lined up to play hard for his college team? Honestly I would just have Wiggins sit out that two years if I am his agent. I would guess the only upside is the team that drafts the said player would likely pay that players insurance,but even that doesn't make sense for the team.


    That is not how the MLB model works. In MLB You can be drafted out of HS and you either sign with the team that picks you(and start playing pro ball right away normally in rookie ball or low A if you are an advanced prospect) or you go to college and can't be drafted again for 3 years. That model makes sense. If you don't get life changing draft money you go to college. This model would be perfect for HS players who slip into the 2nd round of the draft in basketball or even go undrafted.


    But Kstat is right this all boils down to scouts and NBA personal wanting more time to scout players. It sucks for the players, but the NBA is a business they can really do whatever the **** they want.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    But Kstat is right this all boils down to scouts and NBA personal wanting more time to scout players. It sucks for the players, but the NBA is a business they can really do whatever the **** they want.
    They can't do anything without the players agreeing to it. This is Silver setting up the next round of CBA negotiations.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    They can't do anything without the players agreeing to it. This is Silver setting up the next round of CBA negotiations.
    There is no reason for current players not to go along with this. Job protection and keeping one's paycheck is much more important than giving someone else the chance to come in and take your spot. The less competition the better.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    But Kstat is right this all boils down to scouts and NBA personal wanting more time to scout players. It sucks for the players, but the NBA is a business they can really do whatever the **** they want.
    And marketing. Don't forget marketing. It's easier to sell people to watch kids they've played in college for 2 years play in the pros than it is 1 year or no years.
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    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    They can't do anything without the players agreeing to it. This is Silver setting up the next round of CBA negotiations.
    the players have no reason not to agree to it. They represent their current membership, not players that might be in the future.

    The more teenagers kept out of the NBA, the more 12-15 year veterans that get to stick around. Any vote put to the player reps would pass overwhelmingly.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-12-2014 at 05:57 AM.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Except last time they passed the one and done rule it took a lot of work to get it done and lots of players still hate it. If it was such a cake walk then they would have done it last time, when the owners were pushing for two years. The players union doesn't want more restrictions put in place by the owners. Every inch they give up means one inch more inch of turf for the owners.

    If I had to guess, Silver will probably get this done because he's already staked it as his first battle and he's not gonna want to lose, but it's gonna cost him something to get it done.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    It didn't take a lot of work at all. The nba wanted it, they got it. The players will of course use it as a chip to get something they want, but in the end they will gladly offer it up instead of something they actually care about.

    And no, the current players don't hate it. They may not agree with it, but they like keeping their jobs more. It does not hurt them one bit.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    It would help the NBA bring in more mature players. Mature players would enhance teams, which would enhance the action. Yes, younger players give you more years to have them develop in the NBA, but some guys don't develop their full potential until they're in their mid 20s, so 2 maybe 3 years in college will teach them discipline and help develop their talent even more.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It didn't take a lot of work at all. The nba wanted it, they got it. The players will of course use it as a chip to get something they want, but in the end they will gladly offer it up instead of something they actually care about.

    And no, the current players don't hate it. They may not agree with it, but they like keeping their jobs more. It does not hurt them one bit.
    How does 2 years of college as opposed to 1 help a current player keep their job? If Andrew Wiggins isn't allowed to come out this year, someone else will be drafted number one and have the same guaranteed contract. That draft pick doesn't evaporate, it just goes to the next best player. Same for the next 29 first round picks and 15-25 2nd round and undrafted players.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Whats good for the league is beside the point.
    Really? The NBA's policies about their employees shouldn't take into account what's good for the NBA?
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You are right the NBA wants these players to develop their skills before they actually enter into the NBA, just like most industries. The way they view it, it takes about two years to earn the basketball equivalent of a degree. Now if these players are not willing to accept college or, if you will, an unpaid internship to develop those skills they do have other options. They can go over to Europe. The truth is saying they are unpaid is naive. If they have any chance at the NBA they are there on scholarship. They may not be getting paid in money, but they are being provided for and are getting a free education. They are getting well compensated.

    By the way, Lebron's body was mature enough out of high school to go straight to the NFL. These rules aren't designed with the Lebron Jameses of the world in mind. As well, it is a bit presumptuous to assume that I didn't have marketable skills out of high school. Did I need to refine and develop my skills further, maybe even broaden my skill set? Most certainly, but so did most of the players who declared for the NBA straight out of high school.

    The facts are just about every job has a certain amount of requirements in order to be considered. Many of them can seem to be quite arbitrary, especially when you are not aware of the reasons for the requirement. These requirements are almost always in place in order to try to find the right person with the most skills. This is no different. The NBA sees a need for these players to wait until they mature as players, and probably people too, before they decide to hire them as employees. Unlike most industries you don't have the option to go back to college to improve your skills and prove yourself after you have declared for the NBA.
    So what year did you declare for the NBA straight out of high school?

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Really? The NBA's policies about their employees shouldn't take into account what's good for the NBA?
    I wasn't talking about the NBA's stance. They're a business and their goal is to negotiate in their best interest.

    I was talking about my own idea of what is ethically right in this situation. Wal-Mart's policies towards their employees helps Wal-Mart greatly, I just disagree with them. What's good for Wal-Mart isn't what I think is ethically correct.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I wasn't talking about the NBA's stance. They're a business and their goal is to negotiate in their best interest.

    I was talking about my own idea of what is ethically right in this situation. Wal-Mart's policies towards their employees helps Wal-Mart greatly, I just disagree with them. What's good for Wal-Mart isn't what I think is ethically correct.
    Without getting in a big economics debate, you should. The NBA should be looking for it's best qualified candidates to put the best product on the floor. We don't buy swiffer products, because of their potential. We don't buy gas, because of it's potential. We don't watch NCAA basketball, because of their potential. The NBA is a product driven market, and what's good for the NBA usually results in betterment for their employees.

    Handing out contracts to players like Lenny Cooke, since he was brought up earlier, only makes the NBA finanacial situation worse. It weakens the league, and in turn, will even up weakening the potential earnings for all NBA players.

    Age, just like character, is a concept take isn't visual from a consumer side of the table, but it is extremely visable from the interior. Ethics doesn't put food on the table. I don't think it's ethical that NBA players make millions upon millions of dollars for playing a game where they put a leather ball through a metal hoop, while we have people out there getting killed (military/police) making pennies on the dollar.
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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    So what year did you declare for the NBA straight out of high school?
    Well since I wasn't talking about basketball, never.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I wasn't talking about the NBA's stance. They're a business and their goal is to negotiate in their best interest.

    I was talking about my own idea of what is ethically right in this situation. Wal-Mart's policies towards their employees helps Wal-Mart greatly, I just disagree with them. What's good for Wal-Mart isn't what I think is ethically correct.
    Not sure what ethics have to do with it. There is nothing unethical about having job requirements.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Without getting in a big economics debate, you should. The NBA should be looking for it's best qualified candidates to put the best product on the floor. We don't buy swiffer products, because of their potential. We don't buy gas, because of it's potential. We don't watch NCAA basketball, because of their potential. The NBA is a product driven market, and what's good for the NBA usually results in betterment for their employees.

    Handing out contracts to players like Lenny Cooke, since he was brought up earlier, only makes the NBA finanacial situation worse. It weakens the league, and in turn, will even up weakening the potential earnings for all NBA players.

    Age, just like character, is a concept take isn't visual from a consumer side of the table, but it is extremely visable from the interior. Ethics doesn't put food on the table. I don't think it's ethical that NBA players make millions upon millions of dollars for playing a game where they put a leather ball through a metal hoop, while we have people out there getting killed (military/police) making pennies on the dollar.
    Except what you're arguing for is the opposite of what you want. Andrew Wiggins is better than a large percentage of NBA players right now. He's being artificially kept out of the NBA even though his being in it would enhance the product.

    Lenny Cooke wasn't drafted, and never played in the NBA. He was never handed a contract.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Except what you're arguing for is the opposite of what you want. Andrew Wiggins is better than a large percentage of NBA players right now. He's being artificially kept out of the NBA even though his being in it would enhance the product.
    And you know this because you've seen Wiggins play in the NBA? Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, we don't know that right now so there's really no need to argue opinion as fact. But if Wiggins is worried about money, he could have always went the NBDL or Europe route. He doesn't have the right to play in the NBA, when he or anyone else thinks he should.


    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Lenny Cooke wasn't drafted, and never played in the NBA. He was never handed a contract.
    My bad. Swap him out with any of the other uncountable kids that got a contract based on potential and then never panned out.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And you know this because you've seen Wiggins play in the NBA? Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, we don't know that right now so there's really no need to argue opinion as fact. But if Wiggins is worried about money, he could have always went the NBDL or Europe route. He doesn't have the right to play in the NBA, when he or anyone else thinks he should.
    He absolutely is, without a doubt. The NBDL and Europe are not satisfactory alternatives. Unless the NCAA radically transforms how they compensate players then there is no satisfactory alternative, which is why I think this situation is ethically wrong.

    My bad. Swap him out with any of the other uncountable kids that got a contract based on potential and then never panned out.
    High school players who went straight to the NBA were extremely good at self selecting. A far higher percentage are all star and MVPs than players who went to college. Holding up one or two bad examples is flawed. Otherwise I could hold up Adam Morrison as an example of why letting players play more than one year in college should be outlawed. One or two or six bad players is not a trend.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    He absolutely is, without a doubt. The NBDL and Europe are not satisfactory alternatives. Unless the NCAA radically transforms how they compensate players then there is no satisfactory alternative, which is why I think this situation is ethically wrong.
    Why? Because they don't pay as much?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Except what you're arguing for is the opposite of what you want. Andrew Wiggins is better than a large percentage of NBA players right now. He's being artificially kept out of the NBA even though his being in it would enhance the product.

    Lenny Cooke wasn't drafted, and never played in the NBA. He was never handed a contract.
    You're essentially arguing that an employment policy should be geared toward the exceptional high school player, when the results in the past often were that non-superstar high school players were drafted because you had to take the risk. Would it have hurt Al Harrington to have some more years pre-NBA? Would it have let teams have more info on Jonathan Bender?

    I'd love to see a real development league along the lines of the minor leagues in baseball - I think that completely solves the problem. Go back to 3 rounds, let teams draft the hot guys in the first round and the potential guys in the 3rd round and send the ones who need it to the D-League.
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  31. #47

    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Why? Because they don't pay as much?
    Because one is on a different continent and one doesn't pay enough.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Because one is on a different continent and one doesn't pay enough.
    So the sense of entitlement makes it unsatisfactory.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  34. #49

    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    You're essentially arguing that an employment policy should be geared toward the exceptional high school player, when the results in the past often were that non-superstar high school players were drafted because you had to take the risk. Would it have hurt Al Harrington to have some more years pre-NBA? Would it have let teams have more info on Jonathan Bender?

    I'd love to see a real development league along the lines of the minor leagues in baseball - I think that completely solves the problem. Go back to 3 rounds, let teams draft the hot guys in the first round and the potential guys in the 3rd round and send the ones who need it to the D-League.
    Not geared toward, just accepting of candidates who are already qualified. Nobody forced NBA teams to take a risk on high school players. If you wanted to you could, plenty chose not to.

    I doubt it it would have altered Al Harrigton's career at all to go to college, but who knows. Maybe he would have fallen down a flight of stairs and broken his neck. Or maybe he would have developed into the next MJ. I still think he'd be the same player.

    I would love love a real developmental league and agree it would solve many problems. Sending gifted players to college who don't want to be there, or making them play in Europe is not the right answer, at least in my opinion.

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    Default Re: NBA to raise minimum age to 20?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So the sense of entitlement makes it unsatisfactory.
    If I was able to a job and they forced me to work a year as an intern in Fort Wayne or go live in Latvia then I would disagree out of principle not entitlement.
    Last edited by King Tuts Tomb; 03-12-2014 at 10:46 AM.

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