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Thread: bynum will play tonight

  1. #51

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
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    Who's job? Franks job isn't in question IMO...just because a few fans in a message board are callin for his head means nothing


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    Not now but, you honestly think if we don't advance past Miami this post-season. After all the good pieces Larry has given Frank. That he'll just allow him to stay? Frank has shown a lack of imagination with his rotations and chess-matching with other teams lineups.

  2. #52

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    The real question is if Frank wises up and uses Butler and Copeland....
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  4. #53

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    The real question is if Frank wises up and uses Butler and Copeland....
    If he's gonna play a starter with the bench, it should be PG. With Copeland, Butler, Turner, and Bynum. Lance is too ball dominant for Evan to be a factor.

  5. #54
    Member pogi's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Not really. I think when Evan is off the dribble, he has more direction. Lance sometimes gets caught up in being too fancy. Evan knows where he wants to go, and knows how to get there.
    Disagree. Evans has put up just as many, if not more, "what-are-you-doing!" shots.

  6. #55
    Redemption. docpaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    From my eyes at least, what I see in Turner is:

    1) lack of discipline in his game, no consistency in coaching and team composition, and no real strong hand in coaching outside of Collins where he did pretty well
    2) good effort on the defensive end (shows most on his man coverage), but doesn't understand the system and gets lost on switches
    3) getting acclimated in a milieu of team malaise

    The kid's got potential for sure, but sure isn't screaming out during his play.

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  8. #56

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by pogi View Post
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    Disagree. Evans has put up just as many, if not more, "what-are-you-doing!" shots.
    Not really. Evan hasn't taken more than 14 shots in a game with us. His highest shot-attempt game was in Charlotte where he was 9 of 12. I am not sure what you guys are seeing in terms of him jacking up shots. He may take one bad one to get the team going off the bench or get himself going but what player doesn't? And in these last few games where we've fallen behind by double-digits, I think he has tried to take the instant offense role on quite nicely. While not taking a ton of shots.

  9. #57
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    I think some of the shots Turner takes can be perceived as "bad shots" because his shot is so unorthodox.

  10. #58
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Frank's job isn't dependent on how this season goes.
    True. But how this season goes will be the first time Frank Vogel gets judged.

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    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    I think some of the shots Turner takes can be perceived as "bad shots" because his shot is so unorthodox.
    He takes a fair bit of contested fadeaways too.

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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    This thread is all over the place. From Bynum to Turner to Vogel and back about 3 times. I'll address all 3.

    1. I'm excited to see what Bynum has to offer. Looking way too far into that quote from Frank, it looks like they were testing Bynum to see how far they could push the knee for the playoff run. It painfully obvious Bynum's injury is much more "pain-management" than "recovery," so it will be fun to see how his knee reacts to game minutes. Shame for a guy that young but that's always the chance when you are that size.

    2. As for Turner, I only expect him to get more consistent. He is still trying to find his game on a team that uses very strict offensive/defensive sets (complete opposite of Philly) and with a bench that is currently a mess. I have a feeling if Lance was balling out with the bench and Scola was hitting shots, Turner would look a lot more comfortable. The only potential issue I see is lining him up next to Scola on defense. When I see them next to each other near the basket, I tell myself the other team is going to score before it happens. And it always happens. Hopefully Bynum helps with that.

    3. Vogel's job is 100% safe, unless we get swept in the first round. So 99.9% safe.

  13. #61

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    He takes a fair bit of contested fadeaways too.
    If you remember the first game he played for us, he came off a screen and hit a jumper in the first half. That was after his first shot, which was a fade away. That off the screen short jumper is HIS SHOT. Frank's gotta find a way to get him that shot more often. With Bynum and maybe Copeland in the bench unit, setting screens for that look shouldn't be a problem.

  14. #62

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    This thread is all over the place. From Bynum to Turner to Vogel and back about 3 times. I'll address all 3.

    1. I'm excited to see what Bynum has to offer. Looking way too far into that quote from Frank, it looks like they were testing Bynum to see how far they could push the knee for the playoff run. It painfully obvious Bynum's injury is much more "pain-management" than "recovery," so it will be fun to see how his knee reacts to game minutes. Shame for a guy that young but that's always the chance when you are that size.

    2. As for Turner, I only expect him to get more consistent. He is still trying to find his game on a team that uses very strict offensive/defensive sets (complete opposite of Philly) and with a bench that is currently a mess. I have a feeling if Lance was balling out with the bench and Scola was hitting shots, Turner would look a lot more comfortable. The only potential issue I see is lining him up next to Scola on defense. When I see them next to each other near the basket, I tell myself the other team is going to score before it happens. And it always happens. Hopefully Bynum helps with that.

    3. Vogel's job is 100% safe, unless we get swept in the first round. So 99.9% safe.


    Small forward/guards aren't usually known for their rim protection. Our PF and Center are supposed to do that. That's why I'd like to see Copeland/Allen play instead of Scola. Their young legs would help us better defensively.

  15. #63
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Calling Turner a bust at this point is ridiculous, but judging them just on their points scored isn't exactly a great barometer. Especially when you consider ET's very real struggles defensively. I seem to be in my own lifeboat on this subject, but I thought Granger, for all his atrocious play on offense, was actually defending pretty well.

    Frankly I would not judge any of our bench players based on how they play here. Something is wrong with the style here that leads to the bench players
    being totally ineffective. Too short a leash? Poor offensive sets? What is it?
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    True. But how this season goes will be the first time Frank Vogel gets judged.
    No way. He was judged prior to getting his new contract. He was judged prior to being given his first contract.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  17. #65

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Frankly I would not judge any of our bench players based on how they play here. Something is wrong with the style here that leads to the bench players
    being totally ineffective. Too short a leash? Poor offensive sets? What is it?
    Probably the sets. Frank needs to use more, different ones. Or maybe he's holding back some stuff for the playoffs?

  18. #66
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I think so a bit. Larry has given him all the pieces. If he doesn't utilize them correctly, maybe Larry should find someone who will. There are good coaches out there who don't have jobs right now. Heck, Woodson in NY would be interesting. He's almost out of a job, and the terrible roster in NY never really gave him a chance to compete.
    Oh my goodness. As a New York State resident my cable TV package gives me access to every Knicks game and this would be bad. Real bad. My long time suffering Knicks fan brother couldn't even believe a Pacers fan would bring up the idea.

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  20. #67

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    Oh my goodness. As a New York State resident my cable TV package gives me access to every Knicks game and this would be bad. Real bad. My long time suffering Knicks fan brother couldn't even believe a Pacers fan would bring up the idea.
    I have liked Frank from the beginning, but this slide has ticked me off with him. Guy keeps rolling out a dude who's in a shooting slump. When he has a younger, more spry, and energetic long-range shooter who plays the same position, on the bench who could score in bunches in a matter of minutes! Copeland's 9 points in 3 minutes vs Charlotte wasn't good enough for him?

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    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    If you remember the first game he played for us, he came off a screen and hit a jumper in the first half. That was after his first shot, which was a fade away. That off the screen short jumper is HIS SHOT. Frank's gotta find a way to get him that shot more often. With Bynum and maybe Copeland in the bench unit, setting screens for that look shouldn't be a problem.
    Man you are defending Turner like he's your kid or something. I realize that he can (and does) hit those fade away jumpers, but that doesn't mean some of them aren't bad shots given the flow of the offense, time remaining on the shot clock, and the guy guarding him. I have some of the same issues with PG's shot selection.

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  23. #69
    Member Johanvil's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Man you are defending Turner like he's your kid or something. I realize that he can (and does) hit those fade away jumpers, but that doesn't mean some of them aren't bad shots given the flow of the offense, time remaining on the shot clock, and the guy guarding him. I have some of the same issues with PG's shot selection.
    Come on cdash. It's pretty easy why he defends Turner like that. He is the one trade he got right out of the thousand ones he has suggested so far.
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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  25. #70

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Man you are defending Turner like he's your kid or something. I realize that he can (and does) hit those fade away jumpers, but that doesn't mean some of them aren't bad shots given the flow of the offense, time remaining on the shot clock, and the guy guarding him. I have some of the same issues with PG's shot selection.
    Well we have no shooters off the bench. He was brought here to shoot. Certainly isn't gonna be Ian or Scola taking those off the dribble jumpers. This is also why Lance with the 2nd unit is a bad idea. If Lance is hot in the 1st quarter, why would he wanna take more shots in quarter 2, instead of getting others involved? Our bench really needs to be split into a separate unit from the starters. With a starter playing with the bench sporadically.

  26. #71

    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Come on cdash. It's pretty easy why he defends Turner like that. He is the one trade he got right out of the thousand ones he has suggested so far.
    HA! I predicted Granger would get traded. I thought Larry would go for a bomber like Meeks or CJ Miles though. But he wanted someone who had a more complete game I guess.

  27. #72
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: bynum will play tonight

    he's fat, but he does not suck...

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