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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

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  • Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

    Overall I don't think turnovers are as big of an issue as many make them out to be.

    Looking at the team stats for turnovers there would appear to be no correlation between winning and the number of turnovers a team commits.

    Let look at some of the top teams

    Rockets - 29th in the NBA at 15.6 per game
    OKC - 28th in the NBA at 15.3 per game
    Warriors - 26th in the NBA at 15.2
    Phoenix - 24th at 14.8
    Bulls - 21st at 14.7
    Pacers - 20th at 14.6
    Spurs - 19th at 14.5
    Heat - 16th at 14.4
    Blazers - 9th at 13.6
    Raptors - 7th at 13.5
    Clippers 7th at 13.5
    Mavs - 4th at 13.0
    Grizzles 3rd at 12.7

    So where is the correlation. I don't see it. And how many times have you heard that OKC is commiting too many turnovers or that the heat and Spurs who are basically committing as many as the pacers are committing too many. 6 of the best teams in the NBA are in the lowest 1/3 in committing turnovers.

    I mean sure it is better to committ fewer, but the correlation between being a team that commits few turnovers and being a top team - I don't see it.

    I expect someone to muddy the waters and suggest that because of the pace the Pacers play at it really is a problem.

    I think a much bigger problem is shooting percentage. Only teams to shoot worse than the Pacers at the Knicks, Nets, Cavs, Magic, Grizzlies, Celtics, Bobcats, Jazz, Bucks, and Bulls.

    Where as the top ten teams are the Clippers, Blazers, Rockets, T-wolves, OKC, Suns, Spurs, Mavs, Heat and Warriors.

    There are no elite teams that rank less than 10th in FG shooting percentage and the pacers are 20th. No other elite team ranks below 10th. That is our problem offensively. Our ability to get good shots and make shots - but it isn't turnovers.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-10-2014, 01:44 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

    It depends on who the turnovers are committed against and when. Turning the ball over 20 times and only giving up 10 points off of them is pretty negligable, for example, while turning it over 20 times and giving up 30 points can be crippling.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

      Someone should show that to Barkley next time he brings it up on TNT. By listening to him, you'd think the Pacers are the only playoff team with turnover issues.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

        Originally posted by Shade View Post
        It depends on who the turnovers are committed against and when. Turning the ball over 20 times and only giving up 10 points off of them is pretty negligable, for example, while turning it over 20 times and giving up 30 points can be crippling.

        OK, so are you suggesting the Pacers commit more live turnovers than lets say the Heat, Spurs and the teams who rank worse than we do? I have no idea. We would have to see points off turnovers to determine that

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

          I think a lot of times our turnovers are preventable and thus frustrating. The cute passes and attempted top 10 plays that result in turnovers could easily be preventable.

          You will never be able to eliminate all turnover, as they are part of the game. We seem to have an abundance of turnovers which can easily be avoided by making the simple play as opposed to trying for a Sportscenter top 10 play though.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

            I think you are looking at the turnovers from a skewed perspective. An average number of turnovers may in fact mean very little. However the turnover margin within an individual game has a lot of significance. For example, we play a scrub team and commit 20 turnovers, they commit 18 turnovers and we have a positive rebounding margin, our average number of turnovers is ticked a little higher but it really doesn't mean much for the game in question.

            Let's look at the Mavs game. We had 20 turnovers, the Mavs 10 and they held a +5 margin of the offensive boards. The fact that they had 14 more shots than us bears this out. Why did we lose the game? Because of the margins I've indicated.

            Do you still think that turnovers aren't all that important?

            We play a lousy team and we can probably find other ways to make up a -8 or -10 turnover differential. We play a good team, and we'd better have our ball-handling and decision-making under control. We have a -10 differential against the Heat and we are eternally screwed.

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            • #7
              Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

              Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
              OK, so are you suggesting the Pacers commit more live turnovers than lets say the Heat, Spurs and the teams who rank worse than we do? I have no idea. We would have to see points off turnovers to determine that
              It's a strong possibility. Miami and SA are also transition teams that can get back on D faster off of a live TO than the Pacers usually.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                I'd agree that it isn't just the turnovers, but I think when you combine them with the Pacers' other flaws they become a problem. Take the turnovers and link them to shooting (either FG% or eFG% or whatever), for instance. If a team is low at shooting, it would follow that a turnover is more harmful than it would be to a team that shoots better but turns the ball over similarly.
                BillS

                A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                  OK beast you make a good point. Let look at turnover margin. I guess no I don't think turnovers are a huge problem for the pacers. If you want to look at team stats FG shooting % is much more of a problem. Because all the other elite teams are in the top ten - we are 20th. Turnovers - many elite teams are in the bottom 3rd and several others in the middle third.

                  But lets look at turover margins

                  Pacers committ .08 more turnovers than they force. Which once again puts us as 20th worst in the NBA

                  Rockets are -2.1 - 29th
                  Blazers - 1.9 - 26th
                  Spurs -1 - 24th
                  OKC and the Bulls are tied with us at -.08.

                  the heat do quite well as they are +1.6.
                  Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-10-2014, 01:56 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                    Not all turnovers are created equal.

                    Turnovers are only a problem when they occur in a way that the team turning the ball over has a diminished capacity to defend against the resulting change in possession, or if the turnover prevents what otherwise would have been a high efficiency scoring opportunity.

                    Earlier in the season, the Pacers had higher ability to defend overall, which somewhat diminished the impact of the turnovers. Also, there may have been a higher percentage of the turnovers that simply went out of bounds as opposed to resulting in a live ball change of possession.

                    Higher turnover numbers also diminsh the flow of the offense, leading to an overall decrease in offensive efficiency, especially for a team that relies heavily on players creating their own shots as opposed to having an offense designed to both encourage better shot selection and make opposing teams work longer and harder on defense.

                    So, while the turnovers weren't as much of an issue earlier in the season, they are much moreso now IMO.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                      OUr transition D has been the bigger issue lately IMO, but that's just an eye test thing don't know if the stats back it up.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                        Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                        OUr transition D has been the bigger issue lately IMO, but that's just an eye test thing don't know if the stats back it up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                          I think another reason turnovers get hyped so hard for the Pacers is because we assume/know that at some point we're going to come across Miami and they absolutely are fantastic at converting live ball TOs, so they are the team where turnovers could really hurt us, so it gets more focus than say if we were going through a San Antonio.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                            Turnovers themselves are not the problem, it is unforced turnovers that is the problem. We have a high amount of unforced turnovers which without statistics will exaggerate how many turnovers we commit in the viewer's eyes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Are turnovers really a problem for the Pacers. I say nope

                              OK, so then lets look at how many steals teams get against us. Because those are live right?

                              We are 8th best in this category. Teams get 7.2 steals against us. No problem there.

                              OK, so you say well maybe teams get a lot of blocked shots against us and those can turn into almost like a live turnover - although they are not counted as such. We get 4.5 shots blocked per game. which puts us tied for 11th best - 11th fewest.

                              we are 26th in assist to turnover ratio.

                              We are 27th in our assists per game. That seems like a much bigger problem than turnovers. Although we allow by far the fewest number of assists per game, we are a plus two in this category
                              Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-10-2014, 02:12 PM.

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