Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 181

Thread: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

  1. #101
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,640

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    seriously, the line just needs to open up some holes for Turner
    Let's place blame on the new guy, Trent Rich--I mean Evan Turner.

    Ridiculous, I know. Players should be able to overcome everything, all the time. Regardless of the funk around them. No excuses. Mid-season trade be damned, they are both really sucky players.

    Seriously, your strange relationship with my thoughts on TRich are a little creepy, considering I don't really remember your contributions to those discussions and it's been awhile.

    Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-09-2014 at 11:57 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kid Minneapolis For This Useful Post:


  3. #102
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    31,038

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    and quit after he coached 3 seasons...

    but the way this season has gone with first him signing Bynum and then trading Granger....anything is possible...and it seems if you think something is highly unlikely then it stands a real chance of happening...
    Bird quit after 3 seasons due to health issues more than anything else.

    I'm not sure what signing Bynum or trading Granger has to do with Vogel, but I think the biggest issue with any suggestion of canning Vogel is that there is no superior replacement. And I really do think punting on a 40 year old coach who has already taken the team to a conference finals and has a career 63% winning percentage would be a terrible idea.

    But hey, what can I say, I wanted Carlisle fired and I got my wish there, but that was a very good example of being careful what you wish for. And as I said in another thread a lot of the complaints people have about Vogel were the same issues people had with Carlisle.

    Also, I don't really know what you're getting at with the last bit, but yes I, like just about everyone else, thought there was very little chance of us trading Granger, however I was on board with pursuing Bynum.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-09-2014 at 11:56 PM.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  5. #103
    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    2,333

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    I don't blame Frank one bit. Frank went on record pre-deadline and said we didn't need to make any moves. Who knows the team day in and day out better than the head coach? Bird chose not to listen to him. Even conceding that he might have improved the team on paper, we know how that works. Just look at the Lakers last year. You choose not to listen to your coach, the responsibility for what happens falls at your feet. If Bird is angry, there's only one person to be angry at. Himself.

  6. #104
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    31,038

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    I really don't see how the last 4 games play out any differently with Granger vs. Turner.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  8. #105
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,155

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Love the passion here. I firmly believe that Copeland is not the answer. Also Frank is still the same coach he was when they had the best record in the EC , btw , they still do.
    Frank is definitely the same coach. The only issue is that his 9-man rotation doesn't seem to be working anymore. I just want him to use all the weapons that he has in his bench. Copeland is one of them but he's not the only one. I just want to see him try something new to help the guys on the floor, that's all.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  10. #106
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,640

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    4-game losing streak, and people are calling for Vogel's head.... . Hilarious. How soon 'til the Bird calls?

    Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Kid Minneapolis For This Useful Post:


  12. #107
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,636

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Let's place blame on the new guy, Trent Rich--I mean Evan Turner.

    Ridiculous, I know. Players should be able to overcome everything, all the time. Regardless of the funk around them. No excuses. Mid-season trade be damned, they are both really sucky players.

    Seriously, your strange relationship with my thoughts on TRich are a little creepy, considering I don't really remember your contributions to those discussions and it's been awhile.

    Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk
    It was just a joke. One of dal9's many one-liners. Funny! Comedy! Humor! ^_^

  13. #108
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,155

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I really don't see how the last 4 games play out any differently with Granger vs. Turner.
    The Golden State game could have been different. Turner shot 0/5 in this game (and contributed only 1 assist and 3 rebounds) and we lost the game by 2.

    The other 3 wouldn't be different just like you said.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  14. #109
    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    2,333

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I really don't see how the last 4 games play out any differently with Granger vs. Turner.
    Is Turner even a net positive on the court? At least Granger was.

    And that's without considering chemistry and "togetherness" off the court.

  15. #110
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    31,038

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well, you cite giving them minutes, but I'm not saying Vogel doesn't give the bench minutes. I'm saying what they do while they're on the floor is wasting (at least in Evan Turner's case) their talent. Surely they can be used better than that.
    Ok I guess, but what would you have had him do differently with Green and DJ? I already said I don't understand what happened to the Turner isos that were working well.

    However, Green not only got minutes off the bench, he got a chance to start. DJ even started games and looked poor with the starters. He was bad in Toronto too, I'm not taking issue with what you said about Turner, but I do think it's a little silly to say that Green or DJ playing well in totally different situations suddenly proves that Vogel was misusing them.

    Did you guys really want DJ being a ball dominant point guard here? That is what he is in Chicago and he still has some really bad games. Yeah he was great today, but the last time they played Miami he was like 1/10 or something like that. Augustin shot 34% from the field in February for crying out loud! It's not like he's really setting the world on fire.

    Green was also never as bad as some made him out to be. He had one really bad shooting month in January, but otherwise performed alright offensively.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  16. #111
    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    2,333

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The Golden State game could have been different. Turner shot 0/5 in this game (and contributed only 1 assist and 3 rebounds) and we lost the game by 2.

    The other 3 wouldn't be different just like you said.
    And this game? And the Houston game? Do you really want to break it down game by game? Or perhaps play by play? I thought a certain five min stretch in tonight's first half summed him up pretty well.

  17. #112
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    31,038

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    We lost the last 3 games by a combined 59 points. We're not going to win those games with Danny Granger or Evan Turner off the bench.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  19. #113
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    31,038

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is Turner even a net positive on the court? At least Granger was.

    And that's without considering chemistry and "togetherness" off the court.
    Granger was not a net positive on the court since early January.

    The team was struggling just like this when Granger was traded. Nothing has really changed. Turner actually gave us a nice boost when he got here with his iso sets, but those have totally disappeared, now we have him spending too much time off the ball on the perimeter.

    This team really needs some practice days at home. Something they didn't get all week. This started with the GS game and then we had zero practice time and it's snowballed without it.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  21. #114
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,155

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And this game? And the Houston game? Do you really want to break it down game by game? Or perhaps play by play? I thought a certain five min stretch in tonight's first half summed him up pretty well.
    The margin of the score was so big in the Houston and Charlotte games that it wouldn't make a difference. I don't think that it would make a difference tonight either. And do you know why I think that?

    We wouldn't be running plays for Granger just like we don't do it for Evan. The way that the bench is used should change, imo.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  23. #115
    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    2,333

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We lost the last 3 games by a combined 59 points. We're not going to win those games with Danny Granger or Evan Turner off the bench.
    How do you know for sure? Maybe losing Granger was the straw that broke the camel's back?

    Teams don't play in a vacuum. It's not like some computational, perfectly calculated "plug in X for Y and you get Z" situation. It's more like every piece is connected in a delicate balance. It's not what Granger contributes or what Turner doesn't, but how the team as a whole plays with one rather than the other. Group dynamics. Personally, I don't think they're even playing as a team anymore. They're not a unit. They're individual pieces trying to find their identity again.

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kuq_e_Zi91 For This Useful Post:


  25. #116
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,155

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How do you know for sure? Maybe losing Granger was the straw that broke the camel's back?

    Teams don't play in a vacuum. It's not like some computational, perfectly calculated "plug in X for Y and you get Z" situation. It's more like every piece is connected in a delicate balance. It's not what Granger contributes or what Turner doesn't, but how the team as a whole plays with one rather than the other. Group dynamics. Personally, I don't think they're even playing as a team anymore. They're not a unit. They're individual pieces trying to find their identity again.
    It could be true. I don't know. No one knows except from the players themselves. We can only speculate at this point. We'll see what happens.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  26. #117
    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    2,333

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Granger was not a net positive on the court since early January.

    The team was struggling just like this when Granger was traded. Nothing has really changed. Turner actually gave us a nice boost when he got here with his iso sets, but those have totally disappeared, now we have him spending too much time off the ball on the perimeter.

    This team really needs some practice days at home. Something they didn't get all week. This started with the GS game and then we had zero practice time and it's snowballed without it.
    He wasn't a net positive when he led the team in scoring on February 3rd?

    You mean Turner gave us a nice boost against the Lakers and Bucks? Yes, I remember those games. He was touting Bird in his post-game comments, about how "Bird obviously made a great trade." But the Lakers and Bucks also gave us nice boosts against the Lakers and Bucks. Didn't Frank try ET at the point and it didn't work because he overdribbles with the ball in his hands? He's a poor fit on this team, plain and simple.

    This team needs a whole lot more than practice. They need time together to gel again. As of now, they've got 19 games before these games start mattering much more.

  27. #118
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,867

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We lost the last 3 games by a combined 59 points. We're not going to win those games with Danny Granger or Evan Turner off the bench.
    See this is the type of view I find most interesting.

    Because if we're using the "judge a book by its cover" approach, I agree with you 100%. Danny clearly wasn't making that big of a contribution on the court, and Evan has been good at times, awful at times. So really, a wash I suppose?

    But the fact of the matter is, following the analogy, there are hundreds of pages of "stuff" between the covers that tell the REAL story.

    The only point that I have been trying to make in this and other threads is that these types of moves have bigger consequences than just replacing player A's stats with player B's stats.

    Do I think that the addition of Andrew Bynum, Evan Turner and LaVoy Allen and the removal of Danny Granger and Orlando Johnson are *THE* reason we've lost 4 in a row and are playing poor ball the past several weeks? No, not at all.

    But I think we're fooling ourselves if we say there isn't a serious possibility that it's a big part of the reason.

    Again, I don't know how else to say it that hasn't already been said by myself or others. Professional athletes aren't robots. They aren't bereft of emotions and all the baggage that emotions entail. Just because they are very well paid, professional athletes in the public eye does not make them immune to any human response mechanisms that you or I or any of us may feel.

    Sure, Player B (Turner) may have better stats than Player A (Granger) - but this isn't a math equation. These are people with personalities who have to try to find that ever-important "Chemistry" and "Bond" that is so important in a team setting, sports or otherwise. Both on and off the court.

    Beyond even that, I made the comment in some thread (forget which) - It's not outside the realm of possibility that our team feels a bit slighted and disrespected by the front office for not trusting them to achieve their goals with the soldiers they had on the field. Again: Not. Robots. The team was trying to find ways to deal with their success. They had games where they struggled, and they had a great many games where they succeeded. With Danny specifically, you could tell he was doing all he could to play within the team and help them succeed. I don't doubt that the rest of the guys were 110% in his corner, for a great many reasons. We all saw how the team reacted last year when Danny FINALLY got a basket during one of his 5 games.

    But all of a sudden, all that the team had worked for thus far, all their efforts were suddenly not enough to be trusted to achieve our goal of a championship. We had to demote guys, or flat out remove people from the team that had been there through some REALLY bad times and smiled all through it.

    I am not saying that all this stuff above is the reason for our struggles. I have no clue what the reason is. But I think that to just outright dismiss those reasons is a mistake. I'm not calling you out here specifically Trader Joe, I have a lot of respect for your opinions and your basketball IQ. It's just a topic lately that's really been bothering me and I feel like people just laugh at my opinions on this (and others opinions) as though they're completely ludicrous.

    They're really not, you guys.

    Not. Robots.


  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TMJ31 For This Useful Post:


  29. #119
    Member Miller_time04's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Martinsville
    Age
    25
    Posts
    1,313
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    All I know is I'm very confused. This team has got to figure it out before it's too late. I think it's legit to be worried at this point as far as championship aspirations. Roy's play lately has been very troubling. Scola hasn't contributed anything in a very long time. I really think it's time to try out something new on the bench. That said...I still see us coming together and figuring it out and going on a streak to end the season.

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Miller_time04 For This Useful Post:


  31. #120
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    honolulu
    Age
    26
    Posts
    7,881
    Mood

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    From a strict win/loss perspective, this game doesn't fit with the four game losing streak in that the previous three losses were against top defensive teams. (All top 9 in DE, with Houston turnt up in 2014.) Dallas is the 22nd ranked defense in the league, getting by on their top 3 (!) offense. We should have scored way over 100 tonight. The defense hasn't been good, but the issue is still the offense, evidenced by the paltry output in Dallas.

  32. #121
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,867

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    From a strict win/loss perspective, this game doesn't fit with the four game losing streak in that the previous three losses were against top defensive teams. (All top 9 in DE, with Houston turnt up in 2014.) Dallas is the 22nd ranked defense in the league, getting by on their top 3 (!) offense. We should have scored way over 100 tonight. The defense hasn't been good, but the issue is still the offense, evidenced by the paltry output in Dallas.

    Yeah, the defense has let up, which is correctable I should hope. But the offense has been awful.

  33. #122

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    If I hear one more thing about Granger, I'm going to kill myself. He was flat out bad since coming back from injury. Turner ahs been good and bad, but I think most would rather him then DG. Granger is done. Sorry to say it is what it is.
    Dear P_George,
    You have received an infraction at Pacers Digest.

    Reason: Unacceptable Comment and/or Content

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to P_George For This Useful Post:


  35. #123
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,867

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If I hear one more thing about Granger, I'm going to kill myself. He was flat out bad since coming back from injury. Turner ahs been good and bad, but I think most would rather him then DG. Granger is done. Sorry to say it is what it is.
    And yet again, completely missing the point.

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to TMJ31 For This Useful Post:


  37. #124
    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    TURKEY
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,749

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And yet again, completely missing the point.
    if granger getting traded affected the players that much, they weren't mentally strong enough to win it all from the start. if that's the case i was overvaluing this team.

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to xtacy For This Useful Post:


  39. #125
    Member TOP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,872

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread Pacers Mavericks

    Quote Originally Posted by 31Since1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Fire Frank.
    Worst post of the year material.



    Quote Originally Posted by 31Since1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Meanwhile the guy we LOL'ed about being better than PG just had back to back 40 point games.
    Well, if anyone needed to be told you're tolling... now they know for sure you are.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •