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Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.
FWIW, they had won the prior 5 without Granger...including wins against Houston and OKC. With Granger, they edged the Atlanta Hawks by 1 point at home. He's not exactly giving them a bump.
Well, he was 0 for 1 in 3 minutes in his first game. Since then, he's shot close to 50%. Regardless, I think everybody including Danny knows he's not a superstar on that team; more of a 3-and-D. They roll with GriffinForce and CP3, and whatever they get from the SF spot is a bonus. I wouldn't be surprised to see him win a starting role over there, though, which is pretty good for a washed up, over-the-hill injured guy who can't dribble, pass, or defend.
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He may not have been playing well, but chemistry is a big deal. The slump started when the team signed Bynum.
I understand why Larry did the Turner trade, not only getting a decent player but also getting insurance for if the Pacers lose Lance. But you don't mess with the chemistry on a championship level team.
That being said..there is plenty of time to get it together. This team, since Vogel has been a coach, has gone through some slumps and then popped out of them..and always plays it's best in the playoffs. (Just like any well coached team.) I really wish people would stop being so paranoid. This is a great team with a legit shot at a championship. Understand there will still be some peaks and valleys and that they are human.
And at the end of the day, Larry ****ed up. He did a great job with this team. He's taken some chances he shouldn't have but had them work out. And he's made some mistakes. The signing of Bynum and the Granger trade happen to look like two mistakes right now. Maybe in the future they won't be...but right now it seems to be going that way.
Last edited by Sookie; 03-09-2014 at 09:13 PM.
There's also no way trading an extremely well-liked guy who took a below market deal while playing for one of the worst coaches in the NBA to stay for the '3 year plan' in a possible championship season to one of the worst teams in the NBA doesn't affect team chemistry. That type of 'business' hurts employee morale greatly no matter the industry.
And people suggesting that players should act like "professionals" and essentially suck it up, don't really understand business as well as they think they do, at least until businesses are run by computers instead of human beings.
I would be willing to bet that if you were personal friends with Danny, PG, or any of the other Pacers when the Bynum deal and the Danny trade went through and they confided their actual feelings about it with you, it would not even have a whiff of that canned response to it.
These people are public figures. They make obscene amounts of money. That does NOT mean they are somehow immune to insecurities, a sense of loyalty or a general feeling of honor and duty to a team and/or their teammates.
To say otherwise is just, I'm sorry, really out of touch with reality.
As someone who supported the Turner trade, I freely admit that losing Granger has probably upset some of the guys. But being upset about losing a beloved teammate is way different than getting so offended by a backup center being added that you start playing bad as a team. The Bynum theory doesn't make sense because they continued to win several weeks after he was signed and this current slump is now five weeks after the fact.
And the "it's a business" line is a shield the players have been using forever. I guess it shouldn't go both ways? When Hibbert, PG, and West were all signing their contracts that all but assured this was Danny and possibly Lance's last season with the team, did they get mad at themselves and go into a slump? Did they cry for the fact they were signing contracts that would make it impossible to bring back the crew next year?
It's a lull, stop freaking out.
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There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.
Prior to the granger trade: 41-13 .759 winning percentage
After the granger trade: 5-4 .556 winning percentage with the 5 wins coming against 4 of the worst teams in the league: Milwaukee twice, Boston, Lakers, and Utah...3 of the 4 losses have been by double digits...
Larry has earned the benefit of the doubt...but this team has very little resemblance to the one we watched for most of this season...
That's just a phenomenal point. Hibbert, Hill, PG, and West all made sure to cash in for themselves over the last couple of years. Hey that's fine, they earned it. But Roy was ready to bolt Granger and everyone else two years ago when Portland was coughing up the cash. Nothing wrong with that, but he didn't seem to be too heavy on nostalgia and loyalty when he saw that jack from the Blazers.
I get that these guys are human and have emotions. But they also get paid an obscene amount of money to play a child's game and live a charmed life. It's just hard for me to feel too much sympathy for them. One of the few pitfalls of playing professional sports is that you will either get traded yourself or at least see a ton of friends leave throughout your career. Everyone understands this going in. Edgerrin James was one of the most beloved Colts ever, but when we let go of him guys got over it quickly and won the Super Bowl the next season. I understand that they had the whole off-season to get over it as opposed to this Granger thing being in the middle of the season, but still.
While I'm sure that the Granger thing has upset some of the guys, I still think that the issues right now are deeper than that. We played an entire season without Granger last year and made it to Game 7 of the ECF's. I get that he was still on the team, in the locker room, and able to talk to guys on the bench, but the point remains that we successfully executed without him on the basketball court.
Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-10-2014 at 05:59 AM.
Clips are still undefeated, with Danny playing a pretty important role last night.
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He did mean a good deal, but I think with PG being where he is now and I believe Turner will be able to be a key off the bench, I think it was the right move letting Danny go. I hope he does well in LA. He deserves it
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Turner has like a -7 net efficiency rating while Granger has like a +8 just going off of memory. Granger is the better defender/player and is a veteran who was looked up to by the team. Usually teams win championships with veterans like Granger off the bench, not underpeforming lottery picks still on their rookie deal. Turner is not very good Lance insurance IMO. If we want to remain a contender without Lance, we better pull a fringe All Star out of nowhere, because Turner is not even close to that guy.
I personally don't think Turner was ever a back up option anyways. Our front office will be forced to keep Lance, and they know that. At least I think they should. And I think that keeping him is a must for us to remain competitive. We weren't true contenders until he came along. He is the piece that put us in the same league as Miami IMO. I mean you can't discredit West, PG, Hibbert, Hill, but Lance is like that missing piece that brings it all together.
That said I hope Turner has the best run of his career,and helps us win a championship even if he is just a one year rental. Maybe I'm wrong and he helps us more than Granger ever could this year. I just think it was a lateral move at best. So maybe we do win it all, but I believed we could with Granger and would rather he get the ring instead of Turner.
I really think Danny would have been better Lance insurance then Turner is but it's water under the bridge now. As hard as this had to be for Danny I think he'll be glad he was traded someday. Danny would have never been used to his potential this year while playing on the bench for us. He should be able to have a bigger impact playing for the Clippers and most likely will net a better contract then he would have here. Turner on the other hand won't be getting many calls for anything more then and MLE offer after getting his shot opportunites cut in half here.