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Thread: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

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    Default Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Our team is obviously in a slump; you have to be living under a rock to not see that. We could point to various issues that could be the cause: PG's back, Vogel's coaching, etc. One possibility that does deserve discussion is the Granger trade. Did he mean that much to this team? Remember, he didn't play nearly at all last year, and he came off the bench for a few weeks this year. Was he such a great mentor to these young guys that once he was shipped out, we went into panic mode?

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    No, but I'd like to take this opportunity to say for as much as Granger as been **** on (and will be **** on in this thread), he's about 10x the defender that Evan Turner is--even with his ****** knees. Turner is a travesty on D.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    LOL

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    No no no. This team has been playing poorly well before Granger got traded.
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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    No, but I'd like to take this opportunity to say for as much as Granger as been **** on (and will be **** on in this thread), he's about 10x the defender that Evan Turner is--even with his ****** knees. Turner is a travesty on D.
    Turner is a good defender. Just not off screens because he doesn't have super speed. It's PG's back. We were rolling along until he injured his back. If our star player can't be as aggressive as he always is due to injury, then we're toast.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Our owners and GM saw $ instead of loyalty and heart. It's that simple. You don't make basketball decisions based on your wallet, you make it based on what happens on the hardwood and in the locker room.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    This is on neither granger nor turner. It's a slump and either they'll get over it or they won't.

    The season isn't over by any means. **** happens. Life goes on. Play Miami even the rest of the way and beat them twice and you've accomplished the season goal.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-07-2014 at 11:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolwuttermelons View Post
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    Our owners and GM saw $ instead of loyalty and heart. It's that simple. You don't make basketball decisions based on your wallet, you make it based on what happens on the hardwood and in the locker room.
    Saying it again. There is no loyalty where championships are concerned. You're either professional enough to get over it and hungry enough to win the ultimate prize in your profession, or you aren't.

    This isn't a clubhouse of pre-teens, and basketball isn't a morality play.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    The Pacers Defense has fallen to pieces since the trade. That's all I'll concede. It's not just the bench. The starters defense has been subpar and their lack of offensive cohesion are the bigger reason we're seeing the wheels fall off the Pacers wagon.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Turner's D is bad but Lance has sucked just about as bad for the past 2 months and PG has gone from elite to average. Everyone dogs on Hibbert but he's still been our best defensive player on a consistent basis. Our perimeter D is killing us.
    Overall Danny was playing better defense then Turner or Lance. I was never in favor of the trade but I still want to give Turner a few more games of observation, it's not his fault he was traded any more then it was Danny's. If the coach doesn't play to a players strengths then it limits what they can do to help the team. I think Granger could have gave us more if the were used right and I think Turner could to.
    This is still a young impressionable team and a leader like Danny very well could have meant that much to the team

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    It may be a slump, but I think the trades have been a distraction and didn't sit well with some of the players. I'm not a big Granger fan, but I think pushing him out was a mistake from a chemistry standpoint. Also, bringing in Bynum was a mistake IMO. A bigger mistake is keeping him.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Turner is a good defender. Just not off screens because he doesn't have super speed. It's PG's back. We were rolling along until he injured his back. If our star player can't be as aggressive as he always is due to injury, then we're toast.
    Turner is not a good defender. Nothing supports that argument.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Turner is not a good defender. Nothing supports that argument.
    He's been bad, but the defense is often bad before he ever sees the floor.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Turner's D is bad but Lance has sucked just about as bad for the past 2 months and PG has gone from elite to average. Everyone dogs on Hibbert but he's still been our best defensive player on a consistent basis. Our perimeter D is killing us.
    Overall Danny was playing better defense then Turner or Lance. I was never in favor of the trade but I still want to give Turner a few more games of observation, it's not his fault he was traded any more then it was Danny's. If the coach doesn't play to a players strengths then it limits what they can do to help the team. I think Granger could have gave us more if the were used right and I think Turner could to.
    This is still a young impressionable team and a leader like Danny very well could have meant that much to the team
    I wouldn't go that far. Granger was an old figure head on this team and everyone expected him to be on the way out. The issue isn't that Granger is unavailable. It's that the team showed no loyalty to a guy who gave his heart and soul to the team through the dark years. They were going to send him to the Sixers. Guys pay attention to that stuff and it has apparently spoiled the locker room. That and Bynum coming in. It's really a mess.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    He's been bad, but the defense is often bad before he ever sees the floor.
    I'm not blaming the entire defense being bad because of him. Plenty of ****** defense being played all around. But Turner is an atrocious defender.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not blaming the entire defense being bad because of him. Plenty of ****** defense being played all around. But Turner is an atrocious defender.
    This has been pretty depressing. I think Turner is a good enough athlete to be a very solid defender. His bball IQ though is slightly higer than Gerald Green, which is why he may never live up to his ability on the defensive end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    This has been pretty depressing. I think Turner is a good enough athlete to be a very solid defender. His bball IQ though is slightly higer than Gerald Green, which is why he may never live up to his ability on the defensive end.
    Oh my god you're right. I knew he reminded me of some recent Pacer on D. Getting lost when his man doesn't have the ball--that was a GGreen staple.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    This has been pretty depressing. I think Turner is a good enough athlete to be a very solid defender. His bball IQ though is slightly higer than Gerald Green, which is why he may never live up to his ability on the defensive end.
    So basically Turner is Gerald Green minus the athleticism. And the 3-point shot. Awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    So basically Turner is Gerald Green minus the athleticism. And the 3-point shot. Awesome.
    Not necessarily. I think Turner is much more creative on the offensive end and does a good job getting his own shot. I also think he is a very good midrange jumpshooter. With that being said I wouldn't expect him to catch on with help side defensive rotations or read much on the court.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Oh my god you're right. I knew he reminded me of some recent Pacer on D. Getting lost when his man doesn't have the ball--that was a GGreen staple.

    Scary, huh? Granger couldn't stay in front of his shadow, but understood the concepts and could help. Turner needs to get 15 points per game on good shooting with few turnovers to offset his defensive lapses. Yes, some of it may be him not being used to a particular scheme, but some of these rotations are just inexcusable for a veteran guy who has played a lot of basketball to miss.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Granger certainly meant a lot to the team. Anyone that says otherwise is either not a Pacers fan (Kstat, for example, is not a Pacers fan and he can freely ignore what a player means to a team from a chemistry standpoint) or has let his dislike for Granger blind him.

    That said, I don't think that the trade has anything to do with how we have played in the last 2 games. Well, at least that's what I hope so.
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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Watson hasn't played the past two games. He is certainly not the reason, but not having him also doesn't help.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Granger certainly meant a lot to the team. Anyone that says otherwise is either not a Pacers fan (Kstat, for example, is not a Pacers fan and he can freely ignore what a player means to a team from a chemistry standpoint) or has let his dislike for Granger blind him.

    That said, I don't think that the trade has anything to do with how we have played in the last 2 games. Well, at least that's what I hope so.
    Agreed. I think Granger was a good dude and guys liked him, but he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire. I like Danny, and I know some are sensitive when his name is mentioned, but if losing him cost us a championship I don't think we were going to win one anyways.

    Like I said, I appreciate Danny, but lets be real.

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    Default Re: Did Granger Really Mean That Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Agreed. I think Granger was a good dude and guys liked him, but he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire. I like Danny, and I know some are sensitive when his name is mentioned, but if losing him cost us a championship I don't think we were going to win one anyways.

    Like I said, I appreciate Danny, but lets be real.
    Young teams rarely win championships.

    Don't underestimate a veteran presence. Especially one who is strong enough, and smart enough to give Paul a break from guarding Lebron. As well as he is a constant 3 point threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Young teams rarely win championships.

    Don't underestimate a veteran presence. Especially one who is strong enough, and smart enough to give Paul a break from guarding Lebron. As well as he is a constant 3 point threat.
    Are we a young team?!

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