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Thread: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Mike Dunleavy has had a solid year with Chicago too.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Mike Dunleavy has had a solid year with Chicago too.
    He was solid in Milwaukee as well but I'm pretty sure that no one wants him back.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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  5. #53

    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I'm in for wanting Vogel to switch up the offense and gear it more like San Antonio's.
    If he does that, the Pacers are going to have to get rid of Lance and Evan and resign Danny. More shooters and less mid-range guys on the wings.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    If he does that, the Pacers are going to have to get rid of Lance and Evan and resign Danny. More shooters and less mid-range guys on the wings.
    Not really. Lance has speed, he likes to push the ball. We'd just have to surround him with shooters. Copeland, Butler, Solo. I think Solo if they work in the offseason, can be a lot like Danny Green with the Spurs. Just be an assassin off the bench. They just need to get him to practice his 3 point shot from the usual spots. Those spots where they shoot in the NBA All-Star weekend 3-point shootout.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I'm in for wanting Vogel to switch up the offense and gear it more like San Antonio's.
    That's not a simple switch-up, that's years of working together as a unit.
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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I'm in for wanting Vogel to switch up the offense and gear it more like San Antonio's.
    Did we trade for Tony Parker? None of our guards can penetrate and finish like he does.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    Did we trade for Tony Parker? None of our guards can penetrate and finish like he does.
    Not many can, doesn't mean he can't learn from their offense. There is more to it than just Parker penetrating.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    He was solid in Milwaukee as well but I'm pretty sure that no one wants him back.
    I suspect that Dunleavy would be an awesome fit with our second unit now. He definitely has toughness at times, and as a very willing passer who can also score he knows how to make an offense efficient as long as the other players are willing to move without the ball. Chicago definitely improved when they got Dunleavy.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    Green plays for a team that doesn't care who scores and doesn't care about defense as for Plumlee too. Augustin was never bad, he just didn't fit with us. McRoberts plays for Charlotte, enough said
    Charlotte is a playoff team who beat us by 30 the last time we played. Maybe it's time to acknowledge they aren't the same team that won 7 games a couple of years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Bonnell, NBA beat writer, Charlotte Observer
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    http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_th...ts-around.html

    March 13, 2014

    A look ahead: The Bobcats should start figuring out how to keep Josh McRoberts around

    Roughly this time each NBA season – two-thirds of the way through – I remind myself to look at the Charlotte Bobcats’ player salaries to see if anyone is vastly under- or overpaid.

    Ben Gordon is gone, so that’s more a “How much did you pay for a future first-round pick?” issue. The more interesting situation going forward is starting power forward Josh McRoberts.

    Boy, is he underpaid.

    McRoberts makes slightly more than $2.6 million this season. That makes him the eighth-highest paid player on this team. He is the third-best player on this team behind Al Jefferson and Kemba Walker. Some perspective:

    It’s not rookie Cody Zeller’s fault he makes $3.8 million. That’s the system, and if the Bobcats drafted Zeller fourth overall, he should make that much. But if you’ve watched the last 60-some games, two things would strike you about McRoberts and his backup, Zeller.

    One, McRoberts is a lot better than Zeller. Two, that isn’t going to change at the start of training camp in October or anytime in the foreseeable future.

    Again, not Zeller’s fault. He has potential for the same reason the Bobcats like McRoberts in this time in basketball when a power forward’s skill set should include the ability to make 3s, pass and dribble.

    The Bobcats signed McRoberts to a two-season contract. This and next season is guaranteed, but McRoberts can opt-out after this season and hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent.

    This was a very cost-effective move by the Bobcats. But even before the team played its first regular-season game, owner Michael Jordan acknowledged to me the prospect of McRoberts opting out was worrisome.

    They want him back. As Jordan put it so well, McRoberts is the Bobcats’ “connect-the-dots” guy because of his sophisticated passing.

    I’ve no idea how this will work out in July. Here’s how it should work out:

    The Bobcats should make a fair, but preemptive, offer that keeps McRoberts around. I think Josh gets it he’s valued here, and he should want to keep playing for Steve Clifford.

    After so many misadventures at upgrading the talent – Adam Morrison, Gana Diop, Tyrus Thomas – shouldn’t you retain somebody who’s been about as cost-effective as any player in franchise history?
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    I suspect that Dunleavy would be an awesome fit with our second unit now. He definitely has toughness at times, and as a very willing passer who can also score he knows how to make an offense efficient as long as the other players are willing to move without the ball. Chicago definitely improved when they got Dunleavy.
    Doesn't make him any less of a dick though

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    9/5/4 on 44% shooting. If McBob is truly the Bobcats' third best player, then that would explain why they're on pace to win just 39 games in the lowly East.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Mike Dunleavy has had a solid year with Chicago too.
    That doesn't fit the criteria of this thread because despite how he's playing this year, Dunleavy's best years were in a Pacers uniform.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance George View Post
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    9/5/4 on 44% shooting. If McBob is truly the Bobcats' third best player, then that would explain why they're on pace to win just 39 games in the lowly East.
    I think that is probably has more to do with the two players who are considered better than him are Kimba Walker and Al Jefferson.

    He has a usage rating of 13.4 (for comparison his lowest usage rate for us was 14.7), meaning they rarely actually use him. When they do it is mostly as a facilitator it seems, which he excels at with a 4:1 assist to turnover ratio. He takes almost 50% of his shots from 3, so 44% isn't a bad FG%.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Doesn't make him any less of a dick though
    lol.

    don't hold back. let it out.

    when he and Hans are in the game at the same time it is a veritable dick fest. Throw Anderson from Miami and Kobe in the mix and it would be a big bag of Richards.

    Maybe we could come up with a roster of the biggest dozen in the NBA. Guys who when they check in, you say to your buddy, "that guy is such a dick".

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Charlotte is a playoff team who beat us by 30 the last time we played. Maybe it's time to acknowledge they aren't the same team that won 7 games a couple of years ago.
    Charlotte beat us on the 2nd night of a b2b with our star player playing with a back injury, lighting problems on one side of the court (your opinion about how bad those problems were), and coming off a tough buzzer-beater loss vs. GSW at home. Not to mention it was our 4th game in 5 nights. If we met them in the playoffs it would be a totally different story.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Charlotte beat us on the 2nd night of a b2b with our star player playing with a back injury, lighting problems on one side of the court (your opinion about how bad those problems were), and coming off a tough buzzer-beater loss vs. GSW at home. Not to mention it was our 4th game in 5 nights. If we met them in the playoffs it would be a totally different story.
    Excuses, excuses. Done with any kind of excuse concerning this Pacer team. Give Charlotte some credit for once.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Excuses, excuses. Done with any kind of excuse concerning this Pacer team. Give Charlotte some credit for once.
    I don't think he was taking anything away from Charlotte, just pointing out that Indiana is a superior team despite the lopsided result last game.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    It's kinda great that our talent scouting is so good that we have essentially acquired 25-30 quality rotation guys over the past few years. That's a really, really good front office. Very few misses and a lot of home runs.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    It's kinda great that our talent scouting is so good that we have essentially acquired 25-30 quality rotation guys over the past few years. That's a really, really good front office. Very few misses and a lot of home runs.
    Thats one way to look at it. The fact these guys didn't produce in Indiana makes you wonder about some things as well.

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    He was solid in Milwaukee as well but I'm pretty sure that no one wants him back.
    I wanted Dun to stay if the price was right. I thought he was solid while he was here just over-priced. Just think if we had Dun as PG's backup last year instead of Sam Young

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    As bad as our former players played for us and as good as they are now playing for other teams...there are a grand total of 0 of them that play on a team with a record superior to the Pacers this season.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    As bad as our former players played for us and as good as they are now playing for other teams...there are a grand total of 0 of them that play on a team with a record superior to the Pacers this season.
    Season's not over yet

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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Season's not over yet
    Of course the Clippers could very well pass us, but I think our system may not be as bad as some think. And the Clippers probably have the two most successful former Pacers on their squad anyway. It's especially disheartening for Green and Augustin, but with the exception of David West, we don't really have any players that are just phenomenal all around offensive basketball players. Scola and George are close this year, but of course last year Scola was Hansbrough and George wasn't as much of a featured scorer last year.

    I'm sure Vogel's system has plenty room for improvement, but I don't think the ceiling for this team is very high offensively anyway.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    All of us? Not really. The only people that look like idiots (to borrow your title, I don't believe that anyone is an idiot) are the ones that ridiculed those players and wanted to run them out of town.

    The ones who defended those players and attributed their below par performance in Indiana to some real issues (like a bad fit for our offense in Green's case, a bad fit for our defense in DJ's case and lack of playing time in Plumlee's case) look really good now
    This list of guys playing well is classic anecdotal "stats are lies" logic first of all. No one thinks of the guys doing nothing because of exactly that fact, they are doing nothing and are therefore off the radar.


    I was quite vocal and basically alone (maybe 1 other) as a Gerald Green defender at the summer PD party. He shot the 3 atrociously for 5 weeks, that was his only flaw as a BENCH player. His 3P% the rest of the year was an acceptable 35% when you add in his vertical attack on offense and rebounding. He seemed injured when the playoffs hit which reduced his hops and made him less effective. Even still is year in PHX is his best NBA season, and he qualifies for this thread because the Pacers just let him go (traded him).


    Plumlee had zero PT so who knows. And for all his greatness what I see with the Suns is him feeding off other guys. He's not having the same "do something to stop me" impact that Green is.


    Dunleavy? What's he done any different than he did here? His numbers are dead nuts on with his career, and perhaps slightly down in Chicago. On top of that he seems to pick fights and take cheap shots at guys every other week while still playing his terrible defense.


    Collison has his Assists p36 lower than in Indy and his 3P% is on par with his time here. Only his 2P% is really up. His steals in Indy were also way below his norm. Of course there is one major difference with his "career norms" and Indy output - Indy started him in 135 of 139 GP (regular season) or 97%. In Dallas he started 58% (47 of 81) and in LAC he started 39% (26 of 67), meaning he's put in A LOT more time against bench players over the course of the last 2 seasons, and this was true for his time in NO as well. What Indy proved is DC is better suited to come off the bench, and despite his protests he's had to do that everywhere BUT in Indy (ironic that he complained about it while here).


    DJ got run out of Toronto even more than Indy, and right while they were in a serious playoff hunt. And losing him didn't hurt them one bit. Shooting a terrible FG% at high volume isn't exactly making people look like idiots BTW. He was shooting 29% in Toronto, FG, not 3P%. The main thing in Chicago that's helped is his 3P%. Keep in mind his 3P% in Indy was BETTER than it had been the prior 2 seasons in Charlotte. Chicago has found a way to get him 3P looks he likes or he's gotten hot way above his career average. The Toronto thing should keep him off this list, but I'll let him be player #2 who looks better after leaving Indy just on his Bulls output.


    Granger just went 0-4 to follow his big breakout game. I love Danny and could see that he clearly wasn't the same. He had already fit in with this group and played far better than what we saw this year. Something about his game did not make it past his injury/recovery. He might not be done but I've given up hope that we'll see the DG we love ever again. Danny needs A LOT of 15 point games and a 3P% running 37%+ to prove Indy gave up too soon. Let's check back after game 82 this year.


    I love Sam Young's defense and hustle, but which NBA team is he playing for this season?


    I like AJ Price and loved him as a 2nd round pick simply because any 2nd round pick that can stick on an NBA floor is a winning pick. Lance is a massive exception/win. So it's nice to see Price hanging in the league, but he's not doing more elsewhere.


    Tyler and McRoberts haven't done any more elsewhere. Tyler is taking 3 less shots per 36 which has his FG% up to 47, still not great for a PF/OReb type but much less of a black hole. His rebounds per 36 are over 10 for the first time ever but his FT% is at a career low sub 70% which isn't so great for a guy who specializes in getting to the line. Josh is doing okay as a starter for the playoff bound Bobcats, but his numbers are nothing special (and you know I like Josh). He's become a 3pt and passing specialist and this has seen his rebounding drop way off while is 3P makes and assists are way up. But it's a wash in total output.


    Rush looked good till he got hurt, but then he looked good here too. People just wanted him to take 14 FGA per game and that's not who he is. But otherwise he was a solid bench defensive SG who could hit the spot up 3. I think they should have kept him for the backup SG role, but post-injury the point is moot.


    Barbosa didn't do anything more than he did in Indy. DJones? Troy? Admundson (barely hanging in NBA in NOP)?


    Ayers is just as fun as always but he's not rolling along as anything more than a bench speciality guy.


    Who doesn't love Pulp, but OJ has run off a 3-17 FG in Sacto. Obviously he's not fitting in with their system coming in on the fly like that.



    So what's this list of players making us look foolish? I see all those guys and raise them 2 games of Bynum vs the 2 prior seasons of Bynum output.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-16-2014 at 08:09 PM.

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  36. #75
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    Default Re: Ex-Pacers Making Us All Look Like Idiots

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance George View Post
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    9/5/4 on 44% shooting. If McBob is truly the Bobcats' third best player, then that would explain why they're on pace to win just 39 games in the lowly East.
    44% shooting is weighed down by the increased 3PA. His eFG% (adjusted for the bonus point of a 3PM) is .524. His assists p36 are at 5.0 this season. Of the Pacers regulars there are TWO guys with a better eFG% - Lance at .541 and Hill at .532. ONLY LANCE can match McBob's assists p36 at 5.0 himself. So what I'm saying is Josh is putting up Lance numbers for Charlotte. It's coming from the PF spot which makes it odd and perhaps not a good fit everywhere, but it's smart change for him considering how good his handles are.

    Lance is outrebounding Josh, though we also know some of Lance's boards are "stolen" or system based (West or Roy block out to let guard get ball clean). But Josh is also playing more perimeter so that's a negative by-product. Josh has MORE steals p36 than Lance, obviously more blocks (.7 to .1) but also less than HALF THE TURNOVERS. Josh is getting the same amount of assists for only 1.2 TOs vs 2.7. Josh is shooting the three BETTER THAN LANCE (36% to 34%).

    Lance is shooting the 2 better and is taking more 2PA vs 3PA than Josh (Lance 8 to 3, Josh 4 to 4). Neither draw many FTAs but Josh is shooting FT a fraction better (ie, equally non-important).


    Josh is 26, Lance is 23. Lance is playing 35 mpg, Josh is playing 30 mpg.



    Frankly I'm glad Josh was thrown under the bus because I was undervaluing his impact this year, those are some darn good, if non-traditional numbers.

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