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Thread: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ytics/6133967/Adam Silver's NBA out to prove it has no referee issue

    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-07-2014 at 08:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Love this. Just wanted to add another thanks.

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    Pacers Fan For Life J7F's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Buck's anticonspiracy war is coming to a close... Congrats my friend!
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    I believe that now the games are called fair, but I have no doubt in my mind that the league rigged some individual playoff games over the years. I am not just talking Pacers/Knicks although some of those were pretty bad or even Pacers/Bulls where Pippen was allowed to mug Mark Jackson for two games with no fouls being called and ticky tack calls being made on the Pacers. The Kings, Heat Mavs and Blazers all had playoff games where they were screwed by the reffs.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    "Adam Silver out to fix the NBA referee issue" would have been a much more apt headline for them.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    "Adam Silver out to fix the NBA referee issue" would have been a much more apt headline for them.
    No.

    "Silver is out to fix the perceived referee issue"

    That is what it should have said. Because IMO it was all perception and not a real issue. But lets move on and not go back. If Silver can clear up the perception that there is a problem, then I'll give him credit

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Good luck, Adam. I hope you can pull it off.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No.

    "Silver is out to fix the perceived referee issue"

    That is what it should have said. Because IMO it was all perception and not a real issue. But lets move on and not go back. If Silver can clear up the perception that there is a problem, then I'll give him credit
    There is a perception of a problem because the refs are extremely inconsistent.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No.

    "Silver is out to fix the perceived referee issue"

    That is what it should have said. Because IMO it was all perception and not a real issue. But lets move on and not go back. If Silver can clear up the perception that there is a problem, then I'll give him credit
    The perception is the cause and extent of the issue, not the issue itself. It's a reality that NBA officiating is bad.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The perception is the cause and extent of the issue, not the issue itself. It's a reality that NBA officiating is bad.
    Compared to college or olympic basketball they're the best there is IMHO

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No.

    "Silver is out to fix the perceived referee issue"

    That is what it should have said. Because IMO it was all perception and not a real issue. But lets move on and not go back. If Silver can clear up the perception that there is a problem, then I'll give him credit
    You know, I almost edited my post, and threw that exact word in there. (perceived) But then I got busy buying Seinfeld stand up tickets, and forgot.

    I'm interested to see this percentage of right/wrong calls, before declaring there isn't any real issue. Obviously Silver thinks it's a big enough issue to change the way the NBA handles the situation, which I can fully respect. He keeps this type of attitude up, instead of treating any questions about their credibility like a personal insult, and he'll be a better commish than Stern by the end of 2010's.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    JMO, which is completely uninformed and total eyeball test: calls almost always even out. There are bad calls here & there, but there have been maybe 2 or 3 games in Pacers' entire season where I felt the officiating was not quite fair (one way or the other).

    I think teams are officiated evenly, by in large. But I don't think players are. I maintain Lance Stephenson, for instance, is officiated differently than Stephen Curry. I think officials have their clear impressions of certain players and how they want to officiate them. But in the larger sense, I think almost every game is decided on the court by players, not officials.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    Compared to college or olympic basketball they're the best there is IMHO
    It's like picking between getting poked in the eyeballs, kicked in the nuts, or hit over the back by a 2x4. Which one is best? I don't know, but I don't care to sit through any of them.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No.

    "Silver is out to fix the perceived referee issue"

    That is what it should have said. Because IMO it was all perception and not a real issue. But lets move on and not go back. If Silver can clear up the perception that there is a problem, then I'll give him credit
    Agreed. The only time refs are mentioned is when things are bad. NBA refs overall are very, very good at what they do. Do they have bad nights? Of course. But those are the exception, not the norm.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    I believe that now the games are called fair, but I have no doubt in my mind that the league rigged some individual playoff games over the years. I am not just talking Pacers/Knicks although some of those were pretty bad or even Pacers/Bulls where Pippen was allowed to mug Mark Jackson for two games with no fouls being called and ticky tack calls being made on the Pacers. The Kings, Heat Mavs and Blazers all had playoff games where they were screwed by the reffs.
    The one series that I'll never see as clean was that 2002 Kings/Lakers series. People like to talk about how the Kings could have still won based on better play, which is of course true, but speaking only to the officials... something really stunk there.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    Compared to college or olympic basketball they're the best there is IMHO
    True. And compared to decapitation, having my hand hacked off isn't so bad, either.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Personally I would take consistently bad, over inconsistently good. Cause if they are consistent in how they ref you can at least prepare according, and know what to expect even if it is bad.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    No one will ever convince me that some games/series were not rigged or at least overwhelmingly slanted to one team or another. ESPN had a top 10 list a few years ago of the worst officiated NBA series, I saw every one of those series and I don't see how anyone could have watched them and say the officiating was fair or even. (2or3 Pacer series where listed)

    The officiating has gotten MUCH better since the Donaghy scandal. It had to or the league would have crash and burned. It's still a league which a foul is a foul is a foul depending on WHO it is. Hopefully Silver is going to make it even better.

    I hated Stern's smirk ever time he was asked about officiating. Stern seemed to care only about how to make more profit. Silver seems concerned about league integrity first.
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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You know, I almost edited my post, and threw that exact word in there. (perceived) But then I got busy buying Seinfeld stand up tickets, and forgot.

    I'm interested to see this percentage of right/wrong calls, before declaring there isn't any real issue. Obviously Silver thinks it's a big enough issue to change the way the NBA handles the situation, which I can fully respect. He keeps this type of attitude up, instead of treating any questions about their credibility like a personal insult, and he'll be a better commish than Stern by the end of June, 2014.
    A very conservative adjustment, LOL.

    I truly believe that the officiating in the NBA is at best biased toward favoring superstars when they are making their signature offensive or defensive moves (Reggie's leg kick to draw contact, Roy's verticality when at times he really isn't vertical, etc. I used these examples to avoid being a homer.) or a potential highlight producing play. This would be a marketing tactic targeting casual fans looking for entertainment as opposed to true fans of basketball as a sport. The same could be said of the perceived bias favoring large market teams with the largest fanbases. People love to follow winners, and the league is quite aware of that I am sure. Larger markets with winning teams means more money for the league as a whole due to a larger number of happier fans.

    I remember a game at Conseco vs the Celtics several years ago that I went to that I decided beforehand to track the net result of calls missed that favored the Pacers vs those that favored the Celtics. The end result? The Celtics came out on top by 15 calls! I estimated that those calls probably swung the score by about 20 - 25 points, and IIRC the Celtics won by less than 10. Admittedly, my personal confirmation bias based on a belief that the officials would strongly favor the Celtics which motivated me to track this probably skewed the results, but I still believe that game was decided by the officials.

    I fervently hope that the league decides to show fans the same replays that the officials use to review calls both on TV and at the games. Then fans would at least be able to make an informed decision about the accuracy of a given call being reviewed, and possibly be able to have a more realistic opinion of the competency / integrity of a given crew because we would all know what they are being permitted to look at. It would also be instructive to mic the officials so that an explanation of why a decision is made can be broadcast to the fans, kind of like the NFL does. Would it take some time each game to do so? Obviously. However, I think fans would overall have a better experience due to an enhanced perception of the quality of the officiating of the league as a whole, and perhaps the increased scrutiny available to fans would cause officials to up their games as officials.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    The fact that Silver has already made the referee reviews available to the teams compared to the select chosen few of the previous regime is a huge step forward. I would not surprised if those reports are available to the general public by the end of the decade.
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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    This is great news. Now if Silver can just fix the laughable big market bias at the expense of quality that came to define the Stern era, then he will be well on his way to being a good commissioner. I posted in the random thoughts thread how ABC ratings are down. I guess people are tired of the garbage Knicks being shoved down their throats. It was poetic justice that the last Sunday ABC game of the Stern era was the putrid Knicks vs. the putrid Lakers. That in a nutshell defines the big market bias at the expense of quality that has existed for so many years. I hope that the ABC ratings continue to suffer this season. Serves them right for not caring about quality.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    It's still a league which a foul is a foul is a foul depending on WHO it is.
    And when it happens. You are supposed to ref the last second of the game the same way you ref the first second of the game.

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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    The real solution to this is to mandate that all players where sensor-suits on the court. Place 12' sensor-reading walls on all sides of the court that determine true fouls, in real time, using the output readings from the sensor suits, via a complex, floating-point algorithm engine that calculates physics, angles, and trajectories of all moving parts on the court with tolerances and thresholds to allow for just the right amount of natural physicality and bumping without registering the action as a true foul. It will also account for any steps taken beyond the allowed limit for a travel, to accurately locate travel scenarios. It will use physics to determine the energy and power of the impact to determine if a foul is a normal foul, a flagrant 1, and a flagrant 2. It will also listen for certain key words the players utter on the court, and upon detection will call them for a technical. It will monitor the lane to ensure no one enters it before the free-throw shooter has truly released his shot. It will monitor the shooters foot to make sure he was, indeed, behind the 3-point line. It will also learn over time, so as to take the fault rate from an initial 0.0000000001% percent to an eventual even 0%.

    Then... and only then..... will people shut the hell up.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-07-2014 at 01:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    NBA officials are the best basketball officials in the world, there is no doubt about that. Has the NBA fixed games? I don't know. I want to say no. But that Lakers/Kings series.... thats the one thing that always comes to mind. It was just so bad.

    Also everyone and their mother knows about superstar calls. They absolutely exist. Players, coaches, announcers, they all talk about it. What is going to be done about that?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver out to prove NBA has no referee issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    True. And compared to decapitation, having my hand hacked off isn't so bad, either.
    I think before I would suggest such a thing I would have to watch the whole game from start to finish, non-edited. The edited version I have seen on the internet doesn't prove anything to me. Any game you can put together all the plays that went against 1 team and make it look bad.

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