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Thread: One positive from last nights loss....

  1. #1

    Question One positive from last nights loss....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFwKjy-1hE


    ^This video is highlights of Evan Turner last night. Features Copeland near the end. For two guys who just met as teammates last week? They were magic out there together. They complement each other nicely, and I liked how both used some nice moves from the perimeter to pitch out to the other for a shot. ET to Cope for 3, and Cope to ET for 3.

    Frank has to see that this is lightning in a bottle here these two off the bench. Evan is so good at getting into the paint that, the 3 point shot for Copeland will ALWAYS be there if he's on the floor. Ball movement was good as well. Now the question is, who off the bench should join Cope and Evan? And should Lance continue to play 42 mins a game? Or should 12 of Lance's usual minutes be set aside for a ten man rotation featuring Rasual along with Cope, Evan, Ian, and CJ?

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    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    THis is what I have been clamoring for. Vogel has no clue. You got 2 guys on the bench now that need the ball in their hands to be effective. Vogel hasnt' got a clue on how to use these guys right. Need to pair Turner with both Hill and Copeland so that he has effective shooters to kick it out to.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    THis is what I have been clamoring for. Vogel has no clue. You got 2 guys on the bench now that need the ball in their hands to be effective. Vogel hasnt' got a clue on how to use these guys right. Need to pair Turner with both Hill and Copeland so that he has effective shooters to kick it out to.

    Not sure about Hill. Unless it's a sub situation. But I am talking strictly about the 2nd unit. Turner and Copeland are the foundation. Now Vogel just needs to sit Lance for 12 extra minutes. He doesn't look as fired up as usual. That's a sign, need to decrease his minutes.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    I feel like Turner should actually take a few minutes each from Paul, George, and Lance. That way all of them would be fresher when they are in the game as well as having less mileage come playoff time. He is slower and doesn't defend as well (yet), but seems to have a good basketball IQ and is meshing pretty well considering the very short time he has been here.

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    Member PR07's Avatar
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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Copeland needs to be in the rotation. He's played well when given the opportunity. I'd like to see us try him out at the backup 3. This bench could use some more punch.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    I feel like Turner should actually take a few minutes each from Paul, George, and Lance. That way all of them would be fresher when they are in the game as well as having less mileage come playoff time. He is slower and doesn't defend as well (yet), but seems to have a good basketball IQ and is meshing pretty well considering the very short time he has been here.


    He doesn't get around screens well. He's good man2man. But he doesn't get around screens as quickly. Some players just have that as their weak link.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Copeland needs to be in the rotation. He's played well when given the opportunity. I'd like to see us try him out at the backup 3. This bench could use some more punch.
    I don't think he's quick enough to guard 3's. At backup four would work best.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    NO clue is pretty harsh. Frank is a good coach and knows what wins in the NBA. It is a simple formula. Play your better players as much as you can, but not too much so that they are no longer your better players. Frank has played his starters into the ground trying to win games. Too much emphasis on the short term goals, winning this game, and not enough on the long term goals, playing well when the playoffs start.

    Frank plays a 9 man rotation. That is long enough to give everyone enough rest, if you play the reserves enough. Play Roy, Paul, Lance, David, Hill and Evan about 30 mpg. Play CJ, Luis and Ian about 20 mpg. The full time rotation players can play 30 min without getting too tired. But to do this, you have to let the reserves play through their mistakes. Not pull them when they get in trouble. Frank has been over relying on his starters to win games and they've gotten tired.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    It is difficult for people to deal with success. You see it over and over. People tend to forget the process they used to start to win. The Pacers are no different. On the offense we need to get back to more ball movement and sharing the ball rather than trying to do it all yourself. On defense we need to do a better job of defending the perimeter.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    THis is what I have been clamoring for. Vogel has no clue. You got 2 guys on the bench now that need the ball in their hands to be effective. Vogel hasnt' got a clue on how to use these guys right. Need to pair Turner with both Hill and Copeland so that he has effective shooters to kick it out to.
    THIS IS WHAT THE **** I'VE BEEN SAYING!!!!!! SOMEBODY GETS IT!

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    I completely disagree with this. It looked like the type of players who put up good numbers in garbage time to me. Copeland took several bad shots that missed badly too. ET was playing hero ball. Not winning basketball, garbage time jack up selfish shots is how it looked to me. Pacers are fine, the way the starting 5 plays normally is exactly what is needed. ET needs to drive more to pass. I think this will be the precursor to gearing up for the playoffs and the ship will be righted. Copeland jacking up 25 footers in that situation shows nothing.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I don't think he's quick enough to guard 3's. At backup four would work best.
    I still think he's quick enough to guard Marvin Williams, Rashard Lewis types.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    I want to see more Copeland, he can shoot and we need an assassin off the bench. How many title teams did not have one? I cant think of ANY

  19. #14

    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    I'm always seeing "play more Cope", "play more Turner", "give Lance more/less run with the 1s/2s", "etc.

    I think the common thread here is not that there is any one constant minutes change that will prove the solution, but rather, that Vogel has to be WAY more willing to figure out what his lineups have to offer in-game, and ride hot hands. Some nights, it will be Turner's show. Some nights, maybe Cope or Scola have the hot hand.

    There's not a universal truth to WHO needs more/less minutes. Rather, the universal truth that Vogel needs to not view minutes as a set, pre-determined thing.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I completely disagree with this. It looked like the type of players who put up good numbers in garbage time to me. Copeland took several bad shots that missed badly too. ET was playing hero ball. Not winning basketball, garbage time jack up selfish shots is how it looked to me. Pacers are fine, the way the starting 5 plays normally is exactly what is needed. ET needs to drive more to pass. I think this will be the precursor to gearing up for the playoffs and the ship will be righted. Copeland jacking up 25 footers in that situation shows nothing.




    Um, WHAT? Evan and the bench brought us back in the first half. Guy had 6 points off the bench in the first half, and 16 in the second half. Him and Cope were trying to shoot us back into the game. He was 9 of 12 from the field, 2 of 2 from three point range. And Copeland? Was 3 of 5 from the field last night! 3 of 5 from three, and 2 free throws for 11 points. What game were you watching?

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    I'm always seeing "play more Cope", "play more Turner", "give Lance more/less run with the 1s/2s", "etc.

    I think the common thread here is not that there is any one constant minutes change that will prove the solution, but rather, that Vogel has to be WAY more willing to figure out what his lineups have to offer in-game, and ride hot hands. Some nights, it will be Turner's show. Some nights, maybe Cope or Scola have the hot hand.

    There's not a universal truth to WHO needs more/less minutes. Rather, the universal truth that Vogel needs to not view minutes as a set, pre-determined thing.


    But he has to be willing to do that. Our bench brought us back in the first half. And rather than take advantage of that, and maybe throw Turner and Cope in with the starters in half number 2..........Vogel went with all starters. And Charlotte churned up the blowout machine again.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I still think he's quick enough to guard Marvin Williams, Rashard Lewis types.
    Those guys are mainly playing the role of stretch fours now aren't they? I'm pretty certain Marvin Williams is. The point is moot anyway; you don't need to guard the Marvin Williams, Rashard Lewis types because they aren't any good.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I still think he's quick enough to guard Marvin Williams, Rashard Lewis types.
    I guess. Rashard has had knee surgeries and Marvin is just a spot up shooter. Still, I trust him better with 4's and maybe 5's.

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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Copeland took several bad shots that missed badly too.
    That's not true. Copeland only missed 2 shots and even if you considered them bad shots it still doesn't constitute as several.
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    Default Re: One positive from last nights loss....

    Turner can be such a huge asset. Now our All stars need to start playing like All stars
    "We want Miami"

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