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Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

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  • #16
    Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

    JO is easily the 2nd best Pacer in the NBA era right now. That's going to change very soon, but he's mostly been really under appreciated, as a player, by the majority of Pacers' fans.

    That six season stretch when he made the All-Star Game every year was incredible.

    Edit: I looked it up because I was curious: He averaged 18.6 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.0 assists, and 2.5 blocks in his 8 seasons with the Pacers. Not too shabby.
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 03-04-2014, 04:35 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

      I think JO gets a worse rap around these parts, then in all honesty, he should. Was he perfect? No. Were there times where he acted like a diva and not the bonafide leader he was paid and supposed to be? Absolutely. However, it's never easy replacing a legend (Reggie), and while JO never quite took over the team the way he should've. He's probably one of the best and most talented big men the Pacers ever had. He put up a string of terrific seasons and at least in the public spotlight, was well spoken and did the right things.

      It's a shame that he lost his knees because when he could "lift" when he was younger, he was a really fun player to watch. He suffered some odd injuries to that knee, but he also bulked up and placed a lot of unnecessary weight on those knees so that he could play center for the Pacers, which I think a lot of people forget about. In hindsight, that was probably a mistake. Either way, it would be nice if he could finish his career with the Pacers in some capacity, whether that is some ceremony or one day deal. However, I think he's a reminder of the The Brawl, so the Pacers may just avoid the issue entirely and let him fade away.
      Last edited by PR07; 03-04-2014, 05:22 PM. Reason: bc

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      • #18
        Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

        I would have LOVED to see him as a backup big off the bench for us and see him win a title here.

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        • #19
          Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

          Originally posted by Ragnar View Post
          I would have LOVED to see him as a backup big off the bench for us and see him win a title here.
          I never want to see that bum in blue and gold ever again. He had his shot here for a title yet he chose (along with Jackson, Tinsley and Artest) to derail Reggie's last shot at a ring.

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          • #20
            Re: Jermaoine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

            Originally posted by Hicks View Post
            My opinion of JO over the years went way up, way down, and now it's back to mostly up again. Loved him in his prime here, soured on him as I heard unflattering things about him behind the scenes (prima donna stuff, fighting with Artest, though the latter point I don't entirely blame him, really), and of course as his health and game declined, but looking back, I don't blame him for his body betraying him, and I think his other issues, if you put them on THIS team rather than THAT team, would seem far, far less of a problem than they seemed at the time, so I don't really care much about that stuff, either.

            I think overall Jermaine O'Neal was a nice, good person who gave us some great years in his prime as a Pacer, someone who loved BEING a Pacer, someone who cared about legacy and about this franchise, and he honored and respected the Pacer legend he got to play with (Reggie Miller), and I wish him the best, honestly.
            Great post Hicks.

            I don't really think he was a huge part of the problem as many make him out to be. He was on a team with a bunch of selfish players that only cared about the lifestyle and money that the NBA brought them. I feel like had he been on a TEAM like we have now, most would look at him in a completely different light.

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            • #21
              Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

              I read all of these testimonials to JO and all I know about the guy is when they played those Pistons in the years we had a chance, Rasheed would have him over for dinner the night before the game and then just eat JO up on the court on game day.
              Seemed JO was easily intimidated by his "friends."

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              • #22
                Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                Originally posted by Fawn Lebowitz View Post
                I never want to see that bum in blue and gold ever again. He had his shot here for a title yet he chose (along with Jackson, Tinsley and Artest) to derail Reggie's last shot at a ring.
                These are the posts that I hate so damn much. JO isn't the one that went into the stands. Artest is. Artest is the one who ****ed it all up. Yeah, there was some locker room **** with JO, no doubt about it. But that isn't what cost up our best shot at the title. It was Artest. And then once again it was Artest who demanded a trade the next year.

                So many people look at JO and just see him as the one who failed to bring a Championship to Indy. No one looks at Reggie, or anyone from the 90s teams like that. Artest ruined the mid 00's team. Not JO, not Jackson, not even Tinsley.

                "That bum" was one of the best Pacers of all time and at his peak, was arguably the best Pacer of all time.

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                • #23
                  Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                  Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
                  These are the posts that I hate so damn much. JO isn't the one that went into the stands. Artest is. Artest is the one who ****ed it all up. Yeah, there was some locker room **** with JO, no doubt about it. But that isn't what cost up our best shot at the title. It was Artest. And then once again it was Artest who demanded a trade the next year.

                  So many people look at JO and just see him as the one who failed to bring a Championship to Indy. No one looks at Reggie, or anyone from the 90s teams like that. Artest ruined the mid 00's team. Not JO, not Jackson, not even Tinsley.

                  "That bum" was one of the best Pacers of all time and at his peak, was arguably the best Pacer of all time.
                  I am not going to go that far with my comments about JO, but I can see why some have a sour taste in their mouth about him. JO always talked a big game, but in crunch time he was nowhere to be found. He signed the big contract and never lived up to it. Yes, part of it was injuries, but part of it was that he was just never a #1.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Jermaoine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                    Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                    My opinion of JO over the years went way up, way down, and now it's back to mostly up again. Loved him in his prime here, soured on him as I heard unflattering things about him behind the scenes (prima donna stuff, fighting with Artest, though the latter point I don't entirely blame him, really), and of course as his health and game declined, but looking back, I don't blame him for his body betraying him, and I think his other issues, if you put them on THIS team rather than THAT team, would seem far, far less of a problem than they seemed at the time, so I don't really care much about that stuff, either.

                    I think overall Jermaine O'Neal was a nice, good person who gave us some great years in his prime as a Pacer, someone who loved BEING a Pacer, someone who cared about legacy and about this franchise, and he honored and respected the Pacer legend he got to play with (Reggie Miller), and I wish him the best, honestly.
                    Thanking this post is not enough. This is one of the best descriptions of JO I have read on this board. I had his bobblehead and he was my favorite player for awhile. Things changed over time very much as Hicks described.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                      http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...-good/6049823/

                      Bob Kravitz: Former Pacer Jermaine O'Neal was (and is) oh-so-good
                      Bob Kravitz, IndyStar 9:46 a.m. EST March 5, 2014
                      For someone who produced for Pacers and city, he got a bum rap after the brawl

                      If we're going to be honest about this, the chance that Jermaine O'Neal's No. 7 Pacers jersey will hang in the Banker's Life Fieldhouse rafters someday is the longest of long shots. For better or worse — mostly worse — he got caught in the wash of The Brawl and the post-Brawl hysterics, unfairly becoming a representative of everything that had gone wrong with the Indiana Pacers in 2003-04 and beyond.

                      And that's a shame. Because O'Neal is not only one of the best players ever to don a Pacers' uniform, but one of the very best people to come through this town. From the time he arrived in 2000 as a skinny kid to the time he was dealt for the rights to draft Roy Hibbert, O'Neal gave body and soul to this organization. And if the Brawl hadn't happened, if Ron Artest hadn't gone up into the stands in Detroit, there's a pretty good chance O'Neal could have delivered a championship.

                      "I would appreciate (having the jersey hang in Bankers Life),'' O'Neal said before Tuesday night's 98-96 last-second Pacers loss to the Golden State Warriors. "Funny, I was talking to some people earlier today about the perception of some people in the city, like I gave up on them. I don't know what was said after I was gone, but there was one meeting I had with Larry Bird, Donnie Walsh and Herb Simon, and we all mutually agreed we wanted to put the team in the best position to move on to the next chapter.

                      "You're talking about a situation that just wore on everybody. And until you clean the shelves you just can't move on. But my love for this city, I think I proved that. The amount of money I put into this city, the food drives, the Christmas gifts — I didn't get sponsorships for any of that. My love for this organization to this day is still the same. I'll always be considered a Pacer. People ask me who I want to retire as, it'll be as a Pacer, there's no doubt.''

                      In the end, it's unlikely O'Neal's jersey will join the likes of Mel Daniels and Reggie Miller. The harsh memories of that day in Detroit are still too fresh, still too recent having happened nine years ago. He was the marquee player on that team, and when that team fell apart — and it fell apart the year after the Brawl with several off-court incidents and Artest's trade request — it somehow shone a negative light on O'Neal.

                      Which was hugely unfair.

                      Statistically, O'Neal rates as one of the best Pacers ever. players ever to don a Pacers jersey. He was a six-time All Star. He was the 2001-02 Most Improved Player. He was three-time all-NBA. He finished third in the MVP voting in 2004. He's the franchise leader in blocked shots and third in all-time scoring average, ahead of even Reggie Miller.

                      "I would like to think I'd be considered one of the best Pacers who ever played,'' O'Neal said. "Numbers don't lie. If that's the case (the Pacers retire his jersey), great, and if not, I promise you I won't be bitter about it because that experience, that situation got me to where I am now.''

                      For all his excellence, though, he is remembered for being the centerpiece of a team that imploded.

                      Did he play a role in the Brawl? Absolutely. When two idiot fans walked onto the floor looking for trouble, O'Neal took a running start, thankfully slipped (or he would have killed somebody) and punched the interlopers in the head. His actions, though, were forgivable. By then the whole thing had gotten treacherously out of hand, and two fans had taken it upon themselves to walk onto the floor in front of the Pacers bench.

                      "It's not something I like to talk about,'' O'Neal said. "…The Brawl divided the whole city. It became a cultural issue. That's the biggest issue I had with the whole thing. And remember, people made bad decisions after that. But you can't condemn a culture for what happened. A person for what they did, yes, but the problem was it became a cultural issue, it became a big conversation piece. Then the tattoos, the headbands and the braids became too much. That's the issue I had.

                      "But I completely understood a change was needed. And you've got to accept whatever role you played in it.''

                      Now he was back in town with the Golden State Warriors, taking a victory tour of the NBA in what will likely (not surely, but likely) his 18th and final season. And Tuesday, he wasn't just taking up a spot on the bench, playing more minutes (30) than all but two Golden State starters while scoring seven points, grabbing four offensive rebounds and blocking two shots.

                      It's strange to think about the skinny kid who came here in 2000, the spindly guy with the impossibly long arms and legs, only to see him now, a man in full, the father of two, a wizened sage of a player.

                      He was asked if he was looking at this as his last game at Bankers Life, which was Conseco back during O'Neal's days.

                      "Absolutely,'' he said. "I look at every arena different now, (Madison Square) Garden the other night, every bus ride is different. It's like having a girlfriend you've loved so much for so long. Then when you're coming to the end, it becomes very emotional and you tend to slow down and appreciate everything a little bit more. The opportunity to play this game has been fantastic, the good, the bad and the ugly.''

                      O'Neal will not always be a uniformly beloved figure in this town — he got appreciative but lukewarm applause when he entered Tuesday night's game — and that's kind of a shame.

                      He was always one of my favorites, even when we had our occasional verbal sparring sessions.

                      Still is.

                      Always will be.

                      Bob Kravitz is a columnist for The Indianapolis Star. Call him at (317) 444-6643 or email bob.kravitz@indystar.com. Follow him on Twitter: @BKravitz.
                      I know I'm in the minority about this, but I absolutely think #7 should be up there.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                        The article from Bob feels forced considering all the times he absolutely murdered JO and the Pacers in his columns.


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                        • #27
                          Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                          I don't think that the 05 team would have made it past Detroit if the brawl didn't happen. That Detroit team just had superior mental strength.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                            JO has a career in marketing if he wants it after he retires. He has always "dominated the paint" when it comes to saying all the right things to the media.

                            Do I feel somewhat sorry for him? Yes. He was a lean, extremely athletic power forward who was asked to bulk up to play center and that ended up breaking him down prematurely. Also, he was basically forced into a leadership role after Reggie retired, which he was never suited for, and that put even more pressure on him. If those two things had not happened, I feel that he would have ended up with a rafter-worthy career here.

                            However, he really didn't feel a huge loyalty toward the Pacers like the picture he paints, particularly after he had gone to San Antonio looking to join Duncan right as Larry Bird joined the front office. What made him decide to come back here? An assurance from somebody in our front office that, despite an abysmal coaching performance, Isiah Thomas would be retained as head coach. I am sure that would not have been Larry Bird who had been quoted in the media at the end of the prior season about how the Pacers would have won a lot more games if they had been properly coached. It was assumed by many, and openly rooted for by a lot of fans, that Bird would bring Carlisle in to coach as soon as he came in, which he did. Supposedly Larry never spoke to JO prior to firing Isiah and hiring Rick, but hired Rick only AFTER JO committed to his max deal here, and that really honked JO off. I don't think he ever got over that as long as he was still here, and I would venture to guess that the feeling was mutual.

                            Also, don't forget the summer rumblings that JO and Kobe had tried to privately orchestrate JO going to the Lakers, probably ironically in exchange for Bynum and pieces. I'm sure that did not sit well in the Pacers front office, and I would say that damaged the relationship between JO and the front office even more. Eventually, when the Pacers finally were able to do the trade with Toronto, I am sure that both JO and the front office were thrilled that JO's time as a Pacer was mercifully at an end.

                            So, I can say that while I appreciated JO's service and agree that without the brawl the Pacers would have won the title, likely more than one, IMO he did not ever "bleed Blue and Gold" and I believe he was a primary contributor to the "me first" culture of the massively talented yet fatally flawed team that nearly drove the Pacers out of Indy.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                              I still don't think that 04/05 team would've came up big when it needed to. I remember I think it was the 02 playoffs, when JO had become "the man" and that 5 game series against the 1 seed Nets, he destroyed them in game 1, then was dominated by Kenyon Martin the rest of the series, and Reggie had to pull off his set of miracles in game 5 to make that a classic game.

                              If it weren't the brawl it probably would've been something else.
                              "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

                              ----------------- Reggie Miller

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                              • #30
                                Re: Jermaine O'Neal going for a championship. Some of his comments on the brawl in Detroit

                                I always partially blame management for putting JO in a leadership position that he wasn't equipped to do or handle. Then surround him with knucklesheads. Its almost the exact opposite as it was before him and as it is now again. That said, I can't not associate him with the darkest time in my favorite teams history, as unfair as that is.

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