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Thread: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

  1. #76

    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    What does "not going to get better" mean in this instance? It's not giving him any trouble right now.
    Yeah its not giving him any trouble but its not what it used to be and its clear that its limiting him. He looks like he is playing in slow motion

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    you're in the Netherlands--why aren't you?!
    Yeah, yeah, I know. lol.

    Anyway, serious answer to a joking remark, because it doesn't AT ALL fit into my (sporting and family) lifestyle and to be honest I just have always detested it.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    LeBron is also an elite jump shooter. If David comes out and tries to guard LeBron, LeBron will just easily drive past him. It would never work.
    Yeah, that's true. I guess you guys are right in that on Defense West is not a very good fit vs James. On offense though I LOVE what he does to Lebron and taking that kind of a pounding just has to have somekind of an influence on your offense or, better stated, your fitness level aswell. Even on Lebron.

    Ideally IMHO you have James guarding West on offense and Paul guarding Lebron on defense. But, true this was about defense, so yeah I guess George and then Granger and then Lance would have been best at guarding James, though Danny was still a good defender but less mobile and that probably would have been much more of a problem against Lebron then pretty much anyone else.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I thought he would after a few games. IMO Granger as he is now is the best sf on that team and he'll get better as the season moves on. I really think Granger is going to look good in this system and the role he'll have with them. I'm still in observation mode with Turner but it's too early to say who will be the better player between Granger and Turner come May.
    How is a new system going to change the fact that Granger has not been able to put the ball in the bucket from anywhere on the court this season? It wasn't the teammates, coaching, or system in Indy that was the problem......it was the fact that Granger couldn't consistently make shots. Even in our relatively slow system, Granger showed about as much zip and movement on offense as a 15 year old poodle. Thus, I don't see how a more up tempo Clippers system is going to help him.

    As to Granger v. Turner, Turner is a superior player at the moment and that's not going to change this season unless Granger is able to zap another player's talents like the aliens in Space Jam. I'm not convinced that time is going to help Granger this season when he actually looked worse and worse here as time went on.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-03-2014 at 08:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    As to Granger v. Turner, Turner is a superior player at the moment and that's not going to change this season unless Granger is able to zap another player's talents like the aliens in Space Jam. I'm not convinced that time is going to help Granger this season when he actually looked worse and worse here as time went on.
    You mean for the whole two months? Progress after a hefty injury can be, but certainly isn't always linear. I can't look into the future, but to me it's obvious he will get better during the season. Better then Turner? That's not likely, no. Which together with having a plan B in the summer when it comes to Lance was IMHO the reason Bird went out and traded for him. Getting Allen in the process made it even more logical.

    Next season who knows whose better? IF Danny can get better and continue to recover from his injury, like say David West did after his, who is to say he isn't the better player then? On the same account Turner could progress nicely aswell as he's still young, etc. But, to all extents and purposes whether Danny would be better or not next year, unfortunately, was irrelevant as it was very obvious that this season was going to be his last season playing for the Pacers as Lance was going to be priority number 1 leaving not enough money for Danny.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    How is a new system going to change the fact that Granger has not been able to put the ball in the bucket from anywhere on the court this season? It wasn't the teammates, coaching, or system in Indy that was the problem......it was the fact that Granger couldn't consistently make shots. Even in our relatively slow system, Granger showed about as much zip and movement on offense as a 15 year old poodle. Thus, I don't see how a more up tempo Clippers system is going to help him.

    As to Granger v. Turner, Turner is a superior player at the moment and that's not going to change this season unless Granger is able to zap another player's talents like the aliens in Space Jam. I'm not convinced that time is going to help Granger this season when he actually looked worse and worse here as time went on.
    O.K., he wasn't able to hit a single shot from anywhere.
    However, if he manages just 1 more shot per game he'll be in double figures. It's not a reach to think that he'll get that in L.A. The system here was an issue in limiting his minutes and shot opportunities, even when Granger was hot Vogel would pull him and only play him around 20 minutes. I saw many, many times that Granger was open that Lance in particular wouldn't get him the ball. If you don't think the system makes a difference, Turner went 2-9 last night in 20 minutes and his scoring has gone south since coming here. I think Vogel under utilized Granger and I think he'll under utilize Turner just like he did last night. It's still way too early to tell but I think the odds are that Granger will average more for the Clippers between now and the end of the season then Turner will for the Pacers. They're both good players now but I think Granger will slowly continue to improve as the season progresses and improve even more next year. I still think Granger has several years of good basketball in him, he's not done. You were the first person to thank the ridiculous comment by Amico where he said Granger was done and had zero interest from any other teams. Yet somehow he had contenders lining up to sign him. I enjoy a lot of your post but I don't think our opinions on Granger will ever align, we'll have to see how the season plays out.

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  10. #82

    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Turner ................ his scoring has gone south since coming here.
    Really ?? Could we let a little more time play out before saying things like this ?? He's gone from being the focal point on a bad team to a supporting role on a pretty good team - and only a handful of games at that.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    How is a new system going to change the fact that Granger has not been able to put the ball in the bucket from anywhere on the court this season?
    Because he'll adjust to the way his body performs?

    Answer a simple question, do you really think a player who sat out 18 months comes back and performs at the level they're going to within 2 1/2 months?


    I think most people realize that players need time to adjust. West didn't come back from his ACL 100%, I honestly can't think of one player that has. Yeah, Danny didn't have an ACL problem, but it's still the same principle in having to sit out for a length of time and needing to re-adjust yourself.

    Will he get better? I don't know, I didn't renew my subscription to my crytal ball but I know thinking that it won't happen is based purely on biased speculation.

    EDIT: I just don't get why people have to stake out a position, and then declare themselves right before any time is actually given. What's wrong with evaluating things as they come, rather than trying to be the first one right?
    Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Do you guys think the Clips should start him once playoff time happens?
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Really ?? Could we let a little more time play out before saying things like this ?? He's gone from being the focal point on a bad team to a supporting role on a pretty good team - and only a handful of games at that.
    As I said in the same post you quoted, it's too early to tell. I'm still very much in observation mode on Turner but so far I think he's a good player. I also think Vogel is under utilizing him just as he did Granger. We shouldn't be playing Paul and Lance both 40+ minutes against a bad team in March like we did last night. I wish Vogel would use his depth just a little more then he has but I don't see him changing much from that and as a result I doubt if Turner gets the playing time he should.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    O.K., he wasn't able to hit a single shot from anywhere.
    However, if he manages just 1 more shot per game he'll be in double figures. It's not a reach to think that he'll get that in L.A. The system here was an issue in limiting his minutes and shot opportunities, even when Granger was hot Vogel would pull him and only play him around 20 minutes. I saw many, many times that Granger was open that Lance in particular wouldn't get him the ball. If you don't think the system makes a difference, Turner went 2-9 last night in 20 minutes and his scoring has gone south since coming here. I think Vogel under utilized Granger and I think he'll under utilize Turner just like he did last night. It's still way too early to tell but I think the odds are that Granger will average more for the Clippers between now and the end of the season then Turner will for the Pacers. They're both good players now but I think Granger will slowly continue to improve as the season progresses and improve even more next year. I still think Granger has several years of good basketball in him, he's not done. You were the first person to thank the ridiculous comment by Amico where he said Granger was done and had zero interest from any other teams. Yet somehow he had contenders lining up to sign him. I enjoy a lot of your post but I don't think our opinions on Granger will ever align, we'll have to see how the season plays out.
    In Turner's third game here, he put up 17 points. Granger didn't hit 17 in any of his 29 games this season. Turner also put up a 13 point game. DG only did that four times this year. Turner won't average the 17 that he did in Philly, but he should be a much better scorer here than Granger.

    I think everyone can agree that Lance enjoys padding his assists, right? So why would he ignore a wide open Granger if Granger was capable of consistently drilling shots? Doesn't make sense. The more logical explanation, IMO, is that Lance grew tired off watching Granger and Scola clank shots. That's why he started trying to do more with the second unit.

    The problem here wasn't Lance, Vogel, or the system. The problem was that Granger was a shell of his old self.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Because he'll adjust to the way his body performs?

    Answer a simple question, do you really think a player who sat out 18 months comes back and performs at the level they're going to within 2 1/2 months?


    I think most people realize that players need time to adjust. West didn't come back from his ACL 100%, I honestly can't think of one player that has. Yeah, Danny didn't have an ACL problem, but it's still the same principle in having to sit out for a length of time and needing to re-adjust yourself.

    Will he get better? I don't know, I didn't renew my subscription to my crytal ball but I know thinking that it won't happen is based purely on biased speculation.

    EDIT: I just don't get why people have to stake out a position, and then declare themselves right before any time is actually given. What's wrong with evaluating things as they come, rather than trying to be the first one right?
    West two years ago was far closer to his old self than DG has been this year. West shot a FG% that was virtually identical to his career average. He didn't get as many minutes or shot attempts as he had in previous years, but he was still a very efficient player. This is a far cry from Granger this year, whose shooting percentages have fallen off of a cliff. He looked like a complete shell of his old self.

    Regardless, my point was that Granger's poor performance here this season is because his game was a shell of his old self. Pacerized has blamed Vogel, Lance, and the system numerous times recently, as if changing scenery will cure all of the deficiencies that we saw here. Maybe he is right, and good for DG if he is. I wasn't making any absolute predictions about DG's future in my post other than that Turner will be a better player than DG from here on out. All I'm saying is that Granger's teammates and coaches are not the ones at fault for his poor play. The issue was that he wasn't good here anymore.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The problem was that Granger was a shell of his old self.
    As much as I hate to say it, he was a shell both physically and mentally.

    Fingers crossed that a new change of scenery gives him a reboot. Sure did love that kid.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    If there were going to be any system that would benefit Granger at this point it would be playing in an up-tempo offense with CP3 running point and Blake drawing defenders as he crashes to the hoop. Time will tell whether or not he will be able to have success in LA, but I hope the increase in PT and offensive opportunities will prove to be beneficial to DG as it has to other former Pacer bench players (Gerald Green, DJ Augustin)

    Time will tell, but there isn't enough evidence either way to really know at this point.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I wasn't making any absolute predictions about DG's future in my post other than that Turner will be a better player than DG from here on out. All I'm saying is that Granger's teammates and coaches are not the ones at fault for his poor play. The issue was that he wasn't good here anymore.
    Really? You've been declaring Danny donezo since the beginning, without ever seeing him on the floor. Now you've seen him on the floor, and you use his FG% to back up your assertion that he's done. It looks like to me, you built your opinion on the issue, about a year ago, and everything since has only strengthened that position. Which is fine, btw, but I think we can be open enough to admit that certain opinions have been formed and argued continually.

    What's your answer to the question about you thinking a player who sits out 18 months would be at their "normal" within 2 1/2 months?

    I don't know if Danny will get better in a new system, but I know that's it's really hard for players to change their style of play when they're healthy, let alone change their style and recovery from serious knee issues all at the same time.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014 at 02:02 PM.
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  23. #91

    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What's your answer to the question about you thinking a player who sits out 18 months would be at their "normal" within 2 1/2 months?
    OK - just to be THAT GUY, I'll ask how long does it take for someone to return to 'normal' ?? 3 months ?? 4 months ?? 18 months ??

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    OK - just to be THAT GUY, I'll ask how long does it take for someone to return to 'normal' ?? 3 months ?? 4 months ?? 18 months ??
    There is no schedule. I'm not saying he will. But I know thinking he should, in 2 1/2 months, is setting up failure on probably 99% of people.

    Westbrook is probably the best example of someone recovering at that type of pace, but then again, it didn't last long. Maybe Dirk, but even though his shooting numbers are/were better than Danny's, it still took him awhile to go from a good shooter, back to Dirk. I can't think of any other recent examples that even come close.

    EDIT: I'll be a little bit more fair and give my expectations. I'd say give him until Dec. of next season. I'm fully aware that the Pacers didn't have that much time to wait on him, which is why I fully back the Turner trade.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014 at 02:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I thought he would after a few games. IMO Granger as he is now is the best sf on that team and he'll get better as the season moves on. I really think Granger is going to look good in this system and the role he'll have with them. I'm still in observation mode with Turner but it's too early to say who will be the better player between Granger and Turner come May.
    It'll be funny to me when he plays well and all his detractors switch to the new narrative "well, only because of Chris Paul..."

    Though to be fair, Danny's game is probably ideally suited to playing off of a dynamic PG, much more so than being asked to create. He should really thrive in LA.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    And another thing, it's just really really really weird seeing posters who like the Bynum signing talking about how Danny's done.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Really? You've been declaring Danny donezo since the beginning, without ever seeing him on the floor. Now you've seen him on the floor, and you use his FG% to back up your assertion that he's done. It looks like to me, you built your opinion on the issue, about a year ago, and everything since has only strengthened that position. Which is fine, btw, but I think we can be open enough to admit that certain opinions have been formed and argued continually.

    What's your answer to the question about you thinking a player who sits out 18 months would be at their "normal" within 2 1/2 months?

    I don't know if Danny will get better in a new system, but I know that's it's really hard for players to change their style of play when they're healthy, let alone change their style and recovery from serious knee issues all at the same time.
    I don't know how long it should take for someone to get back to "normal", but I think it's fair to expect some improvement as time goes on. Danny never got any better over the two month span that he was back and in fact got worse as time went on. Holding him to a 20ppg standard would have been unrealistic, but I don't think that expecting some improvement over 29 games was an outlandish expectation. It just never happened. Sure guys like Dirk and D West looked off after their injuries, but they were still pretty good players who showed flashes of their old brilliance. Granger OTOH looks like a complete shell of his old self.

    I hope he improves and maybe a change of scenery will be good for him. It couldn't have been easy mentally for him to watch his stature with the Pacers decline so rapidly. In LA, he has no expectations or prior history that he can be compared to. It's a complete fresh slate. He deserves to have a nice finish to his career after all of this bad luck. That being said, I just think it's pretty unfair to blame his ineffectiveness here this season on everything from Vogel, Lance, the system, and the polar vortex. It's not their fault that he was so poor on offense this year.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't know how long it should take for someone to get back to "normal", but I think it's fair to expect some improvement as time goes on. Danny never got any better over the two month span that he was back and in fact got worse as time went on. Holding him to a 20ppg standard would have been unrealistic, but I don't think that expecting some improvement over 29 games was an outlandish expectation. It just never happened. Sure guys like Dirk and D West looked off after their injuries, but they were still pretty good players who showed flashes of their old brilliance. Granger OTOH looks like a complete shell of his old self.

    I hope he improves and maybe a change of scenery will be good for him. It couldn't have been easy mentally for him to watch his stature with the Pacers decline so rapidly. In LA, he has no expectations or prior history that he can be compared to. It's a complete fresh slate. He deserves to have a nice finish to his career after all of this bad luck. That being said, I just think it's pretty unfair to blame his ineffectiveness here this season on everything from Vogel, Lance, the system, and the polar vortex. It's not their fault that he was so poor on offense this year.
    His shot got worse as time went on, but I thought his movement was much improved. It was easiest to see on defense, though I will admit I ballwatch terribly when the Pacers are playing offense. But he was missing all kinds of wide open jumpers and lightly contested layups. I think his main problem was attitude; he was so worried about protecting his knee and "fitting in" to the Pacers' team identity that he didn't look to score aggressively enough. He got a reality check for being traded from a contender and I think that will get him going. Having Chris Paul drop perfect dimes won't hurt either.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't know how long it should take for someone to get back to "normal", but I think it's fair to expect some improvement as time goes on. Danny never got any better over the two month span that he was back and in fact got worse as time went on.
    Seriously? We can look at his FG% and debunk that right away.

    Dec FG% - 28.9%
    Jan FG% - 38.5%
    Feb FG% - 35.3%

    I don't expect a straight trend line up, it's going to have valleys and peaks. Trying to argue that Danny hasn't gotten any better, is completely devoid of what the stats say he's done. You've not even given enough time to see a trend line, before you're ready to declare he never got better.

    EDIT: Actually there is enough for a trend line, and it's going up.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014 at 03:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Seriously? We can look at his FG% and debunk that right away.

    Dec FG% - 28.9%
    Jan FG% - 38.5%
    Feb FG% - 35.3%


    I don't expect a straight trend line up, it's going to have valleys and peaks. Trying to argue that Danny hasn't gotten any better, is completely devoid of what the stats say he's done. You've not even given enough time to see a trend line, before you're ready to declare he never got better.
    Well he only played 5 games in December, but the way you have it laid out makes it seem as though Dec and January have equal weight, which obviously isn't the case. He played the five games in December and shot horrible, which was expected because of the long time away from the game. Then he shoots 38.5% in January, his first full month back. That wouldn't have been too bad if he improved on it and got his February average in the 40's. But that obviously didn't happen, as your stats say with the 35.3% in Feb. So yeah, there was virtually no consistent improvement at all.

  36. #99
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Why would you expect someone to steadily get better, and not have ups and downs? Since you want to throw out Dec, we have two months worth of information.

    Do you think 2 months is enough to properly evaluate where Danny will be next Oct?

    If the answer is no, then you just shot down your own point.
    If the answer is yes, then there's not much left to say other than, we'll see.

    EDIT: And I'm still curious as to how you formulate this opinion on Danny, and yet are massively in favor of Bynum's addition. One would think his long history of knee troubles would strengthen the idea that he's done, rather than give hope, much more so than Danny's two months.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014 at 03:24 PM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  37. #100
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    the need to impress on anyone that DG sucked or sucks is amazing, you don't like him, you have other heroes, fine with us, but please stop trying to prove we are all wrong for liking or having liked DG33 who played almost 9 years for us and won MIP and and All-Star selection, was the 1st player ever to raise his avg by 5pt per season over at least 3 seasons and was a gentleman even with all the **** he had to take here.
    We are not wrong in that, and we agree he had produced little the last 2 years and that it changed the picture completely, but it does not make the "pain" any less of seeing him go.
    Why can you not simply respect people for still carrying a torch for this guy and give them time to learn to like "your" favorites instead of making it a pissin-contest which in it's own right makes most of us argue against your favorites just to "protect" our own feelings. You are creating an atmosphere where we have a choice to either love our guy and thus hate yours or love yours as well and disavow "our guy" and that just aint right.

    Please let it rest and don't make liking or having enjoyed DG33 a crime, it wasn't and it isn't

    I wish him well, and much success, and go Pacers!
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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