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Thread: Evan or Lance?

  1. #51
    Welcome CJ Miles! BlueCollarColts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    The tax threshold will be 75.7 million next year.
    Well good, thats about 4 million more than what the post below states, still most likely can't keep Turner and Lance though

  2. #52
    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It's extremely early, but right now I prefer Turner.
    So do Wade and Lebron

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    for me, lances upside is higher primarily due to athelticsm. I also believe lance has a better chance of developing 3 pt shot. if evan was gonna find a stroke from deep he would have it by now. also, lances defense should be better as well but I hope evan is better than he has shown thus far over his career.

    all that aside, I like evans passing, and just the overall maturity of his game. evan may end up getting the bigger offer in FA. who knows.
    I don't think Lance is more athletic, and that is also what the numbers show from the combine. I will say as far as the 3 pt shot that maybe true, but their career 3 pt average is about the same with Turner like .002 higher. But both have a really good mid ranged game which they use effectively and both can get to the rim as well as draw defenders and find open outlet guys. I think both are above average defenders, and think the big difference between the two comes with age (2yrs).

    Basically I think they are fairly comparable, but I don't think it is easy to say Lance's potential is way higher than Turners.
    Why so SERIOUS

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Quick question, how did you determine his upside is way higher?
    Whoever is going to get paid more has the higher upside
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  7. #55
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    So do Wade and Lebron
    Pacers Evan Turner is not equal to Sixers Evan Turner... just saying... Pacers system is really good with his skillset, I think he will do really well with us for the rest of his CAREER, lol
    Why so SERIOUS

  8. #56
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Pacers Evan Turner is not equal to Sixers Evan Turner... just saying... Pacers system is really good with his skillset, I think he will do really well with us for the rest of his CAREER, lol
    Turner will never get under the skin of Wade and Lebron like Lance does...regardless of what team hes playing for

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  10. #57
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Gotta go with Lance. He already has a ton of experience pouring water on his teammates' heads during post-game interviews. I don't see how Evan can learn the system that quickly.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    So let's create the "should Evan Turner's number be retired ?" thread

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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Is this a serious thread? Really...
    Pacers fan since April 9th 2004 - New Jersey 80 Indiana 90.

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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Sidenote I like Lavoy Allen, but really 3.1 million, that is pretty crazy...
    That contract was ridiculous when it was handed out IIRC it was at the end of his rookie year and he just played well against a broken down Kevin Garnett.

    they gave him 6 million of a playoff series.
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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  17. #61
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamer View Post
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    Is this a serious thread? Really...
    There is no discussion, off course, Lance is by far the best player, and will be even better

    LANCE FOR DANCE

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  19. #62

    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

    I think we all need to learn some of the finer details of the luxury tax. I get the impression that some people around here (not necessarily you, I'm just responding to this post) aren't familiar with just how restrictive it is to a small market team. It isn't as simple as Simon opening his pocketbook and dishing out $2-3 extra million bucks to keep the core together. It isn't just a dollar-for-dollar system anymore.

    According to HoopsHype, the Pacers have $65.7 million dollars in salaries wrapped up for next season. Let's say you waive Scola's partially guaranteed contract, then you are down to just over $62 million dollars. The projected luxury tax line for next season is $71.6 million. So that means even if we waive Scola, we have just under $10 million before we hit the luxury tax line. So **** the luxury tax you say? Okay, let's go low and assume Lance makes ~$10 million per year on his next contract, which puts us right over the tax line. Let's furthur assume that ET gets a contract slightly below his qualifying offer of $8.7 million and make it a clean $8 million/year--right in line with what George Hill makes. So now we are ~$18 million dollars over the tax line with 11 players under contract. We would need to fill out the roster to 13 players or so I'm guessing, and those guys would be minimum deal guys, but depending on how long they have been in the NBA, they are still going to cost around $1 million/season (Note: The NBA does pay for half of the minimum salaried player's check, so not all of it hits us for minimum level guys). Now we are looking at being around $20 million dollars over the luxury tax line. Yikes.

    For argument's sake, let's say we kept it slightly below $20 million dollars over the tax. That puts you in the $15,000,000-$19,999,999 tax bracket, where the penalty isn't a dollar-for-dollar. It's $3.25 per dollar, which means we would be shelling out an additional $16 million dollars in luxury tax money. Say we went over the tax again the following season to keep this core together with roughly the same numbers: The tax number jumps up to $4.25 for every dollar spent, which ups our bill to the $21 million dollar range.

    But it doesn't stop there. That money we are paying in the luxury tax is not going into Adam Silver's pockets. It's being distributed around the league via revenue sharing and is shared by the non-tax paying teams in the league. So in addition to the extra money Simon is paying out, he is losing out on the money that had been coming to the team for "playing by the rules". That money is huge for small market teams such as the Pacers, especially seeing as how we were (are?) operating in the red for so long.

    Nope, we aren't done yet! If we are above the tax, we cannot use the Bi-Annual Exception. The Mid-Level Exception we can offer has fewer maximum years (3 as opposed to 4) and the starting salary for that player is lower. We cannot receive a player in a sign and trade deal if the trade still keeps us over the tax line.

    Caveat: I'm not an expert on the salary cap. Some of the finer details and minutiae may be off, but the general outline is fairly accurate.

    TL;DR: There is no way we can keep both of them.
    Yeah I know how it works. Sucks. But would be sweet if we were able to do it for 2 years after a title this year.
    All we need to be a contender is the guys on the current roster obviously. But I know it isn't likely to happen.
    Last edited by brownjake43; 02-26-2014 at 09:21 AM.

  20. #63
    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

    I think we all need to learn some of the finer details of the luxury tax. I get the impression that some people around here (not necessarily you, I'm just responding to this post) aren't familiar with just how restrictive it is to a small market team. It isn't as simple as Simon opening his pocketbook and dishing out $2-3 extra million bucks to keep the core together. It isn't just a dollar-for-dollar system anymore.

    According to HoopsHype, the Pacers have $65.7 million dollars in salaries wrapped up for next season. Let's say you waive Scola's partially guaranteed contract, then you are down to just over $62 million dollars. The projected luxury tax line for next season is $71.6 million. So that means even if we waive Scola, we have just under $10 million before we hit the luxury tax line. So **** the luxury tax you say? Okay, let's go low and assume Lance makes ~$10 million per year on his next contract, which puts us right over the tax line. Let's furthur assume that ET gets a contract slightly below his qualifying offer of $8.7 million and make it a clean $8 million/year--right in line with what George Hill makes. So now we are ~$18 million dollars over the tax line with 11 players under contract. We would need to fill out the roster to 13 players or so I'm guessing, and those guys would be minimum deal guys, but depending on how long they have been in the NBA, they are still going to cost around $1 million/season (Note: The NBA does pay for half of the minimum salaried player's check, so not all of it hits us for minimum level guys). Now we are looking at being around $20 million dollars over the luxury tax line. Yikes.
    If we are 10 Million under, then add Lance at 10 million, we are now even. So adding Turner at 8 million would put us 8 million over, not 18 million.

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  22. #64
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    So do Wade and Lebron
    Umm idk about that.

    Lance vs the Heat this season: 12.5, 7.5, 3.5, 2 TO, 1.5 FTA/gm
    Turner vs the Heat this season: 18.5, 5.0, 3.5, 1.5 TO, 5 FTA/gm

    Meanwhile D-Wade is averaging 24.5 on 54% against IND this year, but only put up 8 pts in his lone game against Turner and the Sixers this year.

    Lebron and Wade may dislike Lance more due to his antics, but Turner has been more effective against them this year while playing on a much worse team. It's not about annoying them or getting under their skin.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 02-26-2014 at 08:51 AM.

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  24. #65
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I don't think Lance is more athletic, and that is also what the numbers show from the combine. I will say as far as the 3 pt shot that maybe true, but their career 3 pt average is about the same with Turner like .002 higher. But both have a really good mid ranged game which they use effectively and both can get to the rim as well as draw defenders and find open outlet guys. I think both are above average defenders, and think the big difference between the two comes with age (2yrs).

    Basically I think they are fairly comparable, but I don't think it is easy to say Lance's potential is way higher than Turners.
    This. I'm not quite understanding the automatic belief that Lance's potential is way higher. Turner is only 25 years old himself and has been playing for a joke of a franchise since he was drafted. I don't see why Turner can't work on being a 3pt shooter any more than Lance can. He's not only already a better mid-range and (much better) FT shooter than Lance, but he's a more natural shooter from those areas as well. There's no reason to believe that with more work, he can become a better 3 pt shooter as well.

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  26. #66
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    I'm a huge fan of this Turner trade. The guy is a very good player who should help us out a lot. But Lance has been the second best player on this team for most of the season and is a huge reason that we have the number 1 seed. It's nice to have some insurance on Lance in Turner, but I think we should back it up a bit before we say we want Turner over Lance.


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  28. #67
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Owl you are one of my favorite posters, and the topic is an important one. But it is just too soon.

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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
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    Well one way is Herb Simon decides that it is worth going into Luxury Tax for this team.
    Someone needs to convince Herb that he's growing long in the tooth, and that the legacy of building what could be a multi-time NBA champion is worth the financial investment.

  31. #69
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
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    If we are 10 Million under, then add Lance at 10 million, we are now even. So adding Turner at 8 million would put us 8 million over, not 18 million.
    I think we could get Evan cheaper than 8 per, maybe something like 6 or 7 per year

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  33. #70

    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    If Turner goes 3-9 tomorrow people are going to want a do over on the trade. Let's wait to see him play some more.

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  35. #71
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Turner will never get under the skin of Wade and Lebron like Lance does...regardless of what team hes playing for
    Personally, I think this angle is almost meaningless. More fun for fans to talk about than anything.


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  36. #72
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    My best guess is that it will come down to whether in the end Lance is worth an extra 3-4 million dollars per season. But that is just a guess right now

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  38. #73
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    I can't believe this thread has already been started LOL

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  40. #74
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    If Turner goes 3-9 tomorrow people are going to want a do over on the trade. Let's wait to see him play some more.
    Yeah, wait for the honeymoon period to end. I'm not too excited to see what happens when Turner goes on a slump.

  41. #75
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    Default Re: Evan or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Personally, I think this angle is almost meaningless. More fun for fans to talk about than anything.


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