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Thread: Postgame vs Lakers

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Defensively, I guess I didn't see the flaws that some were seeing; he looked active and engaged to me. Sometimes I think when he's getting 'burned' he's a victim of the same thing as George Hill: Pressing up on people / chasing them over screens to funnel them to Roy and Ian, on purpose, and leaving some fans thinking they suck on D when they don't. But that's just me. I'm not saying he was great defensively, but I certainly wasn't cringing, either.
    I disagree. If it looked like he was just trying to funnel his guy, then that is more of a compliment to how well Ian and Roy rotate than Turner picking up on our defensive scheme. He was just getting beat, and not really putting up much of a fight. We still want our wing defenders to try and prevent the drive, and he wasn't doing that. He is just lucky Roy and Ian are good at what they do.

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    A few thoughts from me...

    1. Too early to be too high/low on Turner in any area. He'll have better defensive nights than that; he'll have worse offensive nights than that. What I do like, though, is that quite a few of the shots he was making...Granger couldn't make, or wasn't taking anymore. It's a new look. If he's efficient with it, I like it. If nothing else, it's going to make opponents go back to the tape a little bit on the second unit.

    2. Ian has had 5 or 6 pretty damn good games now, although I thought his first half was pretty bad on both ends. Consistency is the name of the game for Ian. I say it all the time: he has the skill set, he doesn't have the consistency. If he can develop the latter, the former should shine and elevate him to "good bench player" status.

    3. Scola's jump shot is just dead. RIP. Months now. I was intrigued by his play near the rim, though, which a lot of folks have argued should be his focus all along. He was crafty around the rim last night. One, he's trying really hard there because he knows he's not helping from midrange. Two, that is perhaps his more natural contribution anyway. Be interested to see if he can re-develop himself on this team a bit in that area. If not, Vogel HAS to go to Copeland. But I'm willing to give Scola a little more time if he can figure things out at the rim.

    4. Why can't CJ Watson play like that every night? That's a HUGE difference off the bench...

    5. Pacers did that killswitch thing again last night. It almost always happens on defense. Team plays lackluster, uninspired, passive defense for most of the game...and then decides to get pissed off and get their hands in there. Paul George led the charge there. Best hounding defense I've seen him play in quite some time, and you could tell he was doing it because he was pissed off. Don't get why this is the exception to the rule (for everyone) more often than not lately. This team should always be playing with an edge on defense. I get that an 82-game season wears on you, and you won't bring it every night. But this is the first time I remember them turning on the defensive jets in...a month? Months? Love to see it, but it's frustrating to know they're fully capable of doing this (and really, built to do this) and still play so far south of their capabilities here of late.

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  5. #53
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Hard to really judge this game except to say the lakers are awful. Coached awful, play awful, everything is just awful.

    I thought the pacers for 2 and a half quarters were not much better, they were sleep walking through the game, and then played a good 6 minutes to put the game away. Wow the Lakers are bad. no defense, terrible offense, no structure to their offense.


    I like Gasol's comments.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/basket...#axzz2uR2q6bOq

    Gasol wasn't buying the Lakers-initially-played-well story line.
    "Better teams take it easy in the first half and then when they see the game is kind of close or they're fooling around with the game, they step it up in the third," he said. "I've been on the other side of it and I've done it many times."


    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-26-2014 at 09:59 AM.

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  7. #54

    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    4. Why can't CJ Watson play like that every night? That's a HUGE difference off the bench...
    There's a reason he's a bench player.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I disagree. If it looked like he was just trying to funnel his guy, then that is more of a compliment to how well Ian and Roy rotate than Turner picking up on our defensive scheme. He was just getting beat, and not really putting up much of a fight. We still want our wing defenders to try and prevent the drive, and he wasn't doing that. He is just lucky Roy and Ian are good at what they do.
    I'm just not sure of that.


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  9. #56

    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    There's a reason he's a bench player.
    I know, I know, but the ask is so simple: play solid defense, hit open shots. He's not being asked to create, to carry the scoring load, to make insane passes. He's just asked to be solid. He should be able to do that more often.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    The most exciting thing about Turner's debut, was he came in and immediately tried to do exactly what we brought him in to do. When he first got in the game and was playing with the other four starters, he took a mostly deferential role and tried to help facilitate. When he was in with more bench players, he tried to take over. That's exactly what we had to be hoping for. Even if his shot hadn't been falling, just knowing that he was able and willing to play that role, is extremely encouraging. It's a major upgrade for this team considering what we had to give up.

    Can't ask for much more out of a guy who has been with the team for 5 days.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Ehhh...about as expected. Not very good. The effort was there, but his tendency to ball watch bit him once on a three. He's got a pretty slow first step which isn't ideal against quicker defenders. He wasn't dreadful by any means, but I don't really think he has the tools to be a great wing defender.
    He was, however, better than Danny IMO. He had a nice steal, and a couple nice instinctual double teams or drop downs on guys in traffic that created rushed shots or bad passes. There were a couple times he got beat, but overall I was pretty happy with it. I think by the end of the season he'll be a +defender. He's got good length, he's noticeably taller than Lance when they stand next to each other and he's got very long arms and hands, he will fit the system. I was honestly pretty pleased with what I saw on D. He has obviously not had extensive coaching on that side of the ball, but we have House Vogel to teach him the House words "Strength in Length"


    EDIT: As a couple others have mentioned, he got caught over pursuing a few times on the perimeter. This is mostly a coaching/scheme issue, Philly sells out for steal chances all the time. Evan will have to learn to trust in Roy and his teammates, if he does that I actually really liked what I saw. He's got a good sense of when to play help D, and as reported he's pretty damn good around screens and fighting through traffic on D. He's no Paul, but he's actually better at this specific part of defense than Lance is. If he stops biting hard for passes and learns to just stay home, I think he will be very good. I also think he's got the ability to both Wade in the post when he tries to go for those turnaround jumpers.

    Somebody pointed it out on twitter last night, but at one point Lance had a moment where he made the wrong switch on D, and Evan was the one who corrected him. Lance actually took the correction well, and they seemed to have a good on court vibe going with each other. Was really, really impressed with that pairing honestly. A couple sequences I loved from them, one was in the fourth when ET went one on one with his guy around half court, he made some nice moves, threw down a spin and a couple behind the leg moves and then tossed it to Lance. Lance then went one on one and did some nice dribbling moves before popping the J and hitting it. It was fun to see two guys with that kind of skill and creativity on the court together. Not many teams (if any) that have a pair of wings with the ball handling abilities of Evan and Lance.

    I also liked the play where Evan tried to throw the oop to Lance, it didn't connect, but if it had my head might have exploded. That is the kind of free flowing basketball we need from those two, it's not always going to work perfectly, but I think the more they get on the same page the more fun they are going to have playing together.


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    Last edited by Trader Joe; 02-26-2014 at 10:53 AM.

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  14. #59

    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    That IS the defensive scheme. Press you're man, force him to Roy.
    Ya I don't think our defensive scheme is complicated at all and where Turner got burned was on some spot up 3s where he was sagging off before the ball got to his man which is exactly what you are suppose to do in our system.

    Plus the lakers players are strong one on one dribble drive guys. Their stupid chuckers but they can still fill it up just like Nick Young did against Lebron a few weeks back.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Also, Evan's end of 3rd pass to CJ for the THREE J was a perfect encapsulation of how I think his game will change now that he's here. In Philly, Evan is absolutely taking that mid range jumper, but as we saw he has the skills and vision to make the very nice over the top jump pass there and I absolutely loved the way he confidently turned and started walking back towards the Pacers bench before CJ even took the shot. I know some would say they'd like to see him crash the boards there, but I thought showing that sort of confidence in your teammate (and knowing that a corner 3 is his strength) was pretty impressive. That was maybe my favorite ET play of the night and he had several I was really happy with.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Ehhh...about as expected. Not very good. The effort was there, but his tendency to ball watch bit him once on a three. He's got a pretty slow first step which isn't ideal against quicker defenders. He wasn't dreadful by any means, but I don't really think he has the tools to be a great wing defender.
    Great? Maybe not. Good? Yes. One thing he has to get used to is directing his man toward our rim defenders. I don't know if he had that luxury in Philly. It will take a while for him to learn the scheme.

    As far as differences in the second unit? I saw more movement. No one camping out at the three point line and just staying there. Energy is contagious.

  18. #62
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    I don't like what is Frank doing now with Scola and Copeland.

    I'm a big fan of Scola's old game but he has been struggling for quite some time. It's not like he offers us a supreme defensive presence so you are hard pressed to bench him. Quite the opposite.
    If you are determined to give Butler a chance, then do it for Copeland too. Am not talking for something definite too either. Just try it out a bit. Cope will offer some good spacing for the team and shooting wise, he can't do any worse than Sola right now.

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  20. #63
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Scola was pretty solid on the boards last night, but his jumper is def borked. I dunno if I can blame it fully on the elbow or not, but something is off. What was really disappointing is that Lance and Evan were setting him up perfectly on the pick and pop too all night. I think he probably left 4 makes out there last night that he would usually hit. And if you're going to run the pick and pop why not let Cope get that run? That being said Cope was terrible in his 6 minutes last night. Worst stint of the season for him. He was not locked in on either end and there was a play on a Pacers turnover where he could have gotten back and chose not to.

    I really think Turner is giving us a needed boost of energy. The guy hadn't won a game since JANUARY 29TH. He has to be over the moon to be here and I think the Pacers desperately needed that sort of boost. We had definitely gotten bored.

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  21. #64
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Also, Evan's end of 3rd pass to CJ for the THREE J was a perfect encapsulation of how I think his game will change now that he's here. In Philly, Evan is absolutely taking that mid range jumper, but as we saw he has the skills and vision to make the very nice over the top jump pass there and I absolutely loved the way he confidently turned and started walking back towards the Pacers bench before CJ even took the shot. I know some would say they'd like to see him crash the boards there, but I thought showing that sort of confidence in your teammate (and knowing that a corner 3 is his strength) was pretty impressive. That was maybe my favorite ET play of the night and he had several I was really happy with.
    I think he tried to go one on one and completely lossed his handle and balance and was about to jack up a terrible shot when he spotted CJ. It was a desperation pass in my opinion.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I appreciate that we have a superstar like Paul George on the team, but he just forces way too many ugly shots. The more he misses, the more he feels compelled to jack up an even worse shot next time down to make up for it. That iso at the end of the first half where everyone just stood around while PG dribbled a bunch of seconds off the clock and clanked one at the buzzer has just become way too predictable.
    You know, it is kinda odd. When he does the "run the clock out" bit at the end of a quarter, I always say to myself "That never works." - and I'm usually right.

    But if he gets the ball with just 5 or 6 seconds left in the quarter, he usually makes something good of it. He seems to be much better at making things happen on the move than he is with waiting on the clock - then trying to move. I'm sure giving the defenses time to set up doesn't help, but I also think we need to just forget about working the clock for the last shot. Just play like you would on any other possession.

    EDIT: One other thing. Our guys have to learn that a low pass to a 7'2" guy is asking for a problem.
    Last edited by Tom White; 02-26-2014 at 12:21 PM.

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  24. #66
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    ET is the most awkward looking / decent defender I've seen. He looks like hes getting beat bad, but usually recovers and contests the shot. His baseline jumper is really really good, it a difficult place on the floor for defenses to address. He handles the ball really well, sees the floor pretty well.

    I was going to compare DG and ET, but I don't see the point. I'll say this much, I don't see how ET can guard Lebron or Dwade for even a moment, which DG could maybe give you something on Lebron. ET doesn't stretch the floor from 3, but he does bring that baseline game that will open things up. Overall, great first game, he looks smart to pick things up that quick and he's unafraid which you can't have enough of those guys.

    He's a playmaker and maybe a glue guy for that 2nd unit, exactly what they needed. We'll know more next week when they play better teams.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think he tried to go one on one and completely lossed his handle and balance and was about to jack up a terrible shot when he spotted CJ. It was a desperation pass in my opinion.
    You've done lossed your mind.

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  27. #68
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think he tried to go one on one and completely lossed his handle and balance and was about to jack up a terrible shot when he spotted CJ. It was a desperation pass in my opinion.
    I totally disagree. That is a pretty put together passing motion for someone throwing a desperate pass.

    http://www.nba.com/video/games/pacer...ind-recap.nba/

    Play starts at like 1:30 in that video.

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  29. #69
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    ET was rarely out of control last night, and all of his shots seemed to come within the natural offensive flow. That pass to CJ was a split second decision due to the fact that Watson's defender came to double team at the last second.

    Outside of the Vogel weave, that was probably the best "end of the quarter" possession the Pacers have had all season.

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  31. #70
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    did yall see when Lance stole Scola's rebound and then ran into Scola and turned it over. Scola was more pissed than I'd seen him. Lance is getting on everybody's nerves stealing the rebounds. (That said, if its 50-50 bigs should let Lance have it so he can push it faster.)

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    I'm starting to believe Bynum IS here just to keep him away from Miami... :-(

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I totally disagree. That is a pretty put together passing motion for someone throwing a desperate pass.

    http://www.nba.com/video/games/pacer...ind-recap.nba/

    Play starts at like 1:30 in that video.
    Here's a more convenient video of that play (taken from the awesome nba.com stats page that has individual video of tons of stats during the games now): http://on.nba.com/1c6pZz8

    Looks pretty deliberate to me.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    did yall see when Lance stole Scola's rebound and then ran into Scola and turned it over. Scola was more pissed than I'd seen him. Lance is getting on everybody's nerves stealing the rebounds. (That said, if its 50-50 bigs should let Lance have it so he can push it faster.)
    Yeah, I did. I'm getting tired of it, too. I also noticed that after Scola got rebounds after that, he always looked to get the ball to Turner and then would only settle and give it to Lance if ET wasn't available.

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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by 31Since1990 View Post
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    I'm starting to believe Bynum IS here just to keep him away from Miami... :-(
    Give it 2-3 weeks. I think he'll be playing.

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  40. #75
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame vs Lakers

    Seems that ET's midrange game and driving to the basket absolutely will help against a team like Miami, making whomever chase him around screens, force switches and doubles and open the kick to our outside shooters or the picker on the pick n pop. Much like Rip Hamilton but with ET, his first choice is to get to the basket... Rip's was his midrange jumper.

    Scola's still pulling boards and playing defense, which indicates the confidence in Cope, who can obviously shoot, but needs to work on the other end of the court.

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