Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

    Offense:

    Hand Off (153 Possessions, 0.84 PPP (Points-Per-Possession), 46th):

    One of Turner's bread and butter plays starts with him throwing an entry pass into the high post, which is followed by a rub-off screen and hand off to Turner for a top of the key mid-range jumper. Opponents often go under the rub-off screen, which frees Turner up for an open mid-range jumper, where he is shooting 45% from on the season. Turner does a good job of quickly setting his feet on these plays, and usually gets off an uncontested jumper.

    Pick and Roll, as Ball Handler (188 Possessions, 0.84 PPP, 54th):


    Turner is a good ball handler, and does a good job of shedding his man on a pick and roll screen. After the screen, he is good at patiently weaving his way through traffic, and will often times find himself an open mid-range jumper. Despite his affinity for mid-range shots, Turner will drive into the paint when given a lane, and he does a good job of getting to the rim, where he finishes at nearly a 60% clip. Turner would rank higher in this category if not for his high turnover percentage of 18.1%. He will often over-dribble, which allows the defense to collapse on him and forces him into making bad passes that are easily intercepted.

    Isolation (131 Possessions, 0.78 PPP, 98th):

    While Turner is a good ball handler, he settles for too many mid-range jumpers in isolation situations, which are easily contested. While he does usually shoot these at a high percentage, his accuracy suffers when his defender has a chance to contest. When he chooses to do so Turner is capable of beating his defender to the rim, but he does not do this often enough, which is why he is shooting 36% from the field in isolation situations.

    Spot Up (153 Possessions, 0.90 PPP, 194th):


    Despite his poor overall 3PT shooting percentage, Turner actually shoots the three ball reasonably well when he has a chance to set his feet. In spot up situations, Turner is shooting 33% (26-78) from three point range. When given sufficient time and space (such as on a kick-out after the defense collapses on a drive), Turner can somewhat reliably knock down long range shots, especially so from the corners. When forced to move off the catch however, his 3PT percentage plummets.

    Transition (207 Possessions, 0.90 PPP, 212th):


    Because of his ball handling skills, Turner can easily beat defenders to the rim in transition situations, and is quite proficient at drawing fouls after beating his man. However, similar to his tendencies in isolation situations, he has a tendency to settle for short range pull up jumpers in transition, specifically of the fadeaway variety. Turner also tries to force some passes in transition, which leads to a higher than average turnover rate.

    Overall (1069 Possessions, 0.85 PPP, 285th):

    Pros:
    Turner is a very capable ball handler, and is adept at shedding his man on screens. When he puts his mind to it, he is easily capable of beating his man to the rim, where he finishes at a decent percentage (60%). He is a very good mid-range shooter (45%), and he is capable of creating his own shot in this space. Turner also is capable of reliably knocking down open 3PT shots from each corner.

    Cons: Turner is a bad three point shooter outside of the corners, and is even worse off the dribble or on the move. He settles for too many mid to short range jumpers (and sometimes even forces these shots against set defenses), when he is more than capable of getting to the rim and finishing. Turner is not a great passer, and will occasionally throw a pass he has no business attempting. He also sometimes overdribbles and allows defenses to collapse on him, and he tends to make poor decisions with the ball in these situations.

    Defense:

    Off-Screens (52 Possessions, 0.85 PPP, 52nd):

    Defensively, this is Turner at his best. He moves his feet well when navigating around screens, and usually makes good decisions when choosing to go under, over, or through the screen. He is quick to close out on his man after he gets through a screen, which allows him to easily contest shot attempts. He also rarely bites on pump fakes while he is closing out, which grants him time to regain his defensive position and forces opponents to play against a set defense.

    Isolation (60 Possessions, 0.87 PPP, 153rd):


    Turner is a slightly above average defender in isolation situations. He does a good job of shading his man towards his non-dominant ball hand, but his slow first step defensively often negates any advantage he gains from forcing his man into driving with his weak hand, and leaves him in a situation where he has to overplay his man in order to recover after getting beat off the dribble. This leaves Turner susceptible to step back or change of direction moves. Once again, Turner doesn't bite on pump fakes, which means he is rarely caught out of defensive position, and can therefore easily contest any jumpshots opponents take against him in isolation situations. Turner also has a strong base, which helps him prevent his man from backing him down in post-up isolation situations.

    Pick and Roll, Against Ball Handler (108 Possessions, 0.89 PPP, 179th):


    This is another area where Turner's slow first step defensively hurts him. While Turner does a good job positioning himself for the initial pick, he often gets hung up on the pick simply because he isn't quick enough to get around it at the same speed as his man does. He usually makes good decisions when choosing to go under or over the screen, but since he has trouble recovering when going over a screen due to his lack of footspeed, he will occasionally go under a screen that he should go over, which frees up his man for open jump shots.

    Spot Up (251 Possessions, 1.18 PPP, 297th):

    This category is Turner's bane defensively. Opponents are shooting a blazing 48% from 3PT land in spot up situations against Turner, and they are shooting it often (157 times). That's nearly 3 attempts per game, which means that Turner gives up on average 4.32 point per game from spot up three point attempts. Turner's main problem is that when opponents drive he often helps too far into the lane, which leaves his man wide open for a kick out and 3PT attempt. While Turner does try his best to close out, he often times has lost track of his man and is therefore too out of position to even get a hand is his mans face. Turner will also consistently ball watch while on defense, which results in him losing track of his man.

    Overall (544 Possessions, 1.04 PPP, 400th):

    Pros: Despite what his metrics may suggest, Turner is actually a sound individual defender. Turner has good instincts when defending against screens, and is generally good at getting around them despite his lack of quickness. He closes out well and rarely bites on ball fakes, which means he is rarely caught out of defensive position in 1-on-1 situations. Turner also has a strong base, which means he is difficult to back down, even for bigger and stronger players.

    Cons: Turner is not a good off ball defensive player. He frequently loses track of his man, whether it be from over helping off the ball or simply ball watching from across the court, which results in lots of open jumpers for his man. Turner has a slow first step defensively, which allows quicker players to easily get by him. Turner's slow first step also strongly impacts how he deals with screens. He often will try to go under a screen in order to take away driving lanes since he is not quick enough to go over a screen while still denying penetration, and this can free up his man for open jump shots after being screened for. Turner will also occasionally get hung up on screens since he is not quick enough to get around them.

  • #2
    Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

    well, crap.

    ...how's Lavoy Allen's numbers look?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

      Nice breakdown, thanks! I look forward to having another ballhandler with the second unit. Hopefully this mean's less "bad Lance" possessions

      Edit: And I wouldn't read too much into his defensive Synergy stats. Those are often highly dependent on who is around you, and it doesn't get much worse than playing on a team fighting for the number one draft pick, and Hawes as your primary rim protector!
      Last edited by lolwuttermelons; 02-23-2014, 08:33 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

        This is great, thanks.

        The slow first step isn't good, but the other big problems you write about (helping too much on defense and leaving the 3 open, shooting threes poorly off the dribble) are tendencies that can be fixed and not fatal flaws.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

          He closes out well and rarely bites on ball fakes

          great to hear. so turner will be guarding dwade and lance on LeBron when PG is resting or potential foul issue.

          dwade is the best in the biz at pump fake and drawing fouls (ie flopping)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

            It's tough for me to judge anything he's done defensively because they team he played for literally plays zero defense.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

              Originally posted by dal9 View Post
              well, crap.
              Stats are like that. Looking at them in a vacuum and that is what you get. :-)
              {o,o}
              |)__)
              -"-"-

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                That's an interesting look at the numbers. 33% from spot-up three isn't bad. I'm hoping all of his 3s come in that scenario.

                Some of these numbers are pretty concerning, especially defensively. Let's see how they hold up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                  evans role will be entirely different here. I don't think we can put much stock into a players production on another team.

                  take Gerald green, dj Augustine for instance. suffice to say, evans will not be the focal point of the offense. not have to guard the other teams best player on most nites either.

                  most potentially concerning to me is how lance and turner play together. both have similar games. It will be interesting to see how Coach Vogel handles the duo.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                    DONT SHOOT ME, are you really Doug Collins in disguise?

                    That is quite a thorough breakdown you wrote there, amazing actually.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                      http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingD...E*30**DVS*GE*2

                      Here's an interesting stat:

                      Of players who've played 30 or more games and drive to the basket 2 or more times per game, Lance Stephenson ranks #4 in FG% on drives at 59.5% on 217 total drives. That's a higher % than everyone not named Boris Diaw, LeBron James, and Manu Ginobili.

                      Evan Tuner ranks #27 at 48.8%. He has 323 total drives, 106 more than Lance. A drive is defined as "Any touch that starts at least 20 feet of the hoop and is dribbled within 10 feet of the hoop and excludes fast breaks. Measures the total number of drives as well as the points, assists and shooting percentages on drives to the basket."

                      Lance drives a lot, but Evan Turner drives almost 50% as much as Lance. That's a lot of drives! for a non-PG (3rd most behind LeBron and DeRozan).

                      He's also at 37.1% on catch and shoot (below average) while Lance is at 30.9%.
                      Last edited by imawhat; 02-23-2014, 11:51 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                        Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
                        most potentially concerning to me is how lance and turner play together. both have similar games. It will be interesting to see how Coach Vogel handles the duo.
                        I'm going to beat this dead horse into the ground: Vogel needs to stagger his rotations differently than he has this season with Turner coming on board, for the very reason you mentioned. He and Lance have similar games and both need the ball in their hands to be effective. Instead of Lance being the first sub out, they should take Hill out, put Watson in for the starters (that might get him some open looks and get him back on track--he's really been struggling) for a few minutes, and have Hill out there as the starter with the second unit. This way you have a veteran out there who can hit threes and lead by example in case Turner struggles handling the ball.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                          Great breakdown. Not terribly encouraging, but we'll hope that things get better when he's part of a functional unit instead of Philly's hot mess.
                          This space for rent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                            You can see lots of the good. If you take out his contested mid range Js, he becomes a very efficient offensive player. I expect him to feel less freedom here so he will pick his spots more carefully.

                            Defensively, Philly is a dumpster fire, I am glad the individual defending is his strong suit. He will fit in well. Also if he reads screens well he will fit in well with Vogel's fight through every screen philosophy. I'm actually encouraged assuming the write ups are thorough and accurate.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Evan Turner: By the Numbers Breakdown

                              Originally posted by cdash View Post
                              I'm going to beat this dead horse into the ground: Vogel needs to stagger his rotations differently than he has this season with Turner coming on board, for the very reason you mentioned. He and Lance have similar games and both need the ball in their hands to be effective. Instead of Lance being the first sub out, they should take Hill out, put Watson in for the starters (that might get him some open looks and get him back on track--he's really been struggling) for a few minutes, and have Hill out there as the starter with the second unit. This way you have a veteran out there who can hit threes and lead by example in case Turner struggles handling the ball.
                              Who's the second wing playing with the second unit? Or are you suggesting that Hill/Watson should play together more?

                              If they're playing three wings all of the wing minutes, one of the wings has to be the first sub out. Hill could come out early with them which would allow the Pacers to run a Hill/starter wing/Turner second unit, but one of the wings still has to be there.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X