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Thread: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

  1. #26
    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Jason Collins is not Jackie Robinson, let's nip that in the bud. The environments are in no way similar.
    Maybe I should have put this in bold text, you apparently didn't read it.

    (I'm not equating Jason Collins' situation with Jackie Robinson, just pointing out the flaw in your logic)
    The talent level of the two isn't close. The significance of it from a basketball/baseball standpoint isn't close. And yes the cultural environment is nowhere near as hostile today to gays than it was towards people of color in Jackie's day.

    But there IS a parallel here.

    In terms of a young person of color or young gay person seeing that people like them can succeed in pro sports and overcome adversity and discrimination, they are both moves in the same direction.

    I can almost guarantee you that there are numerous players in the Hall of Fame in all the major U.S. pro sports who were gay but never came out of the closet. If Collins' situation can gradually lead to another player here and there going public, and eventually get us to the point a few years down the road where it truly doesn't matter what a pro athlete's sexual orientation is, that will have been a positive thing. So yay.

    I don't think anyone can argue that racial integration of pro sports wasn't a good development for overall race relations in the country. I hope/feel that more of this type of thing will have a similar positive impact on LGBT persons' status in the sports community.

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  3. #27
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    The talent level of the two isn't close.
    Come on now, arguably, Jason Collins is better at basketball than Jackie Robinson would have been!

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    You're focusing too much on the individual player here, and the team's motivation. Who cares if Collins is a scrub? In fact who cares if it's a publicity move?
    I care because there are more talented players out there that don't have the same name recognition aren't getting a shot because a team wants to cash in on some good publicity especially with all the high expectations they had for the season only to be rather disappointing.

    Having this takes some of that heat away from them.

    But its a 10 day contract so in the end it will be a blink and you'll miss move. If he gets more than 10 days here I'll be surprised considering he's not that good. Its just that this whole thing screams politics to me rather than basketball talent.

  6. #29
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I care because there are more talented players out there that don't have the same name recognition aren't getting a shot because a team wants to cash in on some good publicity especially with all the high expectations they had for the season only to be rather disappointing.

    Having this takes some of that heat away from them.

    But its a 10 day contract so in the end it will be a blink and you'll miss move. If he gets more than 10 days here I'll be surprised considering he's not that good. Its just that this whole thing screams politics to me rather than basketball talent.
    Look at earlier in the thread...Dexter Pittman just got signed too...there aint a bunch of great talent out there that Collins is displacing.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Lou is better than Pittman and Collins and is still unsigned. Fez probably could fall into that category also.

  8. #31
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I care because there are more talented players out there that don't have the same name recognition aren't getting a shot because a team wants to cash in on some good publicity especially with all the high expectations they had for the season only to be rather disappointing.

    Having this takes some of that heat away from them.
    BS. Brooklyn only had 13 players on their roster before this. They still have a roster spot open after the Collins signing. At least that's according to their listed roster on the team site. http://www.nba.com/nets/roster

    Not a single player in the league is losing out on a job due to this, so let's stop with the crocodile tears over the poor players who suddenly are missing out on 10-day contracts, or to turn this into some kind of affirmative-action argument.

    Seriously it's really odd that this seems to be bothering you so much.
    Last edited by rabid; 02-23-2014 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    If you don't want the thread to go there I get it, but is it? I feel like the media'll make a big thing of it but no one actually cares. Same deal with the Michael Sam story, he said he hasn't fielded a single question about it from the teams interviewing him at the combine. It's just all media sensationalism.
    You do realize that players were asked about their sexual preference at last year's combine, right? Sam simply answered it preemptively.

    Of course no team was going to ask him about it at the combine after it already became national news. Any team that did would get killed in the media

    If nobody truly "cared," it wouldn't have taken a century for an active pro male athlete to come out of the closet.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-23-2014 at 04:57 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I care because there are more talented players out there that don't have the same name recognition aren't getting a shot because a team wants to cash in on some good publicity especially with all the high expectations they had for the season only to be rather disappointing.

    Having this takes some of that heat away from them.

    But its a 10 day contract so in the end it will be a blink and you'll miss move. If he gets more than 10 days here I'll be surprised considering he's not that good. Its just that this whole thing screams politics to me rather than basketball talent.
    He's a 12 year vet. Obviously he's on his last legs, but the fact remains he's still 7 feet tall with experience and knows how to play the game.

    Saying "well if he lasts longer than 10 days then he obviously didn't earn it" it flat out ridiculous. It's like you're hoping that happens so you can go on a rant to justify your prejudices against this move.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  13. #34
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Also, my understanding is that Glenn Burke was the first openly gay sportsperson.

  14. #35
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    No, Collins isn't (and probably never was) a very good basketball player. And that's kind of the point, that a fringe NBA everyman who happens to have a different sexual orientation can have a shot at a 10-day contract like every other 7 footer out there.

    Anyway, I'm choosing to be encouraged by all the "so what?" responses. Society must truly be progressing, to the point that the first openly gay NBA player isn't regarded as news

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Depends what you're looking for. He didn't last 12 years in the nba because he was totally incompetent. He can defend the post pretty well and he can grab defensive rebounds, both things Brooklyn badly needs.

    He's terrible at everything else, but they aren't looking for anything else.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  16. #37
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Eventually, no one will care. We're not there yet, but we're close. And that's great.
    I suppose somebody must care. Really, more than anything it's odd that anyone cares now. Back in the late 1980's this would be huge news. In the 1990's it would be big news. But since 2000, I don't think so.

    It wasn't big news when John Amaechi jumped out of the closet. Only difference is he was recently retired. Seriously, this is odd particularly since we've all known Jason Collins is gay. That by itself is quite old news.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    Come on now, arguably, Jason Collins is better at basketball than Jackie Robinson would have been!
    Actually that probably isn't true basketball was one of Jackie's best sports. He was better at basketball than baseball according to most books I have read on him. He actually played some pro basketball. I bet Jackie was a better player than Collins. The Harlem Rens(best team of his era) wanted him so did the Trotters
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 02-23-2014 at 05:45 PM.

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Well, it's a sign of the normalization of homosexuality within mainstream culture and, more importantly, a segment of mainstream culture generally hostile toward homosexuality. It's a big deal.
    What segment of society are you saying is "generally hostile toward homosexuality"? NBA basketball players?

    If so, I suspect your reaction is more based on the fact NBA basketball players are in front of a mic. That is, NBA basketball players are no different than your garden variety person on this topic.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    I wonder if the NBA will retire his #35 league wide like baseball did with Jackie Robinson's 42? Someday down the line, Kevin Durant might be the last player grandfathered in with the #35, just like Mariano Rivera was with Jackie Robinson's #42.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Why is this news worthy? So what he's gay, why is homosexuality more of a sin than fornication, adultery, lying, stealing, using profane language, lusting? Seriously our world is so messed up. WE ARE ALL SINNERS. We should not as GOD's children pass judgement on another person.

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    7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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  23. #42

    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Wait, he gets signed and immediately thrust into the starting lineup?
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

  24. #43

    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Warriors game last night reinforced how bad the Nets interior D is when KG isn't in. Collins is a bad offensive players, but has consistently been one of the best paint protectors in the league. Good signing if he's healthy/in shape

  25. #44

    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    He's a 12 year vet. Obviously he's on his last legs, but the fact remains he's still 7 feet tall with experience and knows how to play the game.

    Saying "well if he lasts longer than 10 days then he obviously didn't earn it" it flat out ridiculous. It's like you're hoping that happens so you can go on a rant to justify your prejudices against this move.


    What exactly am I saying that's prejudiced here? I'm calling this out for what it is a blatant PR stunt I mean before he came out Jason Collins couldn't really buy his way into the league the past couple of seasons. Now because he came out him being signed is newsworthy even though he's not that great a player to begin with.

    Just comes across as politics rather than basketball talent here. Between this and the NFL cracking down on the N-word(even though they have a team called the Redskins) I feel like sports isn't really sports anymore.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Don't think I've ever seen a topic with more people making a point to tell you how much they "don't care"....

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    What exactly am I saying that's prejudiced here? I'm calling this out for what it is a blatant PR stunt I mean before he came out Jason Collins couldn't really buy his way into the league the past couple of seasons. Now because he came out him being signed is newsworthy even though he's not that great a player to begin with.

    Just comes across as politics rather than basketball talent here. Between this and the NFL cracking down on the N-word(even though they have a team called the Redskins) I feel like sports isn't really sports anymore.
    There isn't really any reason to believe that this was a "political" move as opposed to a talent move. They had a serious need and they filled it.

    Sports has always had and will continue to have the ability to provide a greater social commentary. I don't get what your complaint is there, as there have always been stories about sports breaking down barriers, creating change, etc.

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  31. #47
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    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    How is he going to sign today and start? Doesn't Kidd have some plays he wants him to learn?
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  32. #48

    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Doesn't Kidd have some plays
    No.

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  34. #49

    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    There isn't really any reason to believe that this was a "political" move as opposed to a talent move. They had a serious need and they filled it.

    Sports has always had and will continue to have the ability to provide a greater social commentary. I don't get what your complaint is there, as there have always been stories about sports breaking down barriers, creating change, etc.

    Probably because this guy has been out of commission for the past couple of years and now he comes out and he gets signed. I doubt he would've otherwise if it was based on basketball skill alone.


    Yes sports breakdown barriers and provided social commentary but that's usually the secondary story because the players/teams involved were too talented to be ignored and primarily judged on that. I feel in this case its the reverse he's only getting recognition more for his sexual orientation and not for his basketball talent.

    Real progress will be made when him or any player being openly gay isn't the main storyline.

    Its like when Tony Dungy was the first black coach to win the SB that was a big storyline but when Mike Tomlin did that with the Steelers he was just like any other coach.

    That to me was progress.

  35. #50

    Default Re: Jason Collins about to sign 10 day contract with Nets expected to start tonight vs Lakers

    Good for Collins, good for the NBA, good for sports. Only downside is how I have to hear people tell me aggressively how they don't care that there's a gay NBA player.

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