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Thread: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Defense was terrible in the 2nd half. We gave up 29 & 30! What game did you all watch?
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    I'm going to keep an eye on PGs fta. He's looked different and more purposeful drawing contact, and has been incorporating fakes followed by the blowby, something he rarely did pre asb. He's also going through defenders and forcing officials to make the call rather than just throwimg up an awkward layup and expecting a ref to bail him out.

    I have a theory that he got some pointers from the other stars during asb about how to force the issue and draw contact and get to the line. He was clearly frustrated about not getting calls 2 weeks ago, and he's pretty popular with other players... either way he's come back from asb getting to the line at a great rate, and he's legitimately drawn the fouls by forcing the defenders hand. It's something to keep an eye on. PG should be able to get to the line 8 times per night, he had a wirey frame that shows any contact he draws, abit like Kevin Martin or Durant. If this becomes a trend it will be huge for PGs consistency, efficiency and output, which of course benefits the team too. It's how PG and other stars can be productive even when they are ice cold, and I think PG realizes that now, given how much his shot wasn't falling the 7 games prior to ASB.
    Hope so.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I doubt it. Expect ET to replace DG and Bynum to replace Ian, but that is about it. If Bynum plays well, he will get more minutes than Ian, but that's about it. The time for experimentation is past, I think.
    I still think Evan will replace Lance. Lance will play less minutes a game and be backed up by Evan. It's dangerous to have Lance playing with starters AND BENCH. Higher risk of injury, being gassed at playoff time, and a tired Lance is a less focused Lance.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Defense was terrible in the 2nd half. We gave up 29 & 30! What game did you all watch?
    A Pacers road win over a team that was going to give them their best shot in front of a solid crowd, that despite the very sizeable Pacer fan presence, got them energized in the second half?
    Last edited by Sandman21; 02-23-2014 at 02:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I doubt it. Expect ET to replace DG and Bynum to replace Ian, but that is about it. If Bynum plays well, he will get more minutes than Ian, but that's about it. The time for experimentation is past, I think.
    I expect we will see more of Butler. A shooters skill set is needed with the bench.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I expect we will see more of Butler. A shooters skill set is needed with the bench.
    I'd rather see more of Copeland than Rasual. For starters.......we're paying Cope twice as much money.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    It's dangerous to have Lance playing with starters AND BENCH. Higher risk of injury, being gassed at playoff time, and a tired Lance is a less focused Lance.
    How is that "dangerous?" Lance is playing 35 minutes per game, less than PG. He gets taken out much earlier in the 1st and 4th quarters than the other starters, then gets put back in to play with the bench. The younger guys are generally the ones with more stamina and are the ones who can handle the bigger minutes. Lance is 23, his minutes are fine

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I'd rather see more of Copeland than Rasual. For starters.......we're paying Cope twice as much money.
    How much you're paying the guy is a front office issue, not a coaching issue. It's not up to the coach to care about who is getting paid more to sit on the bench. Vogel will play whomever he feels will help us win games.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    How much you're paying the guy is a front office issue, not a coaching issue. It's not up to the coach to care about who is getting paid more to sit on the bench. Vogel will play whomever he feels will help us win games.
    Exactly, you never play a player based on their salary. With Copeland that it goes beyond that to just the fact that he is a PF not a SF. He has enough trouble guarding PFs, he won't be able to guard a SF. He doesn't have the handles to do anything but be a spot up shooting at the SF position. At the PF position you maximize his skills cause it is the position he guards the best, and it is the position where he is capable of taking defenders off the dribble. He is the quintessential stretch 4. Add to it Rasual shoots the 3 better than Copeland, I see no reason why you want him to play SF over Butler.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I expect we will see more of Butler. A shooters skill set is needed with the bench.
    You may be right, but I don't expect that. I expect the 3 man wing rotation to be the norm. Butler, Copeland et al will be situational as need, but no more than that.

    Segue: Does anyone think LaVoy has a chance to be T-bird's Player X? He's listed as a P/C with some offensive skills.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Exactly, you never play a player based on their salary. With Copeland that it goes beyond that to just the fact that he is a PF not a SF. He has enough trouble guarding PFs, he won't be able to guard a SF. He doesn't have the handles to do anything but be a spot up shooting at the SF position. At the PF position you maximize his skills cause it is the position he guards the best, and it is the position where he is capable of taking defenders off the dribble. He is the quintessential stretch 4. Add to it Rasual shoots the 3 better than Copeland, I see no reason why you want him to play SF over Butler.

    Copeland is younger though. And is capable of getting hot and scoring in bunches. Guy just needs a chance. Also I think he can guard bench 3's. He guarded Melo well way back in the earlier parts of the season on one possession. He wasn't in the game very long though. Like I said, give the guy 5 games to prove himself at backup 3 and watch his stock rise.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    You may be right, but I don't expect that. I expect the 3 man wing rotation to be the norm. Butler, Copeland et al will be situational as need, but no more than that.

    Segue: Does anyone think LaVoy has a chance to be T-bird's Player X? He's listed as a P/C with some offensive skills.


    Sure. I have watched the few clips of LaVoy on youtube I can find. Guy already looks better than Scola currently. I'd play him at backup PF for the next few games to see what he can do. He has Scola range on his jumper, and comes off screens with catch and shoot similar to a guard. He also has a nice low post game with better, less sloppier moves than Scola. He is a better defender too. Can block shots and crash the boards. Some people say he's not a terrific leaper on his shot, but dude is 6'10 almost. He doesn't need to jump Jamal Crawford style unless he's shooting over someone 7'0 or taller. He gets off the ground just fine for his size and position.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    What a boring game to watch and play in. These games are just as difficult to win as games vs Miami at times.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I still think Evan will replace Lance. Lance will play less minutes a game and be backed up by Evan. It's dangerous to have Lance playing with starters AND BENCH. Higher risk of injury, being gassed at playoff time, and a tired Lance is a less focused Lance.
    I don't want Lance playing with the second unit very much because he calls his own number too often. IMO we'd be better off having GH play more minutes then Lance and pick up most of those minutes with the second unit while giving Turner a few minutes with the starters. Lance needs to have his minutes reduced not because he can't handle then minutes but because he's a net negative with the second unit when he becomes the #1 scoring option. I'd like to see Lance player closer to 30 minutes, Turner 32 and Paul 34 on average.
    What I think will happen is that Vogel will stick with the exact same rotations almost down to the second and Turner will look like a bad pickup because he won't be used to his strengths just like Granger was.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I don't want Lance playing with the second unit very much because he calls his own number too often. IMO we'd be better off having GH play more minutes then Lance and pick up most of those minutes with the second unit while giving Turner a few minutes with the starters. Lance needs to have his minutes reduced not because he can't handle then minutes but because he's a net negative with the second unit when he becomes the #1 scoring option. I'd like to see Lance player closer to 30 minutes, Turner 32 and Paul 34 on average.
    What I think will happen is that Vogel will stick with the exact same rotations almost down to the second and Turner will look like a bad pickup because he won't be used to his strengths just like Granger was.
    No coach in the league besides pop maybe would play PG 34 mpg. He's already playing almost 2 minutes less than last year, he plays the fewest mpg already of any superstar wing, and I can't think of any big star 23 year old that would be in favor of playing so few mpg unless the team is just ending games before the 4th quarter consistently. We don't really over play any of our guys PG is barely top 20 and after that noones mpg are out of place relative to their age, role and motor imo.
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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I don't want Lance playing with the second unit very much because he calls his own number too often. IMO we'd be better off having GH play more minutes then Lance and pick up most of those minutes with the second unit while giving Turner a few minutes with the starters. Lance needs to have his minutes reduced not because he can't handle then minutes but because he's a net negative with the second unit when he becomes the #1 scoring option. I'd like to see Lance player closer to 30 minutes, Turner 32 and Paul 34 on average.
    What I think will happen is that Vogel will stick with the exact same rotations almost down to the second and Turner will look like a bad pickup because he won't be used to his strengths just like Granger was.
    You aren't reducing Lance's time with the 2nd unit by taking minutes away from him and giving them to Turner. Granger was already playing every minute the second unit plays. Turner cannot take Lance's minutes with that unit because he'll already be on the court. All those extra minutes Turner would be getting would be solely time with the starters.

    The only ways to get Lance off the second unit is to either use a fourth wing, or switch Lance/PG's roles where PG is the one who comes out early in the 1st and 3rd quarters and then plays with the second unit. I don't see them putting PG in that role because the Pacers want him to be the elite defender playing against the opponent's best option as much as possible. A fourth wing is possible, but that's not giving the extra minutes to Turner but to somebody else.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Defense was terrible in the 2nd half. We gave up 29 & 30! What game did you all watch?
    Sometimes (but not too often) the defense can be good and the offense can just hit some really tough shots. Generally I think that is what happened in the second half. I thought our defense was pretty good, but they were hitting long range threes and some other really tough shots. That happens sometimes

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    You aren't reducing Lance's time with the 2nd unit by taking minutes away from him and giving them to Turner. Granger was already playing every minute the second unit plays. Turner cannot take Lance's minutes with that unit because he'll already be on the court. All those extra minutes Turner would be getting would be solely time with the starters.

    The only ways to get Lance off the second unit is to either use a fourth wing, or switch Lance/PG's roles where PG is the one who comes out early in the 1st and 3rd quarters and then plays with the second unit. I don't see them putting PG in that role because the Pacers want him to be the elite defender playing against the opponent's best option as much as possible. A fourth wing is possible, but that's not giving the extra minutes to Turner but to somebody else.
    I vote for 4th wing.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    What I think will happen is that Vogel will stick with the exact same rotations almost down to the second and Turner will look like a bad pickup because he won't be used to his strengths just like Granger was.
    I'm confused with this statement. What strengths of Granger wasn't being utilized?

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Mrs. RWB and I made the trip up and had a great time. Absolutely a good pick for a close away game if someone has been thinking of making an away game. Only gripe is if you hang around to do some shopping around greater Chicago it seems there are toll booths every couple of miles.

    Now weird observations...As confirmed elsewhere the Bradley Center is pretty damn ugly and I think was shocked to see so many Pacer fans in their house. Milwaukee was damn cold and standing out in the wind was no fun waiting on their slow @ss lines. Maybe just me but it seemed the Bradely security folks were giving the Area55/G2 folks a hard time getting in and enjoying it.

    The Mrs. and I were sitting behind the backboard on the floor in DD right next to the entrance. For those who know my wife she loves to talk to people and this was no exception. She talked all night to various staff people during breaks in the game and some things she learned. The attendance maybe listed higher on paper but they're averaging aournd 5,000 per game. There is talk among the staff unless Milwaukee agrees to builds a new arena soon they'll move probably in 2016.

    Bingo/Bango (?) the mascot needs to go back to mascot school or take some personal lessons from Boomer on having some fun. Just didn't seem he was that entertaining but we did learn the little jr. mascots are his sons.

    The Mrs. slapped hands with Coolio and said he doesn't do dishes (as in soft hands, no hard labor).

    There was a paper attached to our seats 'You've won, take to Bucks HQ for your prize'. Kind of neat as I stood in-line wearing my #1 Pacer jersey surrounded by Buck fans signing up for season ticket information. We got a Bucks bottle opener. I would have given it to a Bucks fan but the Mrs. wanted to keep it for memory sake.

    The best part of the game for us while Area55/G2 was giving them fits above the Mrs. and I were giving them big grief on free throws. I have a really good/loud boo and even had Zsa Pachula (sp?) looking over to see who was booing him in their own place. Also from just the section over you could see former PD poster Bill Bradley giving the Bucks hell.

    Final thought... I do feel for the Bucks fans and after hearing what their staff said I believe they're in trouble. On the other hand for this particular game great job by Area55/G2 as you put the Bucks Squad6 to shame. Kudos to the rest of Pacer nation for taking over the Bradley Center. And Milwaukee for the love of God please turn that wind down...brrrrr.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Mrs. RWB and I made the trip up and had a great time. Absolutely a good pick for a close away game if someone has been thinking of making an away game. Only gripe is if you hang around to do some shopping around greater Chicago it seems there are toll booths every couple of miles.

    Now weird observations...As confirmed elsewhere the Bradley Center is pretty damn ugly and I think was shocked to see so many Pacer fans in their house. Milwaukee was damn cold and standing out in the wind was no fun waiting on their slow @ss lines. Maybe just me but it seemed the Bradely security folks were giving the Area55/G2 folks a hard time getting in and enjoying it.

    The Mrs. and I were sitting behind the backboard on the floor in DD right next to the entrance. For those who know my wife she loves to talk to people and this was no exception. She talked all night to various staff people during breaks in the game and some things she learned. The attendance maybe listed higher on paper but they're averaging aournd 5,000 per game. There is talk among the staff unless Milwaukee agrees to builds a new arena soon they'll move probably in 2016.

    Bingo/Bango (?) the mascot needs to go back to mascot school or take some personal lessons from Boomer on having some fun. Just didn't seem he was that entertaining but we did learn the little jr. mascots are his sons.

    The Mrs. slapped hands with Coolio and said he doesn't do dishes (as in soft hands, no hard labor).

    There was a paper attached to our seats 'You've won, take to Bucks HQ for your prize'. Kind of neat as I stood in-line wearing my #1 Pacer jersey surrounded by Buck fans signing up for season ticket information. We got a Bucks bottle opener. I would have given it to a Bucks fan but the Mrs. wanted to keep it for memory sake.

    The best part of the game for us while Area55/G2 was giving them fits above the Mrs. and I were giving them big grief on free throws. I have a really good/loud boo and even had Zsa Pachula (sp?) looking over to see who was booing him in their own place. Also from just the section over you could see former PD poster Bill Bradley giving the Bucks hell.

    Final thought... I do feel for the Bucks fans and after hearing what their staff said I believe they're in trouble. On the other hand for this particular game great job by Area55/G2 as you put the Bucks Squad6 to shame. Kudos to the rest of Pacer nation for taking over the Bradley Center. And Milwaukee for the love of God please turn that wind down...brrrrr.
    Y'all shoulda said hi (unless you were among the score of Pacer fans that visited the Old German Beer Hall while we were there and I just dont remember now )

    And about security giving A55 and G2ers a hard time, it wasn't just you who had that opinion. I really wasn't impressed by how security ran up to Superfan wanting to get pictures and then telling him he couldnt wear the getup inside (amongst other things). Couple that with the Bucks twitter calling fans bandwagoners and I really wasn't impressed by how Milwaukee runs things in their dump that was built on a dump (literally). Makes me even more glad for the hard work that the Pacers put forward to their guests.
    Last edited by Sandman21; 02-24-2014 at 11:41 AM.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by pogi View Post
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    I'm confused with this statement. What strengths of Granger wasn't being utilized?
    As simple as not getting him the ball when he was open. You can quote % all you want but if you want a scorer to have an impact off the bench you get him the shot attempts. Teaming Granger with Lance most of the time was a bad combination. Lance simply wouldn't pass him the ball. If we play Lance with Turner in the same manner, I expect the same results from Turner. We'll see in the next 10 games or so if it's the player or the system, or there is a thin chance that Vogel might change his rotations.

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Y'all shoulda said hi (unless you were among the score of Pacer fans that visited the Old German Beer Hall while we were there and I just dont remember now )

    And about security giving A55 and G2ers a hard time, it wasn't just you who had that opinion. I really wasn't impressed by how security ran up to Superfan wanting to get pictures and then telling him he couldnt wear the getup inside (amongst other things). Couple that with the Bucks twitter calling fans bandwagoners and I really wasn't impressed by how Milwaukee runs things in their dump that was built on a dump (literally). Makes me even more glad for the hard work that the Pacers put forward to their guests.
    We were going to say hi but were a little late getting up your way. Did make it eventually but everyone was pretty much gone. Did holler out to Naptown Seth who was still there.

    We probably saw each other and didn't realize it anyway. We were in line watching the security folks giving superfan a hard time and what was silly I could hear a couple of them discussing 'do we make the guy wearing the fireman's hat take it off' and you could tell it was more out of spite than worried about hurting someone.

    The easiest way to pick us out is my wife. Simply we're in our 50s but wife looks younger for her age, has blonde hair, and she likes to talk. If you dvr'd the game look for the blonde lady standing behind the (Pacer's side) backboard after big plays (blocks/3s) and that's her.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Hell, we probably DID talk in line and just didn't realize it. We were right behind Superfan in line initially before they pulled him out and only a few people behind one of the Firemen Pacer (the other one got his through security somehow, another reason I wasn't impressed with the Bucks experience). If you heard a guy saying that Indiana had pulled a "Chicago" on Milwaukee, that was probably me.

    I hate to say it, but if that is how the Bucks are going to treat visitors who made the trip and contributed money to the local economy that otherwise wouldn't have been spent there, maybe Milwaukee should tell them to take a hike when they come wanting the city to build them a new arena that presumably will not be on top of a dump.

    I called into Eddie White afterwords and after I mentioned being on the ground in Milwaukee, I had to correct him in that it wasn't just Area55 and G2 that killed it up there, it was the entire contingent of blue and gold fans in the house that had killed it!
    Last edited by Sandman21; 02-24-2014 at 12:29 PM.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Post-Game Thread: Pacers beat Bucks

    Interesting that they're only drawing ~5k per game. Even the Pacers darkest days were better than that. Their dream scenario would probably be to land the #1 and set the wheels in motion for a move to Seattle.

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