Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...-missing-piece

    The Indiana Pacers converted a buzzer-beater at the trade deadline, but did it put them over the top?

    That's the biggest question coming out of the NBA's sleepy trade deadline that wrapped up Thursday. The Pacers have a two-game cushion on the Miami Heat for the East's top seed, and they picked up former No. 2 pick Evan Turner and reserve big man Lavoy Allen for Danny Granger's expiring contract and a future second-round pick to aid their cause.

    But is Turner the ringer who gets them past the Heat?

    It all comes down to Indiana's player development staff -- an operation that has the league's envy by repeatedly spinning straw into gold.

    Like the Oklahoma City Thunder, the small-market Pacers can hang with the big boys of the NBA because of their ability to cultivate young talent and turn potential into reality. It's a testament to their built-from-within grooming that Turner now becomes the first player on Indiana's current roster who has been picked inside the top 10 of the draft. Roy Hibbert, Paul George, David West, Lance Stephenson and George Hill -- all were picked 10th or later.

    Can Evan Turner become the piece that gets Indiana past Miami in the playoffs?
    But Turner represents a new test for the homemade Pacers: the reclamation project. This is about getting a seat at the table with San Antonio and Miami, who have routinely rejuvenated players' careers. If Turner is going to put the Pacers over the edge, they have a lot of work to do.

    Yes, Turner's averaging 17.4 points, 6.0 rebounds, 3.7 assists per game, which may seem to signal that he's enjoying a career year. But don't pay too much attention to Turner's traditional stats. In reality, he's an inefficient, pound-the-rock scorer who lives in the midrange and coughs up the ball too often. His PER stands at 13.3, nestling somewhere between replacement level and league average.

    Turner can thank the Sixers' helter-skelter offense for much of his inflated statistics. The Sixers average 102.5 possessions per game, which is 6.7 percent higher than your typical NBA team. If we adjust Turner's numbers for pace, his statistical profile doesn't look nearly as impressive. His lukewarm PER is a far more accurate portrayal of Turner's abilities to date.

    But Turner won't be asked to be the Pacers' horse and that may spur more growth for the 25-year-old. Turner saw his usage rate bump to a career-high 24.2 percent this season and the flood of shots propelled his scoring average to new heights. But his lukewarm efficiency never warranted all those shots. In Indiana, Turner won't have to bear that burden anymore. He'll likely come off the bench and anchor Indiana's second unit, where he can stay in his lane and inject some playmaking where Granger could not.

    Turning someone who has been labeled a massive bust into a reliable championship cog won't happen overnight. The key is whether Indiana's staff can get Turner to take better care of the ball (3.0 turnovers per 36 minutes). Turnovers provide the oxygen for the Heat's open-court attack, making this particular area of improvement critical for Turner's success. In Philadelphia, Turner had a tendency to force drives and end up at a dead end with nowhere to go.

    For a Pacers team that already has issues taking care of the ball (23rd in team turnover rate), coach Frank Vogel should make it a priority to make things easier for Turner and not make him have to do much heavy lifting. The Pacers can pull this off if he shares minutes with Hill, Stephenson and George, but not if he's left out to dry as he often found himself in Philadelphia.

    We'll see how much Hibbert can cover up Turner's mistakes on the other end. This is the added benefit of Vogel's defensive system that relies on Hibbert to function as both the plug and the eraser. According to Synergy video tracking, Turner had a big hand in the Sixers' horrendous defense as he ranked as the single-worst defender on a per-possession basis among 87 players with at least 500 plays defended. He's particularly lazy on closeouts, but Hibbert should help there as Turner knows he can glue himself to his man, knowing he has a safety net in Hibbert. Again, it's all about the system.

    At the end of the day, the Pacers' last-minute trade is more about trusting their developmental staff and organizational principles than it is about trusting Turner. Can Vogel and his staff convince Turner to play selfless, disciplined basketball in the midst of a contract year?

    From what we can tell from Turner's track record, the odds are against them. But time and time again, Indiana has proved that the organization's golden track record is what matters most.

  • #2
    Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

    Good read. Turner will drive you mad at times. I know when I watched him a lot(his rookie and 2nd year)he made so many terrible decisions. He takes so many bad shots, and bad basketball plays. It will be interesting to see if we can break him of these habits. I don't know who said he was a smart player(I read it earlier), but from everything I know about him, and all the tape I have watched he is far from a good decision maker.


    I did watch him play a few times this season. I thought he was getting to the hole a lot more. He was still taking hard shots though. Hard to take a lot from watching that Philly team a bunch of hot garbage. I hope teh personal around him will help him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

      Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
      Hard to take a lot from watching that Philly team a bunch of hot garbage.
      This is the main thing. He was an inefficient first option on one of the worst teams in the league. Nobody knows how he will do in a 20 minute per game situation that he has never been in before. It would be remarkable if this move somehow made our offense worse though.
      You Got The Tony!!!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

        So, what Turner appears to be is TJ Ford without the spinal stenosis or quick explosiveness on offense, while being remarkably similar on defense?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

          Originally posted by AesopRockOn View Post
          Nobody knows how he will do in a 20 minute per game situation that he has never been in before.
          Wasn't this essentially how Doug Collins used him in his second season?
          This is the darkest timeline.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

            What I hope is that Vogel doesn't force him to take shots that he's not good at taking….specifically 3pt shots.

            If his offensive game is mainly centered around a mid-range game…or whatever his offensive strengths are…I hope that we take advantage of that.

            As for his turnovers……I really hope that we minimize the chances for him to turn the ball over. Turnovers are the Pacers achilles heel…..and I don't want to add to it…I want to minimize it to the best of our ability.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

              Originally posted by AesopRockOn View Post
              This is the main thing. He was an inefficient first option on one of the worst teams in the league. Nobody knows how he will do in a 20 minute per game situation that he has never been in before. It would be remarkable if this move somehow made our offense worse though.
              Here's my devil's advocate reply to this type of response: Evan Turner has been known to be a prickly teammate in the past. He wants high usage. He wants numbers. The guy is playing for a contract. My fear is that he is going to come in the game, knowing he only has about 20 minutes to get stats up, and become ball dominant and try to "get his". You already see this to a certain extent with Lance, except Lance is a plus defender. Turner's defense worries me too. He will most likely be playing with the second unit, so Roy isn't going to be there covering his *** when his matador defense lets his defender fly right by him (I actually think Turner would be better suited at the 3 spot, personally). Ian does a decent job of protecting the rim, certainly better than anyone on Philadelphia, so that will help. Bynum's one plus this year is that opponents are shooting something like 28% around the rim when he is in the game, so even when Bynum comes back, again, that should help. But this:
              He's particularly lazy on closeouts
              ain't gonna fly. Part of why we are such a strong defense is that we close out on three point shooters better than anyone in the league. Turner is going to need some coaching. I trust our staff to be able to do it, but I do have my worries about Evan Turner.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                Originally posted by cdash View Post
                ain't gonna fly. Part of why we are such a strong defense is that we close out on three point shooters better than anyone in the league. Turner is going to need some coaching. I trust our staff to be able to do it, but I do have my worries about Evan Turner.
                That's what scares me the most. Lance doesn't look like he's getting any coaching right now and if Turner is similar to Lance, I see a bad combination ready to happen. We need Lance to be almost pulled from the second unit anyway.
                The past 15 games our interior D has been as good as ever but our perimeter D has sucked. Paul has gone from elite to inconsistent and Lance has looked terrible on D. This would be a good time for Vogel to reemphasis our plan for defending the 3.
                Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                  Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                  That's what scares me the most. Lance doesn't look like he's getting any coaching right now and if Turner is similar to Lance, I see a bad combination ready to happen. We need Lance to be almost pulled from the second unit anyway.
                  The past 15 games our interior D has been as good as ever but our perimeter D has sucked. Paul has gone from elite to inconsistent and Lance has looked terrible on D. This would be a good time for Vogel to reemphasis our plan for defending the 3.
                  Vogel is a player's coach, but I agree, it's about time he steps in and shortens Lance's leash. Especially when it comes to showing up his teammates. I can forgive a lot of his other antics, but that is not one of them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                    Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                    That's what scares me the most. Lance doesn't look like he's getting any coaching right now and if Turner is similar to Lance, I see a bad combination ready to happen. We need Lance to be almost pulled from the second unit anyway.
                    The past 15 games our interior D has been as good as ever but our perimeter D has sucked. Paul has gone from elite to inconsistent and Lance has looked terrible on D. This would be a good time for Vogel to reemphasis our plan for defending the 3.
                    Our off-the-ball defense has been pretty bad recently. Guys getting open for 3, guys getting open on backdoor cuts, etc. Too much ball watching and then gambling as opposed to simply staying at home and being fundamentally sound defensively.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                      Originally posted by cdash View Post
                      Vogel is a player's coach, but I agree, it's about time he steps in and shortens Lance's leash. Especially when it comes to showing up his teammates. I can forgive a lot of his other antics, but that is not one of them.
                      I agree. I think players like Roy and David do better with a players coach. I'm starting to think Lance needs a Larry Brown.
                      Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                        I think too much is being made of his days in Philly. Look at his career at Ohio State for a better accounting of what he is capable of. Ohio State had more talent (at the college level) than Philly (at NBA level). I always loved his game at OSU. There are good reasons he was drafted number 2.

                        Many defended Granger's steadily declining FG% to him being the best pllayer on a bad team, thus attracting more defenders, and also forcing him to take bad shots. I think the same was true of Turner in Philly. That won't happen now.
                        Last edited by Tom White; 02-21-2014, 10:07 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                          Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                          I think too much is being made of his days in Philly. Look at his career at Ohio State for a better accounting of what he is capable of. Ohio State had more talent (at the college level) than Philly (at NBA level). I always loved his game at OSU. There are good reasons he was drafted number 2.
                          He is too far removed from college to be judging him based of it.

                          He thinks hes the man now, and that is valid concern. At the moment I don't see how he and Lance could be on the court at the same time

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                            Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                            I think too much is being made of his days in Philly. Look at his career at Ohio State for a better accounting of what he is capable of. Ohio State had more talent (at the college level) than Philly (at NBA level). I always loved his game at OSU. There are good reasons he was drafted number 2.
                            I'm sorry, but I can't buy that argument. Never will I put more stock into a guy's college career than a 3+ year NBA sample size. There are good reasons he was drafted second overall; he just hasn't put them together yet. He can get there, but this is another reason why outright tanking doesn't work: It develops losing habits in your players, even the young ones you are "building" around. Obviously Philly wasn't building around Turner, but these guys aren't learning how to win.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is Evan Turner Indiana's Missing Piece? ESPN Article

                              3 point shooting is not a necessity to be an effective floor spreader. If Turner can refine his game into a more dynamic Rip Hamilton style, he will have a niche in this league for a long long time. I think it would behoove the coaching staff to not force the 3 point shot onto him at all and instead emphasize solid ball control and purposeful offensive cuts. None of that pounding the ball for a large percentage of the shot clock.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X