Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Granger traded to Philly

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Originally posted by tflo View Post
    I know this trade happened a few days ago, but it just still don’t feel right to me. I think a lot of Pacers fans would agree with me. I can’t imagine what Granger feels now. After watching a video of Granger saying his goodbyes, I came to the conclusion that this game of basketball is only about money and not about loyalty. I feel bad for Granger and hope him the best. He deserves a lot more than what the Pacers gave him. You can call me old school, but to me it just doesn’t seem right. I’m out.
    While I understand your point(I hate seeing Granger go too), I have a question.

    Would you rather keep Granger or win a Championship? If you had to chose one or the other, which do you pick?

    Comment


    • Re: Granger traded to Philly

      Originally posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
      This whole thing really made me respect the Spurs so much more, even though I respected them a whole lot already. You've gotta believe teams approached Pop with trade scenarios for Manu, TD or TP over the years, possibly hoping to add more veteran experience to a young locker room, yet Pop and the Spurs managed to keep those guys all these years. Instead of sacrificing them for younger talent to hasten the rebuild, they've found ways to build the pieces around them to stay competitive, even as those guys have aged considerably and even battled injuries and missed more than a few games. And it's not like they've found hidden stars. We're talking about Patty Mills and Marco Belinelli here. So, tip of my hat to Pop and Spurs for their continued success and loyalty to their core players.

      Hypothetical situation is hypothetical.
      There is no NBA player named Monte Ellis.

      Comment


      • Re: Granger traded to Philly

        nice article I did not see posted. good quotes from DWEST on Turner (and Bynum).

        Turner Hoping To “Fit In”

        by Mark Montieth | askmontieth@gmail.com

        February 23, 2014




        The most important quote of the year so far among the Pacers goes to Evan Turner, who made his practice debut with his new teammates on Sunday.

        “Hopefully I'll earn my minutes and be able to play,” he said.

        “I'm going to keep my eyes and my ears open. Try to walk the way they walk and get used to their foundation and standards.”

        Turner – the centerpiece of the transaction that sent Danny Granger to Philadelphia for Turner and Lavoy Allen and forced the release of Orlando Johnson – was a consensus first-team All-American in college, the national player of the year according to some organizations, the second pick in the 2010 NBA draft, and Philadelphia's leading scorer this season (17.4). He's accustomed not only to starting, but to starring.

        So, can he fit in as a role player likely to get 20-25 minutes off the bench?

        Whether or not he backs up his words with action and attitude likely will be the key to the success of the deal.

        Turner and Allen participated in a pre-practice video session and then went through the halfcourt offense along with Andrew Bynum, Donald Sloan and Solomon Hill Sunday afternoon at Bankers Life Fieldhouse. Turner will be thrown into the fray on Tuesday against the visiting Los Angeles Lakers and get Granger's backup minutes at small forward – probably 20-25 according to coach Frank Vogel. Allen will not be in the playing rotation at first.

        Team president Larry Bird, who executed the trade deadline deal, likes the versatility Turner brings to the Pacers' offense. Granger had become little more than a jump shooter following his knee surgery last season, unable to create shots for himself or finish drives to the basket. Turner is not as good a three-point threat, hitting just 28 percent of those shots, but can score in more ways.

        “He does a little bit of everything,” Bird said on Sunday. “He can play multiple positions. I like the way he handles the ball, moves the ball.

        “It's hard to compare the two, but I think it's a good fit for us. The more we go along, the more you'll see what he can do for this team.”

        Paul George, the Pacers' leading scorer, welcomes the addition of Turner. They became friends while preparing for the 2010 draft, and have remained in contact since then. As long as Turner is willing to give up some minutes and shots, George believes it will work out well.

        “He's got to be able to make that sacrifice,” George said. “A lot of guys did on this team, so it's no different for him. He's got to do that as well to start off and we'll go from there.”

        There's irony to Turner joining a team led by George. Turner was the second pick in the 2010 draft. He' s played well, but has not received individual recognition in the NBA beyond playing in the Rising Stars game over All-Star Weekend two seasons. George, who was drafted 10th, was voted the league's Most Improved Player a year ago and is a two-time All-Star – a starter this season.

        Asked about that on Sunday, George interrupted the questioner and pointed out that Turner is “now on my team.”

        It's George's team more than anyone else's, and Turner will have to live with that.

        Turner, though, brings intriguing talent and potential to the Pacers' bench. And he's not that far removed from coming off the bench, having started just 14 games as a rookie and 20 the following season.

        “It is what it is,” he said. “I'm just going to try to fit in and earn minutes.”

        The most intriguing thing about Turner is his fearlessness. He scored 16 points and grabbed seven rebounds in 30 minutes off the bench in his first NBA game. He had a double-double in his first start. He scored 31 earlier this season against Cleveland, and hit a game-tying shot with 8.7 seconds left in the first overtime. He also scored a career-high 34 against the Knicks on Jan. 22. And, he hit game-winning buzzer beaters against the Nets and the Celtics this season.

        He also hit a 37-foot game-winning three-pointer to beat Michigan in the first round of the Big Ten tournament at Bankers Life four years ago, his junior year at Ohio State.

        “I had a great weekend that weekend,” Turner said. “Hopefully I have a great few months (here).”

        If the Pacers make as deep a playoff run as they hope, Turner should have plenty of opportunities to hit more big shots.

        “Evan Turner's a helluva player, man,” David West said. “I think he's going to help us tremendously. He adds a shot-creator and he's a big-moment guy. People overlook that about him. He's hit some game-winners. He's not scared of those moments.”

        Allen Will Have To Be Patient

        Allen will have to make an even greater sacrifice than Turner, at least at first. After averaging 18.8 minutes per game with the 76ers this season, he'll likely be out of the rotation with the Pacers unless a power forward is injured.

        He knows that, and prefers it to playing a lot of minutes with a losing team.

        “This team has been together for awhile,” he said. “I think it's going to take some time to get in there. That just means I have to be prepared and come in here and get some extra conditioning and be ready when my name is called.”

        Allen averaged 5.2 points and 5.4 rebounds with Philadelphia, and scored a career-high 20 at Sacramento last season. But he's known primarily for defense. He had an eye-opening turn against Kevin Garnett in the second round of the playoffs two years ago, when the 76ers were within one game of reaching the conference finals.

        “That's definitely something I pride myself in,” he said. “That's one of the reasons I've made it this far.”

        Allen – the 50th player taken in the 2011 draft – drew high praise from 76ers teammate Andre Iguodala during that series.

        “He's definitely shown up big for us in these playoffs," Iguodala said then. “He's one of those under-the-radar guys coming out of the draft, kind of like Paul Millsap or Carlos Boozer. Coming out, they just fell under the radar. Then when you put them in a position to just do their job, they excel.”

        The consensus among the Pacers is that you can never have enough capable big men, and Allen add another to their roster.

        “He's a good player, not just a throw-in,” Vogel said.

        But What About The Chemistry?

        The Pacers seemed to have outstanding chemistry this season, both on the court and in the locker room. Now that they've shaken up the roster, adding Bynum, Turner and Allen and subtracting Granger and Johnson, they're a different team.

        Most league observers agree they have more talent after the transactions. But will they get along as well? Will they play together as well.

        “We have a great group of guys already who like one another and like playing with one another and are like brothers in there, so I'm sure they're going to accept that and fit right in with us,” George Hill said.

        “We'll be fine,” West added. “Andrew's been here for three weeks and he's fit in fine. Lavoy and Evan are good guys. They understand what's expected of them. Our locker room is strong. There's not going to be a lot of room for guys coming in slacking. Everyone knows their responsibility.”

        Bird, who made the deals that altered the makeup, is not concerned.

        “You never know, but I don't worry about that stuff,” he said. “I played on a lot of teams and we made a lot of changes. I can remember (Celtics team president Red Auerbach) called me in and traded my best friend on the team. I was upset about it until I found out who he had traded him for. Then I was very happy.”

        Bird declined to say who that friend was. The best guess is that it was Rick Robey, who was traded for Dennis Johnson before the 1983-84 season. Robey and Bird were tight, but Johnson helped the Celtics to two more championships during Bird's career. Bird called him the best teammate he had ever had.

        More Praise For Orlando

        Bird joined the chorus of praise for Orlando Johnson, who had to be dropped to make room on the roster for Turner and Allen.

        Bird had moved up in the 2012 draft to take Johnson, and gave him a two-year guaranteed contract, rare for a second-round pick. But a sacrifice had to be made to execute Thursday's trade with Philadelphia.

        “It was very difficult,” Bird said. “One of the nicest kids you'll ever meet. Very hard worker. Maybe in the future we can get him back here. There's no guarantee, but you never know what's going to happen.”

        Johnson sent the following tweet after his release:

        http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/turner-hoping-fit

        Comment


        • Re: Granger traded to Philly

          Originally posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
          This whole thing really made me respect the Spurs so much more, even though I respected them a whole lot already. You've gotta believe teams approached Pop with trade scenarios for Manu, TD or TP over the years, possibly hoping to add more veteran experience to a young locker room, yet Pop and the Spurs managed to keep those guys all these years. Instead of sacrificing them for younger talent to hasten the rebuild, they've found ways to build the pieces around them to stay competitive, even as those guys have aged considerably and even battled injuries and missed more than a few games. And it's not like they've found hidden stars. We're talking about Patty Mills and Marco Belinelli here. So, tip of my hat to Pop and Spurs for their continued success and loyalty to their core players.
          GHill?

          Comment


          • Re: Granger traded to Philly

            Originally posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
            This whole thing really made me respect the Spurs so much more, even though I respected them a whole lot already. You've gotta believe teams approached Pop with trade scenarios for Manu, TD or TP over the years, possibly hoping to add more veteran experience to a young locker room, yet Pop and the Spurs managed to keep those guys all these years. Instead of sacrificing them for younger talent to hasten the rebuild, they've found ways to build the pieces around them to stay competitive, even as those guys have aged considerably and even battled injuries and missed more than a few games. And it's not like they've found hidden stars. We're talking about Patty Mills and Marco Belinelli here. So, tip of my hat to Pop and Spurs for their continued success and loyalty to their core players.
            Well...I'm sure winning a few championships with those guys helped their decisions on whether to keep them or not.

            Comment


            • Re: Granger traded to Philly

              Originally posted by Merz View Post
              Well...I'm sure winning a few championships with those guys helped their decisions on whether to keep them or not.
              Those guys also took discounts.

              Comment


              • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                Originally posted by tflo View Post
                I know this trade happened a few days ago, but it just still don’t feel right to me. I think a lot of Pacers fans would agree with me. I can’t imagine what Granger feels now. After watching a video of Granger saying his goodbyes, I came to the conclusion that this game of basketball is only about money and not about loyalty. I feel bad for Granger and hope him the best. He deserves a lot more than what the Pacers gave him. You can call me old school, but to me it just doesn’t seem right. I’m out.
                Herm Edwards said it best.

                "you play to win the game"

                Comment


                • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                  Originally posted by Merz View Post
                  Well...I'm sure winning a few championships with those guys helped their decisions on whether to keep them or not.
                  How so? Don't teams trade players after winning championships? Shaq and the Lakers? Bynum and the Lakers? Didn't the Mavs sign and trade Chandler to the Knicks after winning a ring? KG and Pierce and the Celtics?

                  Winning championships might help a GM decide to keep his core players, or it might not. That's what makes Pop and the Spurs so special. They've kept them and still remained competitive despite their age and declining talents. They've had to be creative with their acquisitions, but they haven't sacrificed their principles for more talent.
                  2015, 2016, 2019 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champions - DC Dreamers

                  Comment


                  • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                    Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
                    While I understand your point(I hate seeing Granger go too), I have a question.

                    Would you rather keep Granger or win a Championship? If you had to chose one or the other, which do you pick?
                    I understand your point but I think we could of won the championship with Granger on the team. I think he would improve in time. And you have to admit it he deserves the championship ring more then anybody else on the team. Larry might have made a mistake on this trade.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                      Well, I hope this trade works out.

                      I think Turner's definitely the best player in the deal, but sometimes it doesn't work out. Granger shot poorly this season, but he was still a threat and drew the defense out, which helped with spacing.

                      I think he and Lance can do well without the ball, but there will be occasions where both players are on the floor and teams will probably pack the paint.

                      Granger was moving poorly on defense and getting lost, but he was a lot better on the interior than Turner. Otherwise, Turner's a better perimeter defender and a better rebounder.



                      *EDIT* Also, fwiw, Granger skipped today's practice in Philadelphia.
                      Last edited by imawhat; 02-23-2014, 10:51 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                        Originally posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
                        How so? Don't teams trade players after winning championships? Shaq and the Lakers? Bynum and the Lakers? Didn't the Mavs sign and trade Chandler to the Knicks after winning a ring? KG and Pierce and the Celtics?

                        Winning championships might help a GM decide to keep his core players, or it might not. That's what makes Pop and the Spurs so special. They've kept them and still remained competitive despite their age and declining talents. They've had to be creative with their acquisitions, but they haven't sacrificed their principles for more talent.
                        So...you don't think it "helped"? It's kinda hard for you to say what the Pacers would of done if Granger was more like Duncan, or what the Spurs would of done if Duncan was more like Granger. Who's to say that the Spurs wouldn't have traded Duncan if he was championship-less, coming off a 1 1/2 season injury, was a shell of his former self, was probably gonna be off the team in a few months anyway, and it could improve the team's chance to win a championship.

                        I'm sorry, but I don't really see the comparison between Granger and the 3 Spurs.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                          Originally posted by Merz View Post
                          So...you don't think it "helped"? It's kinda hard for you to say what the Pacers would of done if Granger was more like Duncan, or what the Spurs would of done if Duncan was more like Granger. Who's to say that the Spurs wouldn't have traded Duncan if he was championship-less, coming off a 1 1/2 season injury, was a shell of his former self, was probably gonna be off the team in a few months anyway, and it could improve the team's chance to win a championship.

                          I'm sorry, but I don't really see the comparison between Granger and the 3 Spurs.
                          My intention wasn't to compare Granger with the 3 Spurs. It was only to highlight how trading our longest tenured player, someone who did so much for the city and was well liked and respected, increased my respect for an organization that found ways to keep their longest tenured and most respected players throughout the years. They did so by building around them regardless of their declining abilities and various injuries, rather than trading them for more talent.

                          It's hard to say whether winning championships "helped" the Spurs keep their big three in tact because we've seen teams win championships and dismantle their instrumental pieces anyway, and we've also seen teams not win championships and still keep their longest tenured and most respected players.
                          2015, 2016, 2019 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champions - DC Dreamers

                          Comment


                          • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                            Originally posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
                            My intention wasn't to compare Granger with the 3 Spurs. It was only to highlight how trading our longest tenured player, someone who did so much for the city and was well liked and respected, increased my respect for an organization that found ways to keep their longest tenured and most respected players throughout the years. They did so by building around them regardless of their declining abilities and various injuries, rather than trading them for more talent.

                            It's hard to say whether winning championships "helped" the Spurs keep their big three in tact because we've seen teams win championships and dismantle their instrumental pieces anyway, and we've also seen teams not win championships and still keep their longest tenured and most respected players.

                            The key difference is that Duncan/Parker/Manu have all remained extremely productive for a very long time, whereas Granger went downhill fast and became a shell of himself at age 30. The Spurs keeping those 3 guys isn't because they treat their long tenured players better than the Pacers, it's instead because those 3 players have continued to help them win for a very long time. None of them have really declined that much. Sure Duncan can't score in the 20's anymore, but he still averages a very respectable 15.8 PPG, rebounds like hell, and has a strong defensive presence. Parker is still a complete stud. Age has caught up to Manu a little bit, but he is still a pretty solid player. Even though all of these guys are older than Granger, none of them have declined at the rapid rate he did. It sucks that it happened to DG, but it unfortunately is what it is.
                            Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-24-2014, 12:36 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                              The key difference is that Duncan/Parker/Manu have all remained extremely productive for a very long time, whereas Granger went downhill fast and became a shell of himself at age 30. The Spurs keeping those 3 guys isn't because they treat their long tenured players better than the Pacers, it's instead because those 3 players have continued to help them win for a very long time. None of them have really declined that much. Sure Duncan can't score in the 20's anymore, but he still averages a very respectable 15.8 PPG, rebounds like hell, and has a strong defensive presence. Parker is still a complete stud. Age has caught up to Manu a little bit, but he is still a pretty solid player. Even though all of these guys are older than Granger, none of them have declined at the rapid rate he did. It sucks that it happened to DG, but it unfortunately is what it is.
                              Win what? These Spurs haven't won in 7 years.

                              And considering how extremely productive they've been, that would make them even more valuable in a trade than Granger. Pop could have pulled the trigger like Bird, in hopes of using one of his veterans to retool with younger talent, but he hasn't, despite their inability to get over the hump. 7 years have gone by with the same core without a championship. They're not getting any younger, yet Pop hasn't traded them. The Pacers had one shot at the Finals last year, without Granger. This year, they seemed improved, had the #1 seed, and could have seen how Granger would have helped, even at a shell of himself as you say, though perhaps he would have improved as the season wore on. We'll never know as they chose not to reward their longest tenured and most respected player with that opportunity.

                              Simply put, Bird pulled the trigger too soon. He should have given this group their opportunity without bringing in all these reinforcements. What did the Heat do to get better from last year? Sign Greg Oden? We CLEARLY got better. Why panic? Why force these players to adapt to new teammates with 20 games to go? For more talent on paper? For Evan Turner, who the Sixers had no intention of resigning and their fan base was more than happy to see leave? Time will tell if it was a good move, of course, but we know from history that teams don't win championships on talent alone. This team put in the work as a unit during the summer. They deserved their rematch, without Bynum and Turner.
                              2015, 2016, 2019 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champions - DC Dreamers

                              Comment


                              • Re: Granger traded to Philly

                                Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                                The key difference is that Duncan/Parker/Manu have all remained extremely productive for a very long time, whereas Granger went downhill fast and became a shell of himself at age 30. The Spurs keeping those 3 guys isn't because they treat their long tenured players better than the Pacers, it's instead because those 3 players have continued to help them win for a very long time. None of them have really declined that much. Sure Duncan can't score in the 20's anymore, but he still averages a very respectable 15.8 PPG, rebounds like hell, and has a strong defensive presence. Parker is still a complete stud. Age has caught up to Manu a little bit, but he is still a pretty solid player. Even though all of these guys are older than Granger, none of them have declined at the rapid rate he did. It sucks that it happened to DG, but it unfortunately is what it is.
                                Also those guys have not had an injury like grangers, that really accelerated Danny's decline, because Danny had a similar game where he didn't utilize athleticism as he weapon he had a below the rim style of game. That he could have remained productive well into his 30's however he wasn't that fast or quick to begin with and with the knee injury it made it worse.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X