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Thread: Granger traded to Philly

  1. #1051
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I really, really can't buy into the notion that somehow Granger was handicapped by having to play a large portion of his minutes with Lance.
    I didn't say that Granger was handicapped by having to play a large portion of his minutes with Lance (though one could argue that Lance looked for his shot a bit too much in the second unit--an argument for another conversation)

    I did say that for Turner to be put in the best possible position to succeed, it would be best if he didn't play most of his minutes with Lance. Turner is best with the ball in his hands, creating and isolating while looking to score. He wouldn't get those opportunities nearly as much if he played within a second unit that has been featuring Lance on 75% of the possessions.

  2. #1052

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    The final tally of how the team did with George/Granger on the floor vs Lance/Granger:

    Lineup Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating Minutes Played TS% 3FG% FTA +/- A/TO ratio
    PG/Granger 96.3 91.8 4.5 319 50.7 28.2 174 34 1.16
    Lance/Granger 100.00 89.2 10.7 302 51.7 38.5 139 60 1.32


    There's some interest things in the data here. For one, the thought that Granger played most of his minutes with Lance is false. He actually played slightly more minutes with Paul George. And then the data shows that the team did tons better with a Lance/Granger combination on the floor than Granger/George. Better offensive rating, better defensive rating, better TS%, etc.

    I'm sure I could dig into the numbers to find this for sure, but my guess would be that when Granger was playing with George there were actually more starters on the floor than when he was playing with Lance. That's just based on Vogel's substitution patterns, so that could very well be an incorrect guess.

    I wouldn't say just based on these numbers that Granger/George was a bad combination. There's still lots of sample size/variable noise, especially with Granger just coming back from injury. But the thought that Lance was dragging Granger's potential down, or more precisely that combination has been struggling on the floor since Granger came back is just not showing itself to be very likely based on the data.

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  4. #1053
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    The final tally of how the team did with George/Granger on the floor vs Lance/Granger:

    Lineup Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating Minutes Played TS% 3FG% FTA +/- A/TO ratio
    PG/Granger 96.3 91.8 4.5 319 50.7 28.2 174 34 1.16
    Lance/Granger 100.00 89.2 10.7 302 51.7 38.5 139 60 1.32


    There's some interest things in the data here. For one, the thought that Granger played most of his minutes with Lance is false. He actually played slightly more minutes with Paul George. And then the data shows that the team did tons better with a Lance/Granger combination on the floor than Granger/George. Better offensive rating, better defensive rating, better TS%, etc.

    I'm sure I could dig into the numbers to find this for sure, but my guess would be that when Granger was playing with George there were actually more starters on the floor than when he was playing with Lance. That's just based on Vogel's substitution patterns, so that could very well be an incorrect guess.

    I wouldn't say just based on these numbers that Granger/George was a bad combination. There's still lots of sample size/variable noise, especially with Granger just coming back from injury. But the thought that Lance was dragging Granger's potential down, or more precisely that combination has been struggling on the floor since Granger came back is just not showing itself to be very likely based on the data.
    You also have to consider that Lance/Granger typically played against the other teams back-ups, while I imagine Paul/Grangerplayed more against other teams starts. As well I believe on almost all accounts those Paul/Granger numbers are huge improvements over what they were at the beginning. So it is possible with more time that things would equal out more. We would have to look for trends in the data to know that for sure though.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    I actually think the Lance/Granger pairing was mutually beneficial, I'm a little concerned abotu the lack of shooting in a Lance/ET pairing but think we can solve it with a faster pace. I actually think the respect defense gave to Danny's jumper gave Lance some good room to work offensively.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Sure it could be argued. Anything can be argued.
    That explains the whole Trent Richardson thing.

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  10. #1056
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    One thing that worries me: name the last player that looks better in our offense than their previous team's.

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  12. #1057
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    One thing that worries me: name the last player that looks better in our offense than their previous team's.
    Under Frank? None, and that's concerning. We'd have to go back to Dunleavy and Murphy, but that's under O'Brien's system.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I actually think the Lance/Granger pairing was mutually beneficial, I'm a little concerned abotu the lack of shooting in a Lance/ET pairing but think we can solve it with a faster pace. I actually think the respect defense gave to Danny's jumper gave Lance some good room to work offensively.
    That was something I was hoping for at the beginning of the year for the bench. I think it would have also benefited Orlando and Lance. We saw it a little bit in the preseason when we had a line-up of Watson, Orlando, Lance, Cope, Mahinmi, and it did well. Granted it was preseason so it is tough to say how well it would have translated, but it was very promising how well they performed.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    Under Frank? None, and that's concerning. We'd have to go back to Dunleavy and Murphy, but that's under O'Brien's system.
    Taking out the first year of David West here I would argue that there was no real drop off from him and his Hornet days especially considering he was playing with the best creator in basketball.

    Frank to me requires guys to function well in getting their own shot which is good for Turner and Bynum since they both can do that. When the Pacers brought in Gerald Green that was a guy who needs to run and be assisted which isn't our style. Part of me hates this aspect of Franks offense but its also why they wear teams down over 4 quarters.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Taking out the first year of David West here I would argue that there was no real drop off from him and his Hornet days especially considering he was playing with the best creator in basketball.

    Frank to me requires guys to function well in getting their own shot which is good for Turner and Bynum since they both can do that. When the Pacers brought in Gerald Green that was a guy who needs to run and be assisted which isn't our style. Part of me hates this aspect of Franks offense but its also why they wear teams down over 4 quarters.
    I agree. West has been huge for us. He easily could have made the All-Star team this year. But the question was who has looked better in our offense.

    Also, found this as I was browsing Evan Turner videos on YouTube I'd love to know what was going through his mind when he thought this was a good idea.

    (NSFW)


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  19. #1061

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I agree. West has been huge for us. He easily could have made the All-Star team this year. But the question was who has looked better in our offense.

    Also, found this as I was browsing Evan Turner videos on YouTube I'd love to know what was going through his mind when he thought this was a good idea.
    Well CJ Watson with the Bulls sucked even though most of us remember that one game where he went crazy on the Pacers. The question is a bit deceiving becuase it implies the Pacers have signed or traded for underdeveloped or utilized talent. That simply isn't the case.

    Plus we really don't need Turner to improve since his numbers are already there offensively and are a lot better than Grangers.

  20. #1062
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    That Evan Turner video gets me every time .

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  22. #1063
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Just excited to see Evan play tomorrow so we can hopefully fully move on from this.
    Move on?


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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Anyone else hearing he got bought out? I guess we will find out how bitter he is.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly


  25. #1066

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Anyone else hearing he got bought out? I guess we will find out how bitter he is.
    I think he goes to LA. Clippers. Just a hunch.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Via RealGM. I'm not buying yet.

  27. #1068
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Via RealGM. I'm not buying yet.
    No, philly is! LOL
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  28. #1069
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    He shouldn't be that bitter. Peyton Manning meant infinitely more to this city and was discarded when it came time as well. Manning even built a hospital with his own funds...yet he was cut loose. It's a business people. LeBron taught you all it is just a business...

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I agree. West has been huge for us. He easily could have made the All-Star team this year. But the question was who has looked better in our offense.

    Also, found this as I was browsing Evan Turner videos on YouTube I'd love to know what was going through his mind when he thought this was a good idea.

    (NSFW)

    He's a young guy and young guys do dumb things. Turn the page...

  30. #1071
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    One thing that worries me: name the last player that looks better in our offense than their previous team's.
    I relate. But name the last player to leave the Pacers for a team with a better record.

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  32. #1072

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    He's a young guy and young guys do dumb things. Turn the page...

    Even older guys do it. (Quinn commenting on the hefty, leopard suited woman right after a commercial break.)
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

  33. #1073
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    Even older guys do it. (Quinn commenting on the hefty, leopard suited woman right after a commercial break.)
    True. But older guys have learned a few lessons over the years. Huge mistakes are made by guys in their early 20's that they would never do if just a bit more mature.

  34. #1074

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    True. But older guys have learned a few lessons over the years. Huge mistakes are made by guys in their early 20's that they would never do if just a bit more mature.
    I see both as being similar mistakes.... but either would have been funny if done by Quinn Buckner on a Pacer's telecast.
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

  35. #1075

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Manning even built a hospital with his own funds......
    Whoa.

    Yes, he's donated money to it. Yes, he's given his time and presence to fund-raisers. No - he didn't build it with his own money. Let's not elevate him to saint-hood quite yet.

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