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Thread: Granger traded to Philly

  1. #826

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    First of all, I love Danny. I'm really sad to see him go and wish him nothing but the very best.

    Few thoughts:

    1. Bird wasn't actively shopping DG around the league, but, as a GM, once you receive an offer you can't refuse, well then... you can't refuse it
    Bird saw Turner and Allen as substantial upgrades over Danny and made a tough call, all the while thinking of the franchise's best interests, and not Danny's. As he should.

    2. We'll now have a better chance to sign Lance! And most importantly have insurance for Lance if he decides to sign elsewhere.
    Just imagine what would happen if we were to fail in our quest to win a championship this year AND lose Lance in the summer...
    PD would be in meltdown.
    The bottom line is this deal has the Pacers' FUTURE in mind too, and not only their present.

    3. I think it's obvious Turner is a better player than Danny at this point of their careers, but ultimately, I believe the success of this trade will rest on how much of likeable guy Evan Turner is.
    If the guys like him on a personal level and he gets along with everybody, I think it will translate very quickly on the court and make this deal a huge win for us.

    4. If Turner plays well and manages to ease the load off of PG and Lance, it would be absolutely huge.
    It could possibly mean more wins in the regular season, since the guys will be fresher on back 2 backs etc. It would also probably lower the risk of injury for Lance and Paul, since they play heavy minutes.
    The players' health should be an even higher priority than HCA IMO.

    5. This trade could end up helping Danny's longterm future. He's looking to sign a new contract in the summer, and if he ends up playing major minutes for the Sixers and put up better numbers,
    it could help him get a substantially better contract, and jump start his career too. If I'm not mistaken, in the summer he'll be free to sign anywhere he wants,
    so it's not a certainty he'll be stuck on a bottom feeder team for the rest of his career either.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Heh, perhaps I can tell a story here that will help understand where I come from on this.

    December 2012, I had to make a decision to let an employee go from my family business who had literally been with the business since before I was born. He was well past retirement age and had begun making mistakes (maintenance guy) that were putting not only himself but others in harm's way. It was one of the hardest decisions I'll probably ever have to make. It stuck with me for about a day and then I had a realization that it was just the first of many times in my life I will have to make or be around a decision like that. Business regardless of what area you are in, kind of sucks.

    These guys have had their time to be emotional about it. We've had our time to be emotional about it. Honestly, I was over the emotions this morning until all the videos started coming out, that sucked a bit, but this evening I am back and ready to get going with the rest of the season tomorrow. The players need to be too. Danny isn't dead. He's going to be OK, personally I'm hoping he plays the last 20 some games with Philly chucks a bunch of shots and gets paid one last time. That would make me really happy as a Danny fan. You have to learn to look at the positives. It sucked to have to let my employee go, but it was better than hearing how he was forgetting things or how he had backed his truck into a sign. He still comes into the office on occasion and drops off vegetables that he's grown.

    Paul George is 23 years old, I was 24 when I had to make that decision in December of 12, so trust me I feel for him, but I can also promise him, life will go on. It will be OK.
    I appreciate the story. I think we all have similar examples on some level or other.

    Life sucks sometimes.

    I know it will "Be OK" - I'm not sitting here saying otherwise.

    My point, I suppose, throughout this entire ordeal, is that I don't think it's fair for any one person to try to dictate to another how they should react to a difficult thing emotionally.

    I want the Pacers to rip off a 5-10 game win streak and regain our edge just as badly as everyone else. I'll happily cheer for Bynum, Turner and Allen as Pacers.

    That does not lessen or diminish my heartbreak and sadness over Danny being dealt.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Honestly, reading this thread, you would've thought Danny died or something. The Pacers didn't do Danny some disservice, he's made a lot of money because of this organization and this year, he's made a lot more money than he's probably worth as a player. He was a very good player for us, and was a beacon of light in a pretty dark time for Pacers' basketball. At the same time, he wasn't a great player, he was a really good one. It's not like he was untouchable especially given his diminished physical ability. Given our salary cap situation, make no mistake about it, this is probably our best year to win an NBA title. You can't fault Larry Legend for taking winning over sentiment. Turner could end up being a colossal bust or the best 6th man of the second half, who knows, but the talent is there...and Danny wasn't giving us a whole lot besides a high bball IQ and being a willing passer.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by 31Since1990 View Post
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    Hey are you going to the game tomorrow?
    Nope

    I have a very early flight the next morning and Milwaukee is about 5 hours from me.

  8. #830

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance George View Post
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    Philly got a second rounder out of the deal. Pretty pitiful, I know.

    After today, I've gotta say, what the Sixers are currently doing may be the most blatant example of tanking in U.S. sports history. They gave up Turner, Allen, and Hawes for three second round picks. That's their leading scorer and rebounders. Wow.

    Where did Spencer Hawes go?

  9. #831
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Heh, perhaps I can tell a story here that will help understand where I come from on this.

    December 2012, I had to make a decision to let an employee go from my family business who had literally been with the business since before I was born. He was well past retirement age and had begun making mistakes (maintenance guy) that were putting not only himself but others in harm's way. It was one of the hardest decisions I'll probably ever have to make. It stuck with me for about a day and then I had a realization that it was just the first of many times in my life I will have to make or be around a decision like that. Business regardless of what area you are in, kind of sucks.

    These guys have had their time to be emotional about it. We've had our time to be emotional about it. Honestly, I was over the emotions this morning until all the videos started coming out, that sucked a bit, but this evening I am back and ready to get going with the rest of the season tomorrow. The players need to be too. Danny isn't dead. He's going to be OK, personally I'm hoping he plays the last 20 some games with Philly chucks a bunch of shots and gets paid one last time. That would make me really happy as a Danny fan. You have to learn to look at the positives. It sucked to have to let my employee go, but it was better than hearing how he was forgetting things or how he had backed his truck into a sign. He still comes into the office on occasion and drops off vegetables that he's grown.

    Paul George is 23 years old, I was 24 when I had to make that decision in December of 12, so trust me I feel for him, but I can also promise him, life will go on. It will be OK.
    right before Christmas, huh?

  10. #832
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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Turner's game has some warts. But there are some important contextual differences. He does not need to be the man on this team. He likely will be playing a lot of minutes against opponents' back ups now as opposed to starters. I don't know how this thing is going to go down, but that and playing for a contender may bode well despite some of the concerns. Only time will tell, but I hope he can contribute.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Where did Spencer Hawes go?
    Cleveland.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Is there any way/chance of Philly buying out Granger and Pacers re-signing him
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    Anyone been over to Sixers' boards to see their reactions to trading Turner and Allen? Some concerning posts on the Sixers RealGM board about Turner especially...















    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...5533&start=150

    Trying to leave the emotional aspect out of this, it still doesn't make sense to me. It might look good on paper and he's younger, but I'm more concerned about chemistry now. Teams don't win on talent alone if they can't play together. We had a team that was TOGETHER. We broke them apart. For Evan Turner. Evan. Turner. A tweener guard who shoots from three like Jamaal Tinsley and finishes at the rim like Darren Collison, gets upset when he can't generate foul calls, doesn't defend, apparently has attitude issues, likes to dominate the ball, and has a high turnover rate. If he's our backup plan to Lance leaving... we're in trouble. He's not half the player Lance is.

    Only time will tell, but I really hope we're not looking back on this thinking "Why, Larry? Why? Was Evan Turner worth it? Was breaking up the closest team in the league, the #1 seed in the East, worth it for Evan Turner?"
    I'm sure part of their assessment of Turner is sour grapes over him never playing up to the expectations that come with being drafted so high. Sure there is some reason for concern about their comments, but I think it's safe to say Turner can at least offer as much as Granger was offering the Pacers so far this season.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Is there any way/chance of Philly buying out Granger and Pacers re-signing him
    Good question. Granted, it's a question that has been asked every few pages and answered soon after, but a good question nonetheless. Six months. New rule. Ilgauskas. Google.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    I'm sure part of their assessment of Turner is sour grapes over him never playing up to the expectations that come with being drafted so high. Sure there is some reason for concern about their comments, but I think it's safe to say Turner can at least offer as much as Granger was offering the Pacers so far this season.
    Statistically, I agree. It won't be hard to replace Danny's 8 points per game. But I'm worried about the fit. Turner can't space the floor. He needs the ball to be effective, and even then he's not very efficient. He can create his own shot, true, but what good is creating it if his only option is the mid-range jumper. It's too predictable, hence why it's not very efficient.

    Defensively, the Synergy stats that cdash posted earlier in this thread worry me as well. I don't know how much of that is simply not caring on a bad team versus his lack of athleticism or discipline, but it's hard to say he fits this team's "smashmouth" identity.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Thats a good message.

    What really sucks is that if any those players had bothered to show up and play at high level over the last month, this trade would have never happened. Bird would have told Philly thanks but no thanks, my team is on the floor. But because the majority of the team started mailing it in and thinking that their reputation alone would carry them, gave Bird enough incentive to make a change. So these players that are left need to take a hard look in the mirror.
    So, are you saying it was everyone else's fault that Granger played poorly enough to get traded? (I was going to say failed in his return, but thought that was a bit harsh.)

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    Anyone been over to Sixers' boards to see their reactions to trading Turner and Allen? Some concerning posts on the Sixers RealGM board about Turner especially...
    Philly is not the "city of brotherly love" it used to be made out to be. You gotta remember, this is the city whose football fans pummeled Santa Claus with snowballs at a game. The fans in that town are relentlessly harsh.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Thats a good message.

    What really sucks is that if any those players had bothered to show up and play at high level over the last month, this trade would have never happened. Bird would have told Philly thanks but no thanks, my team is on the floor. But because the majority of the team started mailing it in and thinking that their reputation alone would carry them, gave Bird enough incentive to make a change. So these players that are left need to take a hard look in the mirror.
    I don't think the last month had anything to do with it. Bird was thinking about the future when he made this trade, not the past. We could have been riding a 15 game winning streak and Bird would have still made this deal because it would have made us an even better team in the future. Turner is significantly better than Granger at this point, and you also get Allen sprinkled in. An absolute no brainer of a move regardless of the team's recent W-L record.

    Granger's teammates aren't at fault here. Granger's coach isn't at fault here. The bottom line is that Granger just isn't a very good player anymore. That's not Granger's fault either because bad injuries have robbed him of his abilities, but it just is what it is. I just don't think it's fair to blame Granger's teammates for the fact that he just couldn't play good anymore. It's not like we traded Granger before the season started without giving him the opportunity to prove himself. The season started four months ago and he had two full months to show us that he was worth keeping around. We gave him a very fair opportunity to audition for the part.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    So, are you saying it was everyone else's fault that Granger played poorly enough to get traded? (I was going to say failed in his return, but thought that was a bit harsh.)
    I would contend that Granger's contract was the only realistic asset that Bird was willing to trade anyways. They couldnt take on any salary, and Bird wasn't shopping him. This team has played pretty much.500 ball this past month. Thats not just Danny Granger playing poorly. Danny Granger isn't the reason they got blown out in the 1st quarter by a handful of teams. Thats everyone playing poorly. if the Pacers were winning at a high clip, then no need to make a trade. So while Granger wasn't lighting it up, Bird would have been much more patient if the team wasn't on the cusp of falling apart.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  28. #842

    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Honestly, reading this thread, you would've thought Danny died or something. The Pacers didn't do Danny some disservice, he's made a lot of money because of this organization and this year, he's made a lot more money than he's probably worth as a player. He was a very good player for us, and was a beacon of light in a pretty dark time for Pacers' basketball. At the same time, he wasn't a great player, he was a really good one. It's not like he was untouchable especially given his diminished physical ability. Given our salary cap situation, make no mistake about it, this is probably our best year to win an NBA title. You can't fault Larry Legend for taking winning over sentiment. Turner could end up being a colossal bust or the best 6th man of the second half, who knows, but the talent is there...and Danny wasn't giving us a whole lot besides a high bball IQ and being a willing passer.
    yea lol. i felt bad for granger but then remembered he is making 14m this year lol, im sure he'll be alright

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't think the last month had anything to do with it. Bird was thinking about the future when he made this trade, not the past. We could have been riding a 15 game winning streak and Bird would have still made this deal because it would have made us an even better team in the future. Turner is significantly better than Granger at this point, and you also get Allen sprinkled in. An absolute no brainer of a move regardless of the team's recent W-L record.

    Granger's teammates aren't at fault here. Granger's coach isn't at fault here. The bottom line is that Granger just isn't a very good player anymore. That's not Granger's fault either because bad injuries have robbed him of his abilities, but it just is what it is. I just don't think it's fair to blame Granger's teammates for the fact that he just couldn't play good anymore. It's not like we traded Granger before the season started without giving him the opportunity to prove himself. The season started four months ago and he had two full months to show us that he was worth keeping around. We gave him a very fair opportunity to audition for the part.
    If the Pacers thought Granger would return to form before the end of this season, they would have kept him. This is a one shot deal for Bird. Bird didn't make this move for next year. He already learned his lesson with Antonio Davis and Jon Bender. Bird thinks this move makes us better right now.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    If the Pacers thought Granger would return to form before the end of this season, they would have kept him. This is a one shot deal for Bird. Bird didn't make this move for next year. He already learned his lesson with Antonio Davis and Jon Bender. Bird thinks this move makes us better right now.
    Yeah, by "future", I meant from here until the end of the season. In other words, Bird wasn't making this move because of what had transpired over the last month. No, he made the move because he knew it would improve the team this season from here on out.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Yeah, by "future", I meant from here until the end of the season. In other words, Bird wasn't making this move because of what had transpired over the last month. No, he made the move because he knew it would improve the team this season from here on out.
    Got it. Honestly, I think it might help us a bit against DWade...forcing him to guard Turner who is a pretty physical wing from what I recall. This also allows Lance and Paul to give more fouls. Really, Danny cannot possibly guard DWade or LeBron due to lack of mobility. Danny looked about as quick as West and maybe slower than Copeland. That will simply not cut it against Miami. I'm not saying Turner is a great defender but he's probably a lot quicker and we will need that against Miami or Lance and Paul will get in foul trouble and worn out. Also, Mr. me-first Orlando Johnson simply isn't playing well. Evan Turner, on the other hand, is a starting SG in this league averaging 17-18ppg...and while not scoring efficiently that's far better than OJ could ever dream of performing.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't think the last month had anything to do with it. Bird was thinking about the future when he made this trade, not the past. We could have been riding a 15 game winning streak and Bird would have still made this deal because it would have made us an even better team in the future. Turner is significantly better than Granger at this point, and you also get Allen sprinkled in. An absolute no brainer of a move regardless of the team's recent W-L record.

    Granger's teammates aren't at fault here. Granger's coach isn't at fault here. The bottom line is that Granger just isn't a very good player anymore. That's not Granger's fault either because bad injuries have robbed him of his abilities, but it just is what it is. I just don't think it's fair to blame Granger's teammates for the fact that he just couldn't play good anymore. It's not like we traded Granger before the season started without giving him the opportunity to prove himself. The season started four months ago and he had two full months to show us that he was worth keeping around. We gave him a very fair opportunity to audition for the part.
    2 full months? Please, the first month he had minute restrictions, and was still getting into shape. He hit a slump with his jumper just like every other player on the team. I don't think Larry gave him much of a chance, and with Lance being self and ball dominant in the 2nd unit, Granger was forced to completely change his game on the fly. Thats hard to do in 2 months. If the Pacers went on a 15 game winning streak, Granger doesn't get traded. 30 games isn't enough time to rule on a player returning from major injury. Last time PG or Lance averaged 20 minutes a game they didn't look consistent either. Its not like they were running plays for Danny in the 2nd unit.

    This move was 100% the result of the team struggling over the past month. Bird wasn't even looking to trade Danny, so you can't say he played so poorly that he got himself traded. Danny's contract was the only real asset that Bird could let go of and Philly knew it.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    As sad as I am to see Danny go, I am happy that we, as Pacers fans, got to witness the prime of a very entertaining, talented, but most importantly likable player. Unfortunately, injuries took their toll. But I have sort of feel like we've already been without the Danny we all knew and loved since the 2012 playoffs.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    2 full months? Please, the first month he had minute restrictions, and was still getting into shape. He hit a slump with his jumper just like every other player on the team. I don't think Larry gave him much of a chance, and with Lance being self and ball dominant in the 2nd unit, Granger was forced to completely change his game on the fly. Thats hard to do in 2 months. If the Pacers went on a 15 game winning streak, Granger doesn't get traded. 30 games isn't enough time to rule on a player returning from major injury. Last time PG or Lance averaged 20 minutes a game they didn't look consistent either. Its not like they were running plays for Danny in the 2nd unit.

    This move was 100% the result of the team struggling over the past month. Bird wasn't even looking to trade Danny, so you can't say he played so poorly that he got himself traded. Danny's contract was the only real asset that Bird could let go of and Philly knew it.
    This is just wrong. I think some of you need to read this:

    "My goal is to put the best team I possibly can out there right now," Bird said.
    "Guys have knee injures and a lot of times it takes a full year. He was out a full year. I was out a full year one time. I know how hard it is to come back but we felt we (could) get a young kid at 25 years old and plays multiple positions and does a little bit of everything, it's just a better fit right now for what we're trying to do."

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...trade/5689083/
    Source: Indianapolis Star

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    2 full months? Please, the first month he had minute restrictions, and was still getting into shape. He hit a slump with his jumper just like every other player on the team. I don't think Larry gave him much of a chance, and with Lance being self and ball dominant in the 2nd unit, Granger was forced to completely change his game on the fly. Thats hard to do in 2 months. If the Pacers went on a 15 game winning streak, Granger doesn't get traded. 30 games isn't enough time to rule on a player returning from major injury. Last time PG or Lance averaged 20 minutes a game they didn't look consistent either. Its not like they were running plays for Danny in the 2nd unit.

    This move was 100% the result of the team struggling over the past month. Bird wasn't even looking to trade Danny, so you can't say he played so poorly that he got himself traded. Danny's contract was the only real asset that Bird could let go of and Philly knew it.
    This crap blaming Lance for Danny not playing well is pretty lame, and looks like sour grapes. It's Danny's job to fit in with the better players, it's not the other way around. Stephenson was a huge reason we have the record we do, Granger was not a reason at all. And you want Lance to defer to him? Granger couldn't get his own shot, that was the problem, nothing else.

    Y'all need to accept the fact Granger was never gonna be a starter again and that it would be ridiculous to expect a great young nucleus to adjust to an aging overpaid Granger.

    This trade was a no brainer, slam dunk, financially and from a basketball standpoint. Turner is just a much better player at this point. 3 years ago? Maybe not, but that ain't the case.

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    Default Re: Granger traded to Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This is just wrong. I think some of you need to read this:

    "My goal is to put the best team I possibly can out there right now," Bird said.
    "Guys have knee injures and a lot of times it takes a full year. He was out a full year. I was out a full year one time. I know how hard it is to come back but we felt we (could) get a young kid at 25 years old and plays multiple positions and does a little bit of everything, it's just a better fit right now for what we're trying to do."

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...trade/5689083/
    Source: Indianapolis Star
    You interpret the situation wrong. Bird already said (in the same article )he wasn't shopping Granger, which mean it wasn't Granger's individual play that was the problem. It wasn't Granger taking too long to get back into the groove. The whole team has been struggling, and an opportunity came about to give this team a shot int he arm. The only asset Larry Bird could realistically move that could bring back anything of value was Granger's contract. Bird said the 2nd unit need help. They weren't trading Scola,Watson, or Mahinmi because that causes issues with depth. All those guys have struggled this season. Scola a had a great start and has trailed off.

    Your quote only confirms that Bird knows it takes a long time to come back from Knee injuries, and that he wants to improve team....(cause its been struggling)
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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