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Thread: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Lebron.

    A shooter has to keep shooting in order to get out of their slump. This reaction to PG's struggles are ridiculous. Every player goes through bad times. He'll play his way out of it. Simple as that.
    To an extent yes, but when in a slump they should also be more selective as to when they shoot.

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    To be fair, he doesn't get the call when he goes to the rack.
    That is because he has turned into a whiney baby.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't think the answer is to tell Paul to stop shooting. That is never the answer with your lead perimeter scorer. The answer here is in three parts IMO (if we want to have an actual basketball discussion and not just call him PaulHog):

    1.) Get Paul to the rim more, .

    2.) Get Paul more action coming off screens.

    3.) This one is tough because the whole team is kind of this muck right now, but he's gotta stop foul hunting. It's killing his transition D and it's rubbing off on Lance in a big way.

    Those are my opinions on how Paul can and will continue to add to his offensive game.

    And as always remember he is 23 and it will make all of this much easier on you.
    Very nice. Do an analysis on Roy's game next and email it to Frank.

    1 -Lance and PG had the offside pick with an alley oop, going pretty well early in the year haven't seen it for awhile. Quinn said it the other night that struggling scorers just need to see the ball thru the basket. Easy buckets turn 4-17 into 8-17 and helps the psychy. I saw early we were cross-switching Paul/Lance - Marion/Ellis, so the advantage for PG was not really there, but when other clubs feel their SF can't cover and they offer a smaller, quicker guy, immediately attack that with a post up. I guess I have never really noticed before, but he never posts up and tries to take advantage of his length when it presents itself.


    2 - Again, totally agree. He did show real flashes of Reggie early in the year. More often than not, its a clean focused shot with really only 2 results. You either get a good look, in rhythm, without having to think a lot about it or the guy covering the screener steps out so you just give the ball back to GH to reset or try to give it to the screener slipping to the cup. Reggie ran that series, 1,497,313 times and it still worked in year 18 like it did in year 5. This could be a real go to for PG.

    What we getting right now is a lot of dribbling and ending up with turn around fade aways or step back fade aways. There is no real consistent, go to shot.

    3 - I know its hyperbole, but its also the reaction to being told you are the man and trying how to learn to carry that. Jimmy Kimmel, Sports Center, Dunk Contest, jersey sales, etc. etc. etc.. He thinks given all the accolades, he deserves Lebron, Kobe treatment to bail out every miss.

    Not yet. Not enough resume for the refs to wait to see if the layup misses before calling the bailout foul.
    Last edited by seeker80; 02-13-2014 at 02:20 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    I will agree that Paul needs to have his green light tuned down to a yellow light in one regard: End of quarters.

    We have become insanely predictable on the last possession of quarters. Either we run The Vogel Weave (TM) or Paul dribbles down to the end of the clock and takes an often times highly contested, off balance shot. I would be very curious to see stats on Paul's percentage on end of quarter FG's. It has to be VERY low.

    Quite simply, we aren't trusting our other playmakers to do anything at the end of quarters and all the other team has to do is make sure Lance isn't curling off the key in the weave. If they guard that successfully, literally the ONLY other thing they have to do is stick 1 or more bodies on PG and wait for him to take an off-balance shot.

    Paul is a heck of a player and we need to let him get out of his slump in his own way. I agree with that mentality. Shaking his confidence by revoking his ability to look for his own shot isn't the way to do it. But I *DO* think Vogel ought to be more thoughtful about the way he asks the team to handle the ends of quarters.

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    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Honestly, we should just run the Vogel weave at the end of quarters. I think I've maybe seen it stopped once.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    The Police couldn't say it any better.

    Paul George
    You don't have to wear that jersey tonight
    Walk the courts for money
    You don't care if your jump shot is off tonight.

    Paul George
    Please put on the red light
    Paul George
    Please put on the red light

    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)

    Pacers fans loved you since we knew you
    we wouldn't talk down to you
    we have to tell you just how we feel
    We won't share you with another team

    I know our minds are made up
    So put away your jump shot
    Told you once we won't tell you again
    It's a bad way

    Paul George
    You need to put on the red light
    Paul George
    You need to put on the red light

    Paul George (You need to put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    Paul George (Put on the red light)
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Honestly, we should just run the Vogel weave at the end of quarters. I think I've maybe seen it stopped once.
    I remember ONE time seeing someone come out high to hedge Lance on his curl, stopping his progress.

    David West cut underneath the basket and Lance hit him with a bullet pass for a buzzer beating layup, because the entire defense had collapsed toward Lance.

    THAT is the Pacers basketball we should be playing at the end of quarters.

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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Honestly, we should just run the Vogel weave at the end of quarters. I think I've maybe seen it stopped once.

    they stopped it last night. Well Lance still got a decent shot and made it, but the defense was siting on the weave.

    The problem with end of the quarter plays is you do not want to leave time for the other team to get a shot, so that is why most teams go to some sort of one-on-one play at least to start the play off.

    if you just run a motion type play you might score early in the clock and give the other team 10 seconds to come down and score.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The problem with end of the quarter plays is you do not want to leave time for the other team to get a shot, so that is why most teams go to some sort of one-on-one play at least to start the play off.
    I realize that we don't want the other team to have enough time to score, but the problem is that, with the iso that we run, we hardly ever score either. What that means is that it nets 0 points in both the points for and points against column.

    That's not altogether bad, if you believe in "taking a knee" to run out the clock to end a quarter. And, that is what we might as well do to end quarters. Just dribble out the clock like we would do in the last possession of Q4, because that's all we are accomplishing at the end of Q1, Q2 and Q3 anyway.

    In my opinion, we should always run a play going to our hottest hand(s) in the game, trying our hardest to score, even if we do leave 7 or 8 seconds to our opponents. Then, hit or miss, go to the defensive end and get the stop. We pride ourselves on defense; we should be able to provide maximum focus and get one single stop when we need it most.

    I'd even go further. To maximize our likelihood of getting the score, I'd call a timeout and design a play. This would be excellent practice for getting the late possession scores like we will need in the playoffs. Perfect our plays now, and we will execute them better later. Also, it puts us in a position where we put ourselves in lock-down mode for the other team's final possession of a quarter. Treat our last possession of a quarter versus the opponent's last possession within a quarter as games within the game. It is important to win the final possession battle of each quarter. It shows maturity, it shows focus and it demonstrates to every opponent in the league that we are prepared and ready and that there is very little they can do about it.
    Last edited by beast23; 02-13-2014 at 06:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Lance has issues with turnovers and decision making. His FG shooting is fine
    Even so, we still only have so many shots and we need to get our big men more involved. Taking a few shot attempts from Lance and Paul while feeding the post only makes us a better team.

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