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Thread: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

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    Default Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Paul has been pathetic shooting the ball as of late. His last ten games he has gone 56/172. This percentage is a pathetic 32.5 percent. This is a trend, not a slump. Paul was hot to start the season, but that is looking like a fluke. Paul George cannot shoot, and its costing us games. Calling PG a "top 5" player with this FG% is laughable. Its getting to the point that every shot Paul takes, besides a dunk, is a bad shot.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    If Carmello or Rudy Gay were shooting this poorly, PD wouldxall them chuckers or ball hogs. Paul doesn't get a pass just because he is a Pacer
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Vogel needs to find ways to get more efficient scorers like Hill, West, and Roy more shots
    David "And One" West

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    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Chill.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Chill.
    You know this is good advice when the first three posts of the thread are all the OP.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    In all seriousness though I have always been annoyed with how PG plays, but when he is on what can you say about it? As of late it's gotten bad. I just find it weird that when he is off he continues to SETTLE for the pull back mid-range jumper or force the issue on 3-pointers. This guy seems to never get to the free throw line anymore (statistically speaking you may correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just saying this off of observation). I know in any level of basketball that when you're shot is off then you either find ways to involve your teammates on offense more and contribute on defense, or you attack the basket so you can find your form at the free throw line. He's turning into the scared version of LeBron James almost in a way, you know he can attack (not as good yet, but still) but instead he keeps settling for those jumper even if he missed the previous 10.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    I don't think the answer is to tell Paul to stop shooting. That is never the answer with your lead perimeter scorer. The answer here is in three parts IMO (if we want to have an actual basketball discussion and not just call him PaulHog):

    1.) Get Paul to the rim more, force feed him touches in the post if you have to, but get him heading to the rim. Right now he is begging for fouls 15 feet from the hoop and it's affecting his game. Paul has not had that switch click where he realizes hey I can get calls on a much more reliable basis 5 feet from the hoop. Secondary point to this, Paul has zero idea how to use his body to absorb contact. It was terrible last night and affected him on several layups. Lance was having the same problem last night, but for the most part Lance is generally better at it. Danny in his prime was great at absorbing stuff in and around the hoop. Danny was one of the best players in the NBA at drawing fouls for a while. Paul needs to study some old Danny film from when Granger would work out of the post and try to add that to his game. He should also be studying film of Durant's post game and how he has developed it over time. It is important when saying this to remember that Paul is only 23. I don't think he's going to add any of this **** to his game by the end of the season, but he can start the process now. That is what great players do.

    2.) Get Paul more action coming off screens. We were really good about this in spurts this year and it generally coincides with our big winning streaks. Paul is actually really good off the ball, much better than he gets credit for. Yes, I understand some times we have to put him on the ball, specifically late in the shot clock and in quarter ending situations to guarantee him a touch, but in general especially as he works through this slump I would try and curl him into jumpers as much as possible. He just doesn't have the off the dribble pull up working right now.

    3.) This one is tough because the whole team is kind of this muck right now, but he's gotta stop foul hunting. It's killing his transition D and it's rubbing off on Lance in a big way. Paul needs to realize the fouls will come if you attack the basket the right way. If you go up with the ball loose in your hands and hoping for the contact, you're going to get stripped or at the very least knocked off balance. The great players look for their fouls, absolutely, and they react when they get a rough call (See James, Lebron), but the key difference between a guy like Durant or Lebron and Paul right now is that KD and LBJ go up planning to make the shot and then getting the foul as a secondary or bonus. Paul right now is going up with the goal of getting the foul and making the shot is secondary. It MUST be the other way around. Lance was doing it last night too and it results in botched fast break layups because you're hoping for contact that isn't always going to come. Go up looking to finish the play strong and hit the shot first and foremost and the fouls will come.


    Those are my opinions on how Paul can and will continue to add to his offensive game.

    And as always remember he is 23 and it will make all of this much easier on you.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Really?
    I don't even know what to say to this. "PG had a few bad games, he is ****"
    Ugh.
    2013-2014
    The Lost Season

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Uhh no, you don't turn off your stars green light. He's in a slump. Chill man

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by DJVendetta View Post
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    In all seriousness though I have always been annoyed with how PG plays, but when he is on what can you say about it? As of late it's gotten bad. I just find it weird that when he is off he continues to SETTLE for the pull back mid-range jumper or force the issue on 3-pointers. This guy seems to never get to the free throw line anymore (statistically speaking you may correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just saying this off of observation). I know in any level of basketball that when you're shot is off then you either find ways to involve your teammates on offense more and contribute on defense, or you attack the basket so you can find your form at the free throw line. He's turning into the scared version of LeBron James almost in a way, you know he can attack (not as good yet, but still) but instead he keeps settling for those jumper even if he missed the previous 10.
    To be fair, he doesn't get the call when he goes to the rack.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    I don't think he shoots too much, I just think we need to harness his shot selection. We have GOT to find a way to get him some good clean looks, because his ISO game has been figured out a bit. I bet out of all the top players in the league, PG gets the least amount of easy looks per game. This is partially on Vogel. Our ball movement has become nill within the starting lineup.

    More than anything he needs to tone down the talking to the refs. They have completely tuned him out to the point that they aren't calling the few fouls that are occurring on the floor.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    To be fair, he doesn't get the call when he goes to the rack.
    That's what happens when you complain about EVERY call

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Vogel, turn off the green light,
    turn off the green light, Vogel,
    I dont care he is our best player of all time,
    just turn off the green light,
    he just isn't shooting well anymore, so,
    turn off the green light,
    Just turn off the green light,
    turn off the green light,
    Vooooggellllll


    Added: BTW, I don't endorse turning off the green light on PG. Just having fun.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 02-13-2014 at 01:19 PM.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    I agree, but this needs extended to Lance as well. Both of these guys are just young and need more direction from their coach then they're getting. Paul is shooting too much period. We have a huge advantage inside if we use it. If Paul and Lance are going to jack up 35-40 shots between them then we aren't using our big men. We're an elite team when we play from the inside out, we're average to good when we're a jump shooting team. Both Paul and Lance need to have their minutes shaved by around 5 minutes each as well but I'd go as far as to say we'd be a better team keeping Lance under 30 minutes.
    As the season has progressed I'm seeing a trend of giving too much freedom to both Lance and Paul which equals too little coaching.
    I've really liked Vogel to date but I'm starting to sour on his coaching style as of late.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    I don't understand how anyone in here can say PG is in a shooting slump. You watching the same games as me? He's forcing a lot and taking really bad shots. I'm hoping with more experience as the go to guy, he'll learn better shot selection, but he's been pretty brutal lately.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Uhh no, you don't turn off your stars green light. He's in a slump. Chill man
    Not a slump when this has been going on for 2 months.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    if a coach did do that it would be the worst thing he can do. That doesn't mean a coach shouldn't work with a player on shot selection and I am sure the coaches work with each player on shot selection extensively.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I agree, but this needs extended to Lance as well. Both of these guys are just young and need more direction from their coach then they're getting. Paul is shooting too much period. We have a huge advantage inside if we use it. If Paul and Lance are going to jack up 35-40 shots between them then we aren't using our big men. We're an elite team when we play from the inside out, we're average to good when we're a jump shooting team. Both Paul and Lance need to have their minutes shaved by around 5 minutes each as well but I'd go as far as to say we'd be a better team keeping Lance under 30 minutes.
    As the season has progressed I'm seeing a trend of giving too much freedom to both Lance and Paul which equals too little coaching.
    I've really liked Vogel to date but I'm starting to sour on his coaching style as of late.
    Lance has issues with turnovers and decision making. His FG shooting is fine
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    That's what happens when you complain about EVERY call
    Lebron.

    A shooter has to keep shooting in order to get out of their slump. This reaction to PG's struggles are ridiculous. Every player goes through bad times. He'll play his way out of it. Simple as that.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Vogel needs to find ways to get more efficient scorers like Hill, West, and Roy more shots
    If they did get more shots then they likely would not be as efficient scorers. There is a reason why on most teams the teams leading scorer doesn't have the best shooting % on the team.

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Pacers will be A-OK. Just a long season.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Paul needs to study some old Danny film
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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Vogel, turn off the green light,
    turn off the green light, Vogel,
    I dont care he is our best player of all time,
    just turn off the green light,
    he just isn't shooting well anymore, so,
    turn off the green light,
    Just turn off the green light,
    turn off the green light,
    Vooooggellllll
    to the tune of Roxanne, I assume?

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by CoolHand View Post
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    to the tune of Roxanne, I assume?
    Yea, I was bored sitting in my car.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Vogel, please turn off PG's green light

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Not a slump when this has been going on for 2 months.
    His problem is shot selection not number of shots

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