It's not a matter loyalty or disloyalty, just as it wasn't a matter of loyalty for Granger to play here through those lean years. He played because we paid him extremely well, and it was good business for him personally to do so. If there is a deal out there that makes us better in either the long or short terms, it would be bad business not to take it.
Yes, I am implying that our bench has been a lot more productive at several points during the season than you're giving them credit for.
The bench looked great for the first month of Danny's return. From that Houston game in December 20 until the start of the WC trip in Golden State in January 20 the bench was a large positive for us. Yes, the bench has been largely mediocre after that but that doesn't mean that they didn't have good runs as a unit.
Gamble1 already posted the stats I was referring to so I won't again, thanks Gamble for that.
Obviously the discrepancy in production is coming from Stephenson as the stats I am looking at would not add his production with that line-up while yours do. Which it is fair that you would add his production in those situations because he is the only starter that gets extended minutes with the bench. Still not sure how to feel about your stats versus the ones I've been following though. Do I look at the 5 man unit stats with Stephenson and feel relieved that it isn't as poor as my stats show and actually pretty solid, or do you still look at my stats and think our production from Player 6-14 (not going to count Bynum yet) is very poor and can still improve and thank god Stephenson is REALLY REALLY GOOD and plays with them.
As was mentioned above, haven't the Pacers been "actively shopping" Danny for years now? This rumor appears once a year at least.
I hope we don't trade him because I don't think we can get anything better for him. But if we trade him, I won't care. So long as if wouldn't lessen our ability to bring Lance back
Stop quoting people I have on ignore!
I just don't see how anyone gives up anything of value for Granger, especially considering the Pacers cannot take on bad contract. Gotta sign Lance.
In that sense, I don't see Granger getting traded.
I could see Cope/Scola/OJ getting traded. Possibly Hill/Ian in the offseason.
The entire draft. Love the picks of Turner, Young and trading for Christmas.
Signing Glen Robinson III
Trading for Budinger
Signing Monta Ellis
Signing Jordan Hill (not for the player, but for his deal)
Re-signing Stuckey and Allen
Just don't resign after the season. Problem solved
No but with everything else equal (what we would get for him in a trade, etc.) it seems like you are looking at a talent wash or, at best, a small upgrade. At that point, things like loyalty and what he has meant to the franchise are enough to tip the scales for me.
If there was a deal out there that clearly made us a better team and gave us a better chance at the title, I would be fine with moving him. But the types of deals that are realistic and bantied about in here...ehh, only one of them I would be happy with (Danny+fillers for Deng). Past that, I'd just as soon keep him.
I wouldn't do it personally, because I'd rather just push our cards in, play the season out, and try to win the title this year with what we have. But that is the kind of move that could definitely help us going forward. Loyalty to Granger, should have no bearing on the decision making process.
I don't want to make any deals that could possibly disrupt our chances at a title this year, and like you said, I don't think that deal helps us win a title.
You don't get many chances to win titles in the NBA. We have a golden opportunity this year to bring a championship to Indiana, and I think the team currently assembled can do that. Messing with team chemistry and making us weaker/smaller on the wing (that's my opinion) doesn't interest me. Not for a mid first round pick and extra cap space to lock up Lance. You worry about Lance in the offseason. You gun for a title now.
I have to admit to being intrigued by the idea of sending Danny and Orlando (and if they'd be interested, Copeland) to Cleveland to bring in Deng. Clearly a big boost to our bench, saves us money this summer, and it also means we could theoretically make Deng our plan B if Lance gets an offer too rich for our blood. He'd be our free agent now, and thus we could offer him a fair contract if we chose to let Lance get overpaid by someone else. You can absolutely play him with Paul George.
This trade makes us better for the championship run....
Pacers trade Solomon Hill, Luis Scola, Copeland, Granger
Lakers trade Nick Young, Pau Gasol, Wesley Johnson, Jodie Meeks
Cavs trade Dion Waiters, CJ Miles
Pacers acquire CJ Miles, Nick Young, Pau Gasol
Lakers acquire Waiters, Granger, Scola, Solo
Cavs acquire Wesley Johnson, Jodie Meeks, Copeland
A Waiters/Kobe back court would be deadly. Also, I think Waiters could mature as a player with vets like Kobe and Scola around him. Danny is an expiring. Solo is a good young piece.
Cavs need some insurance in case Deng splits. Meeks and Johnson are good to have in case he does. They also get a stretch 4 in Copeland.
Pacers bench now would be...
Last edited by Grimp; 02-12-2014 at 03:20 PM.
Noted. Here's a trade that guts our bench a bit less....
Pacers trade: Scola, Granger,
Lakers trade: Pau, Nick Young, Jodie Meeks, Steve Nash, Jordan Hill, and Wesley Johnson
Raptors trade: Kyle Lowry, Steve Novak
Pacers acquire Jodie Meeks and Pau Gasol
Lakers acquire Lowry, Novak, Granger, Scola
Raptors acquire Nick Young, Jordan Hill, Wesley Johnson, Steve Nash
Indiana's bench gets better.
Lakers need healthy bodies right now. Scola, Novak, Granger, and Lowry are all healthy. Plus, a Lowry/Kobe backcourt could attract some free agents to L.A. You could be seeing a Love/Lowry/Bryant team soon.
Jordan Hill + Nick Young are a good return for Kyle Lowry. Plus, Wesley Johnson who is a good young player and has played beyond his potential in a banged up Lakers squad this season. And as for Steve Nash, he gets to finish his career in Canada where he was born. He can back up Vasquez. Or start if he's healthy enough.
This has devolved into random trade speculation thread now.
summary of he facts: If the Pacers want to re-sign Lance, they need to add no salary in trade for next year or beyond. Thus any trade would be for an equally big, if not bigger, expiring contract. No reasonable possibilities exist, to my knowledge, other than Pao Gasol and Luol Deng. Neither seems reasonable, by any analysis that I've seen presented here.
So are we going to go on for another 193 posts cooking up far-fetched multiteam versions and posting our new dream Pacer lineup? Really?
The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).
I'm (maybe) back after being repetedly banned, merely for supporting a different NFL team than do certain forum moderators.
"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."