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Thread: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The Pacers will have paid him more than $60 million over the last 5 years. They owe him nothing more.
    True. That having been said, trading the guy away on the eve of our (we hope) first championship after he was our bright spot and best player in the dark years before our resurgence would really suck for him and for I think most fans as well who care about such things. And I think the front office wouldn't like it, either.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    True. That having been said, trading the guy away on the eve of our (we hope) first championship after he was our bright spot and best player in the dark years before our resurgence would really suck for him and for I think most fans as well who care about such things. And I think the front office wouldn't like it, either.
    Danny did say however when he returned, he'd understand if the team traded him, from a business standpoint.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Danny did say however when he returned, he'd understand if the team traded him, from a business standpoint.
    Well that's what a good pro is supposed to say.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    True. That having been said, trading the guy away on the eve of our (we hope) first championship after he was our bright spot and best player in the dark years before our resurgence would really suck for him and for I think most fans as well who care about such things. And I think the front office wouldn't like it, either.
    There are numerous reasons why trading him this season really make no sense, and why it almost certainly won't happen. Because he was a decent player on our bad teams, is definitely not a reason for it.

    It's not a matter loyalty or disloyalty, just as it wasn't a matter of loyalty for Granger to play here through those lean years. He played because we paid him extremely well, and it was good business for him personally to do so. If there is a deal out there that makes us better in either the long or short terms, it would be bad business not to take it.

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  9. #180
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by VideoVandal View Post
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    Recent bench struggles? Are you implying our bench has been productive at any point during this season? They struggled early in the year we were the worst 2nd quarter team in the league the first few months of the season and why we were always down at half. Our bench effeciency rate is 25th, our bench def. efficiency is 16th, our bench FG percent is 25th in the league. I am not harping on recent struggles I am harping on season long struggles. I was willing to forgive the 2nd unit early in the season and chalk it up to chemistry issues and that the unit would work itself out, but we are now almost at the all-star break and the bench is still a bottom 5 bench in the league in statistically it simply is not producing.
    Yes, I am implying that our bench has been a lot more productive at several points during the season than you're giving them credit for.

    The bench looked great for the first month of Danny's return. From that Houston game in December 20 until the start of the WC trip in Golden State in January 20 the bench was a large positive for us. Yes, the bench has been largely mediocre after that but that doesn't mean that they didn't have good runs as a unit.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwolf View Post
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    just curious, where are you getting your bench stats from? how are you comparing our bench with that of other teams?

    i can compare our most-played bench lineup (watson-stephenson-granger-scola-mahinmi), with say, OKC's most-played bench (jackson-fisher-lamb-collison-adams), which would be considered an above average bench in the nba. (if you disagree, please feel free to substitute that of another team here.)

    all stats from 82games.

    http://www.82games.com/1314/1314IND2.HTM
    http://www.82games.com/1314/1314OKC2.HTM

    IND: 117 min, 1.03 off rating, 0.97 def rating, +10, 0.448 eFG, 0.458 eFGa, -2 FT differential, 54.5% reb rate, +1% T/O differential
    OKC: 110 min, 1.03 off rating, 1.00 def rating, +8, 0.386 eFG, 0.409 eFGa, -13 FT differential, 52.5% reb rate, +3 T/O differential

    the stats seem to show at the very least our bench is just as good or better than OKC's in quite a few areas.
    Gamble1 already posted the stats I was referring to so I won't again, thanks Gamble for that.

    Obviously the discrepancy in production is coming from Stephenson as the stats I am looking at would not add his production with that line-up while yours do. Which it is fair that you would add his production in those situations because he is the only starter that gets extended minutes with the bench. Still not sure how to feel about your stats versus the ones I've been following though. Do I look at the 5 man unit stats with Stephenson and feel relieved that it isn't as poor as my stats show and actually pretty solid, or do you still look at my stats and think our production from Player 6-14 (not going to count Bynum yet) is very poor and can still improve and thank god Stephenson is REALLY REALLY GOOD and plays with them.

  11. #182
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    As was mentioned above, haven't the Pacers been "actively shopping" Danny for years now? This rumor appears once a year at least.

    I hope we don't trade him because I don't think we can get anything better for him. But if we trade him, I won't care. So long as if wouldn't lessen our ability to bring Lance back
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    I just don't see how anyone gives up anything of value for Granger, especially considering the Pacers cannot take on bad contract. Gotta sign Lance.

    In that sense, I don't see Granger getting traded.

    I could see Cope/Scola/OJ getting traded. Possibly Hill/Ian in the offseason.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Just don't resign after the season. Problem solved
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    There are numerous reasons why trading him this season really make no sense, and why it almost certainly won't happen. Because he was a decent player on our bad teams, is definitely not a reason for it.

    It's not a matter loyalty or disloyalty, just as it wasn't a matter of loyalty for Granger to play here through those lean years. He played because we paid him extremely well, and it was good business for him personally to do so. If there is a deal out there that makes us better in either the long or short terms, it would be bad business not to take it.
    No but with everything else equal (what we would get for him in a trade, etc.) it seems like you are looking at a talent wash or, at best, a small upgrade. At that point, things like loyalty and what he has meant to the franchise are enough to tip the scales for me.

    If there was a deal out there that clearly made us a better team and gave us a better chance at the title, I would be fine with moving him. But the types of deals that are realistic and bantied about in here...ehh, only one of them I would be happy with (Danny+fillers for Deng). Past that, I'd just as soon keep him.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    No but with everything else equal (what we would get for him in a trade, etc.) it seems like you are looking at a talent wash or, at best, a small upgrade. At that point, things like loyalty and what he has meant to the franchise are enough to tip the scales for me.

    If there was a deal out there that clearly made us a better team and gave us a better chance at the title, I would be fine with moving him. But the types of deals that are realistic and bantied about in here...ehh, only one of them I would be happy with (Danny+fillers for Deng). Past that, I'd just as soon keep him.
    What if it's a deal that like Granger/Copeland for Gordon/Sessions/1st round pick? It doesn't help us at all this year, but it nets us an extra $4 million or so in cap space to re-sign Lance this summer.

    I wouldn't do it personally, because I'd rather just push our cards in, play the season out, and try to win the title this year with what we have. But that is the kind of move that could definitely help us going forward. Loyalty to Granger, should have no bearing on the decision making process.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    What if it's a deal that like Granger/Copeland for Gordon/Sessions/1st round pick? It doesn't help us at all this year, but it nets us an extra $4 million or so in cap space to re-sign Lance this summer.

    I wouldn't do it personally, because I'd rather just push our cards in, play the season out, and try to win the title this year with what we have. But that is the kind of move that could definitely help us going forward. Loyalty to Granger, should have no bearing on the decision making process.
    I don't want to make any deals that could possibly disrupt our chances at a title this year, and like you said, I don't think that deal helps us win a title.

    You don't get many chances to win titles in the NBA. We have a golden opportunity this year to bring a championship to Indiana, and I think the team currently assembled can do that. Messing with team chemistry and making us weaker/smaller on the wing (that's my opinion) doesn't interest me. Not for a mid first round pick and extra cap space to lock up Lance. You worry about Lance in the offseason. You gun for a title now.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    I have to admit to being intrigued by the idea of sending Danny and Orlando (and if they'd be interested, Copeland) to Cleveland to bring in Deng. Clearly a big boost to our bench, saves us money this summer, and it also means we could theoretically make Deng our plan B if Lance gets an offer too rich for our blood. He'd be our free agent now, and thus we could offer him a fair contract if we chose to let Lance get overpaid by someone else. You can absolutely play him with Paul George.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I have to admit to being intrigued by the idea of sending Danny and Orlando (and if they'd be interested, Copeland) to Cleveland to bring in Deng. Clearly a big boost to our bench, saves us money this summer, and it also means we could theoretically make Deng our plan B if Lance gets an offer too rich for our blood. He'd be our free agent now, and thus we could offer him a fair contract if we chose to let Lance get overpaid by someone else. You can absolutely play him with Paul George.
    That would be a move that would be of serious interest to me.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

  22. #190

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    This trade makes us better for the championship run....

    Pacers trade Solomon Hill, Luis Scola, Copeland, Granger
    Lakers trade Nick Young, Pau Gasol, Wesley Johnson, Jodie Meeks
    Cavs trade Dion Waiters, CJ Miles


    Pacers acquire CJ Miles, Nick Young, Pau Gasol
    Lakers acquire Waiters, Granger, Scola, Solo
    Cavs acquire Wesley Johnson, Jodie Meeks, Copeland




    A Waiters/Kobe back court would be deadly. Also, I think Waiters could mature as a player with vets like Kobe and Scola around him. Danny is an expiring. Solo is a good young piece.


    Cavs need some insurance in case Deng splits. Meeks and Johnson are good to have in case he does. They also get a stretch 4 in Copeland.


    Pacers bench now would be...


    Pau
    Nick
    Bynum
    CJ Miles
    CJ Watson

  23. #191

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    That would be a move that would be of serious interest to me.
    The ball wouldn't move though. No one to push the ball like Lance does. I'd actually be in favor of, in a scenario like that..trading George Hill to a cap friendly team. And taking back young talent on cheap deals. To fill out the bench. And then re-signing Lance. For example, sending GH to the Sixers for Tony Wroten. Who is at 1 million + for 3 years. Versus GH who is at 8 million for 3 years.


    West
    Deng
    Hibbert
    George
    Lance
    Last edited by Grimp; 02-12-2014 at 04:20 PM.

  24. #192

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    This trade makes us better for the championship run....

    Pacers trade Solomon Hill, Luis Scola, Copeland, Granger
    Lakers trade Nick Young, Pau Gasol, Wesley Johnson, Jodie Meeks
    Cavs trade Dion Waiters, CJ Miles


    Pacers acquire CJ Miles, Nick Young, Pau Gasol
    Lakers acquire Waiters, Granger, Scola, Solo
    Cavs acquire Wesley Johnson, Jodie Meeks, Copeland




    A Waiters/Kobe back court would be deadly. Also, I think Waiters could mature as a player with vets like Kobe and Scola around him. Danny is an expiring. Solo is a good young piece.


    Cavs need some insurance in case Deng splits. Meeks and Johnson are good to have in case he does. They also get a stretch 4 in Copeland.


    Pacers bench now would be...


    Pau
    Nick
    Bynum
    CJ Miles
    CJ Watson
    Id rather not trade the majority of our bench, one of the best things about our bench is our chemistry, and trading 4 players doesn't really help that. Plus I like Solomon Hill a lot as a future piece, he will likely replace Danny next season

  25. #193

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Id rather not trade the majority of our bench, one of the best things about our bench is our chemistry, and trading 4 players doesn't really help that. Plus I like Solomon Hill a lot as a future piece, he will likely replace Danny next season



    Noted. Here's a trade that guts our bench a bit less....




    Pacers trade: Scola, Granger,
    Lakers trade: Pau, Nick Young, Jodie Meeks, Steve Nash, Jordan Hill, and Wesley Johnson
    Raptors trade: Kyle Lowry, Steve Novak




    Pacers acquire Jodie Meeks and Pau Gasol

    Lakers acquire Lowry, Novak, Granger, Scola

    Raptors acquire Nick Young, Jordan Hill, Wesley Johnson, Steve Nash






    Indiana's bench gets better.


    Pau
    Cope
    Bynum
    Meeks
    CJ



    Lakers need healthy bodies right now. Scola, Novak, Granger, and Lowry are all healthy. Plus, a Lowry/Kobe backcourt could attract some free agents to L.A. You could be seeing a Love/Lowry/Bryant team soon.


    Jordan Hill + Nick Young are a good return for Kyle Lowry. Plus, Wesley Johnson who is a good young player and has played beyond his potential in a banged up Lakers squad this season. And as for Steve Nash, he gets to finish his career in Canada where he was born. He can back up Vasquez. Or start if he's healthy enough.

  26. #194

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    This has devolved into random trade speculation thread now.

    summary of he facts: If the Pacers want to re-sign Lance, they need to add no salary in trade for next year or beyond. Thus any trade would be for an equally big, if not bigger, expiring contract. No reasonable possibilities exist, to my knowledge, other than Pao Gasol and Luol Deng. Neither seems reasonable, by any analysis that I've seen presented here.

    So are we going to go on for another 193 posts cooking up far-fetched multiteam versions and posting our new dream Pacer lineup? Really?
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  28. #195

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    This has devolved into random trade speculation thread now.

    summary of he facts: If the Pacers want to re-sign Lance, they need to add no salary in trade for next year or beyond. Thus any trade would be for an equally big, if not bigger, expiring contract. No reasonable possibilities exist, to my knowledge, other than Pao Gasol and Luol Deng. Neither seems reasonable, by any analysis that I've seen presented here.

    So are we going to go on for another 193 posts cooking up far-fetched multiteam versions and posting our new dream Pacer lineup? Really?

    At least until the dunk contest starts!

  29. #196
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I like that trade. Pau Gasol would be a difference maker off the bench. I do worry about the backup wing. Butler has played well, but I don't know if he is ready for the pressure of a deep playoff run. Almost too late to throw Butler in that role
    When it matters, in the playoffs, the rotations really tighten up. At that point, I could see PG, Lance, CJ and Hill covering the 1-3 spots. They are all very versatile players.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    When it matters, in the playoffs, the rotations really tighten up. At that point, I could see PG, Lance, CJ and Hill covering the 1-3 spots. They are all very versatile players.
    We would be very small at the SF position if we did that. Granted PG will be playing most of those minutes, if he gets in foul trouble..it's over.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    We would be very small at the SF position if we did that. Granted PG will be playing most of those minutes, if he gets in foul trouble..it's over.
    Lance is oversized as a SG so we'd be ok with him at SF.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Lance is oversized as a SG so we'd be ok with him at SF.
    Idk..at 6'4-6'5, he's a tad undersized height wise. His height deficiency is maximized more when flanked by a 6'2 SG. Our greatest attribute against other teams is our size.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    When it matters, in the playoffs, the rotations really tighten up. At that point, I could see PG, Lance, CJ and Hill covering the 1-3 spots. They are all very versatile players.

    Scola and Granger for Gasol and Meeks works. We'd have enough to sign Lance if you add our trade exception from the Plumlee trade, Gasol's expiring, and Meeks expiring.

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