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Thread: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

  1. #76

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I can't imagine anybody who has watched Granger play this season giving up anything of value for him.
    Therein lies the rub, and pretty much my first/only reaction to this news.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    Well, I'm just think of what type of team would be interested in Danny('s Contract, cause that's what we're really trading).

    Hey, wouldya look at that? The Pacers have a growing star coming off his rookie deal...
    Sorry...you lost me here. Could you clarify what you are saying here?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    The only thing I could think of is if Granger is causing problems or asked to be traded.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath
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    I can't imagine anybody who has watched Granger play this season giving up anything of value for him.
    This assumes that the purpose of trading Granger is to get back anything of REAL value.

    How do we know that the purpose of trading Granger isn't to do what you ( and I ) are suggesting.....dump Copeland's contract while not getting any contracts beyond the 2013-2014?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  5. #80

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    For all the reasons we've discussed ad nausium, the likelihood of the Pacers trading Danny are pretty small. There is a much greater chance of either A) Lowe is just making stuff up or B) someone in another front office is lying to him.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    For all the reasons we've discussed ad nausium, the likelihood of the Pacers trading Danny are pretty small.
    I agree with this only because I think that it would be very difficult for Bird to find a trade that involves a huge # of Expiring Contracts in return for Granger+Copeland. To me, the reason why Granger won't likely be traded will partially because Bird won't find any takers....but more for "logistic" reasons...as in finding $17+ mil in Expiring Contracts.

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    There is a much greater chance of either A) Lowe is just making stuff up or B) someone in another front office is lying to him.
    Why would Lowe make something like this up?

    Regardless of why Bird would put Granger on the block ( dump Copeland or get back assets for him ), why wouldn't Bird look to improve the Team over the short or long-term with the only asset that he sees as having SOME value while not losing any part of the core that he wants to keep?

    GMs do this all the time.....see what value that their Player has on the Market while trying to "get something" for a Player that may not be in the Pacers long-term interests.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-11-2014 at 05:53 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  8. #82

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Danny's an expiring. That's good enough for foolish teams who have spent themselves into the bowels of luxury tax/repeater hell. Anyways, to replace Danny, you could trade Solo to Denver for Jordan Hamilton.

    Danny and OJ to Cleveland for Deng. Works.

    Scola
    Hamilton
    Bynum
    Deng
    CJ

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Sorry...you lost me here. Could you clarify what you are saying here?
    I'm saying that the Pacers are the best potential landing spot for a piece of trade bait like Danny. The best value the Pacers can get out of Danny at this point is his salary off the books. This is accomplished by letting him walk this offseason. Now, if we can get nothing but expiring contracts back for Danny and say... Copeland, that would be great. I don't see that partner out there though. We can only really "lose" in a Danny trade.

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  12. #84

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    . . . Why would Lowe make something like this up?

    Regardless of why Bird would put Granger on the block ( dump Copeland or get back assets for him ), why wouldn't Bird look to improve the Team over the short or long-term with the only asset that he sees as having SOME value while not losing any part of the core that he wants to keep?

    GMs do this all the time.....see what value that Granger has on the Market while trying to "get something" for a Player that may not be in the Pacers long-term interests.
    This may just be a question of semantics, but judging the market for a guy is different than actively shopping a guy. Lowe is making it sound like Bird is calling everyone and trying to trade Danny. Not just finding out what the market is.

    As to why Lowe might make something up, that is easy. To get people to read his column. To sound more knowledgeable than he is. Someone on another team exaggerated a conversation with Bird. Lowe's trying to scoop other writers. All the reasons sports writers have for making stuff up.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    I'm saying that the Pacers are the best potential landing spot for a piece of trade bait like Danny. The best value the Pacers can get out of Danny at this point is his salary off the books. This is accomplished by letting him walk this offseason. Now, if we can get nothing but expiring contracts back for Danny and say... Copeland, that would be great. I don't see that partner out there though. We can only really "lose" in a Danny trade.
    Not exactly....as you said...the best Value that Granger has at this point is not to simply let his contract expire....it is used as sweetner to dump Copeland's contract.

    "Lose" is a relative term in this case. If it is possible to find a trade that involves Granger and Copeland while getting back nothing but an Expiring Contract ( which I agree would be near impossible )....then I think that it accomplishes the goal of making it possible to re-sign Lance ( a "Win" for me ) without being forced to dump GH or simply not picking up Scola's contract.

    I was always expecting that it will cost the Pacers something to re-sign Lance.......the question is how much Bird would have to pay to get it done. I'd rather lose Granger and Copeland for nothing than not pick up Scola's salary in 2014-2015 or dump GH for nothing.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  14. #86

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    . . . Regardless of why Bird would put Granger on the block ( dump Copeland or get back assets for him ), why wouldn't Bird look to improve the Team over the short or long-term with the only asset that he sees as having SOME value while not losing any part of the core that he wants to keep? . . .
    I don't understand why you asked me this question, since I didn't address it in my original post. But I would be willing to bet my house on Bird being willing to trade pretty much anyone on the team for the right price.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    This may just be a question of semantics, but judging the market for a guy is different than actively shopping a guy. Lowe is making it sound like Bird is calling everyone and trying to trade Danny. Not just finding out what the market is.

    As to why Lowe might make something up, that is easy. To get people to read his column. To sound more knowledgeable than he is. Someone on another team exaggerated a conversation with Bird. Lowe's trying to scoop other writers. All the reasons sports writers have for making stuff up.
    Maybe I worded it incorrectly.

    It's possible that Lowe is exaggerating Bird's interest in trading Granger for the very reasons that you mention.

    But it is not unheard of GMs to see if they "get something" in return for a Player that has an Expiring Contract and is not considered in the long-term plans for a Team.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  17. #88

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Our GM's Kevin Pritchard. I'm surprised we don't hear rumors like this about our guys every week, the guy's always on the phone.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    I feel like the media just wants some hypothetical big move from a contender to ponder over and discuss on TV until the trade deadline. Danny Granger and the Pacers just fit what they're looking for.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I don't understand why you asked me this question, since I didn't address it in my original post. But I would be willing to bet my house on Bird being willing to trade pretty much anyone on the team for the right price.
    I pose the question to your post because you suggest that Lowe would make something like this up.

    I don't think that there is a reason why Lowe would make it up since there are IMHO legit reasons why Bird would put Granger on the block ( hence the question ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    I agree that the only realistic to move Granger is to be able to unload Cope's contract to come up with cap room for Lance.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    We should trade him to a team desperate to shed salary so they have cap space to re-sign a growing star coming off their rookie deal.
    I got the sarcasm even if no one else did.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua
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    We should trade him to a team desperate to shed salary so they have cap space to re-sign a growing star coming off their rookie deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    I got the sarcasm even if no one else did.


    Okay...now I get it too
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    I feel like the media just wants some hypothetical big move from a contender to ponder over and discuss on TV until the trade deadline. Danny Granger and the Pacers just fit what they're looking for.
    I'm not saying that Granger would be that "big" move....but I REALLY think that there will be some "Buyers" out there ( Bobcats, Suns, Rockets ) that will be looking to make a huge trade for some Impact Players from "Sellers" looking to improve their Financial situation ( beyond this season ) or look to get some assets.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    If you move Granger, you need A) An expiring coming back B) Another wing....at that point, isn't it just better to keep Granger?

    The only two clear upgrades would be Deng and Pierce, but I can't see either one of their team's moving them.

  29. #96

    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    This may just be a question of semantics, but judging the market for a guy is different than actively shopping a guy. Lowe is making it sound like Bird is calling everyone and trying to trade Danny. Not just finding out what the market is.

    As to why Lowe might make something up, that is easy. To get people to read his column. To sound more knowledgeable than he is. Someone on another team exaggerated a conversation with Bird. Lowe's trying to scoop other writers. All the reasons sports writers have for making stuff up.
    It's possible Lowe is making it up, but I'd consider it unlikely for a couple of reasons:

    1) Lowe is not a reporter. He's more of an analyst type who only tends to share things he's learned if it's germane to the article that he's writing. He doesn't quote sources all that often, so it lends credibility to him when he does.

    2) Any value he gets by putting in the trade Granger note is mostly lost when he goes out of his way to point out that the Pacers would have a very difficult time finding a trade partner that fits their needs. It's pretty silly to make something that isn't that controversial up only to then stress that it isn't likely to happen. He also has dismissed trading Granger every time Bill Simmons brings it up for example for the same reasons.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    If you move Granger, you need A) An expiring coming back B) Another wing....at that point, isn't it just better to keep Granger?

    The only two clear upgrades would be Deng and Pierce, but I can't see either one of their team's moving them.
    You're assuming that that the purpose of moving Granger is purely to get back assets and what you mention ( another Wing ).

    What if one of the main goals to move Granger is to get ( A ) an expiring contract coming back, ( B ) another Wing and ( C ) dump Copeland. At that point....do you think that Bird would do that?

    But that's the problem.....we have no idea what would be the reason why Bird would consider moving Granger....either as sweetner to move Copeland ( for long-term Cap Relief ) or to simply get some assets in return for a Player that they do not intend to keep for the long term.

    By the way.....I don't think that it would make any sense for Bird to simply move Granger ( without moving Copeland ) just to see if Bird can get some "prospect" back along with an Expiring Contract. I consider re-signing Granger the "consolation prize" if the Pacers aren't able to re-sign Lance.....moving Granger for nothing but a prospect would not put the Pacers in a better position to re-sign Lance ( which I think is the ultimate goal between now and the Offseason ). The only reason IMHO to trade Granger is to dump Copeland's contract while getting back no long-term salary.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    You only trade Granger under two circumstanced. The first being it is the only way to move Copeland for an expiring. The second being you have conceded you won't be able to re-sign Lance, and this past 10 games (ignoring that 10 game period where Danny was playing extremely well) is the best Danny will ever be again so you try to get a young promising asset from a team that needs cap space. I think all in all this falls more in line with some lower level front office guy exaggerating a phone call to simply judge interest. I would imagine most smart GMs do that regularly with at least 2/3rds of their players, just most players don't have name recognition like Granger. Either way I think you are a fool to try and trade Granger if you want to give this team the best chance to win a championship this season. I really do not think it would be difficult to trade Copeland, and maybe a second round pick or two for a second round pick or two especially around draft time.

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  34. #99
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I really, really doubt that is the case.
    Why do you really doubt that is the case? If you take all of your biases and past loyalty aside and look just at current production it isn't hard to see that in a role where we ask for someone to make shots Granger is not and Butler is. If we trade Granger I do not think it would be for a wing like some here suspect. I think it would be to upgrade another spot and clearing time in the rotation for Butler again. As much as I love Granger and what he has done for this orginization, the painful truth maybe that he just isn't even an upgrade to Rasual Butler anymore. Also why does everyone think we are set at back up PG and PF? Just because those were our 2 big bench acquisitions this off-season the sign of a great GM is admitting when he is wrong and fixing the situation and the bottom line might be that Scola just isn't that good anymore and that CJ doesn't fit our system (as much grief as DJ Augustin got last year CJ has some what been given a free pass because of the teams record but he was supposed to be a shot maker on a bench that desperately needs one and he just hasn't been).

    I've been following the NBA rumor mill pretty closely for the Pacers and the names that come up are Kyle Lowry (this one I just don't see possible makes no sense for Toronto), Gary Neal (He has just been a miserable fit with the Bucks so far yet has been a proven contributor on a good team might make sense), Terrance Ross (again not sure why they'd trade him for Danny), and Jimmer (Larry has apparently been trying to acquire him for a season and a half now and with CJ shooting a near career low of 33 percent from downtown maybe he is looking to bring in a guy he thinks Lance can pass to that will hit it)....I do think the Pacers are actively looking to trade him just my gut feeling but I also just don't think the stars will align to where we both get something back that helps us this year and we keep money off the books for Lance this off-season. Danny will most likely still be a Pacer post deadline.
    Last edited by VideoVandal; 02-11-2014 at 07:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe - Pacers actively shopping Granger

    If the report is accurate its signals

    A) Pacers are not interesting in re-signing Granger if Lance does walk

    B) Pacers want a backup plan in place if Lance cannot be re-signed.

    would hate to see Danny go but if the player replacing him is Deng, you have to make that deal in case Lance signs a max elsewhere.

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