Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 75

Thread: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

  1. #1
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Angry what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Yes I know we have a great team record. Yes I am aware we are the best defensive basketball team in the history of the NBA. But we no longer have an excuse for the offensive inefficiencies and scoring droughts this team is incapable of avoiding.

    No longer is it an excuse that Coach Vogel has not implemented his offense. No longer is it an excuse that this team has a revolving door of player personnel. No longer is it an excuse that this team is young when two of our core players have multi all star appearances.

    Pacers can ill afford to go six minutes at a time without "buckets." Coach Vogel has to figure out how this team can score more consistently or it will cost us in the playoffs.


    We cannot rely on George Hill scoring 37, DWEST not missing a shot, and cool Rasual carrying our 2nd unit. Before anyone chirps about Bynum we cannot rely on him to even see the court or be apart of this team after March 1.

    These BS excuses about Paul George being tired is a cop out. He is playing as many minutes as most stars in the NBA and its not an excuse that he has to guard the other teams best player. I highly doubt you would hear Kobe say well I sucked on offense because I was focusing on D. BS. Sure a game here or game there Paul George is going to struggle but were going on about 10 games now in a row. The weariness of looking forward to the all star break is complete crap as well.


    We have 4 current all star level players in our starting lineup, we have 2 former all star level players and soon to be 3 in our second unit. Our Defense is so darn good it should be dictating our offensive domination as well and it has at times but no where near the consistent level we are going to need in order for this Franchise to hang a BANNER from the rafters of the Fieldhouse.


    George Hill has proven he is a capable scorer way before last nights offensive explosion. For the life of me I cannot figure out why he is not more consistent even if he is playing unselfishly. Right now I have no idea where Paul Georges shooting touch has gone to. And Roy Hibbert at times has simply become very hesitant to score in the post due to lack of balance and poor footwork on the block. The second unit is still a work in progress so I can live and let live with them until the playoffs roll around but our starting 5 has got to find a way to score the ball consistently.

    Lets not even take into account that this team despite the chemistry we have is still a turnover machine on the road and against elite competition. Listen, I get players are going to have off nights, PG, Luis, and even DWEST at times but we are simply too darn talented to have 6 minute scoring droughts every other road game or against elite competition.


    Whose to blame for the inconsistent lack of scoring production. Is it Coach Vogel or are the players simply not executing.


    Point blank, we are too darn talented with the first and second unit to be an average offensive team! Coach Vogel must find a way for our offense to score points in a more consistent manner or it may come back to bite us when it matters most.

    Anyone have a valid clue what the hell is wrong with our offense excluding the turnover issues.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PacersPride For This Useful Post:


  3. #2

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    If anything our defense has been the problem as of late

  4. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Mad-Mad-Mario For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Custom User Titleist
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacer Purgatory Praying for Paul
    Posts
    3,559
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    A team with multiple offensive initiators who are scorers are going to tend to freestyle more, make the opposing defense work less, and be more likely to make bad decisions.

    Also, it takes a huge amount of energy to play defense at the level the Pacers do. That leaves less energy to get lift on shots, slightly less crisp cuts and passes, and more likelihood of taking chances due to a little mental fatigue.

    Finally, when a team doesn't have a lot of willing passers, it becomes even easier to defend because dribbling the ball cannot possibly move the ball as quickly from one spot to another as proper passing amongst players who move with a purpose can.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Brad8888 For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    I do not want to place the onus on Roy alone. However, for a team that prides itself in "smashmouth" basketball and an "inside out" offense Roy has yet to prove he can be a consistent option for this team on the block and it concerns me significantly.

    If Roy were getting double teamed I would have no gripe with it, but for the most part teams are not doubling to prevent Roy from scoring in the lane. Again, its not just Roy, but at this time I expect more of a low post presence from him and were not getting it.

    I hope after last night Hill realizes this team needs him to be more assertive offensively.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PacersPride For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fredonia, NY
    Posts
    1,346

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    We are fine.

  10. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to BenR1990 For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  11. #6
    Batman's New Side Kick Psyren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Well part of the issue is elementary basketball...too often we have 4 guys just standing in one spot waiting for the guy with the ball to do something.

    You don't have to know much about basketball to know that rarely works (Sometimes works with LBJ, but even then is a bad offensive system).

    The other is turnovers. Passing to guys who aren't looking, or trying to pass into or dribble through traffic.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Psyren For This Useful Post:


  13. #7

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    This thread is long overdue.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CJ Jones For This Useful Post:


  15. #8
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We are fine.
    Ranked 20th in the league in overall offense behind juggernauts like the LA Lakers (w/out Kobe), Wizards, and Pelicans. If below average is considered "fine" then we got nothing to be concerned about.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...rison-per-game

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to PacersPride For This Useful Post:


  17. #9
    THE WITCH IS DEAD!!! Coopdog23's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Da Bank
    Posts
    2,911

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    yeah cause 113 points is a real issue
    "We want Miami"

  18. #10
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fredonia, NY
    Posts
    1,346

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ranked 20th in the league in overall offense behind juggernauts like the LA Lakers (w/out Kobe), Wizards, and Pelicans. If below average is considered "fine" then we got nothing to be concerned about.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...rison-per-game
    We play a slower style of basketball, especially when it comes to running our offense. We don't jack up shots early in the shot clock, don't really run a lot of fast break, and primarily play a half-court offense. Sure, we could be like the Lakers, Pelicans, and Wizards and put up some really cool numbers on offense, but our defensive production would suffer drastically. Those teams put up numbers on offense because they have little to no defense. Outscoring (or outchucking) their opponent is their only chance to win games.

  19. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BenR1990 For This Useful Post:


  20. #11

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Lack of a pick and roll game is a problem IMO. Roy's almost useless in this action, and West's more of a pop guy. I hate to say it, but I believe if we had a Gortat or even R. Lopez out there our offense would be much better.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 02-08-2014 at 08:05 PM.

  21. #12
    Member Indra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    435

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    You ask a question, and in the process say you "don't want to hear" all of the answers. PG plays defense harder than Kobe. PG plays a ton of minutes. We scored a season high last night and beat the leagues best offense. Every team goes through offensive droughts. It's the nature of basketball. And the thing is you CAN count on GHill to score, or West, even Rasual Butler. That's why we win so many games. It's never going to be one guy every night carrying the load. Our offense isn't "prolific" because there are almost no teams in the history of the NBA that are the best defense AND offense in the league.

    We have the best record in the league and people are still complaining about it.

  22. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Indra For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  23. #13

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    I imagine if we add a scorer off the bench and maybe get Lowry at point guard, that would change. Also Lance and PG are still young. In 3 years they might be averaging 20+ PPG. Lance certainly has the capability. He needs to work this Summer with multiple shooting coaches. So he can knock down that jumper and 3 with ease.

  24. #14
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We play a slower style of basketball, especially when it comes to running our offense. We don't jack up shots early in the shot clock, don't really run a lot of fast break, and primarily play a half-court offense. Sure, we could be like the Lakers, Pelicans, and Wizards and put up some really cool numbers on offense, but our defensive production would suffer drastically. Those teams put up numbers on offense because they have little to no defense. Outscoring (or outchucking) their opponent is their only chance to win games.
    So in essence our defense is only considered elite due to the fact we play at a snails pace offensively and distort/skew the numbers? I see your point and it is valid. As a team we are 26th in the league in FG attempts.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...GoalsAttempted

    Which could be due to the fact we make other teams work harder for shots as well which in turn slows our offense down. Interesting per the stats above, OKC averages only one more shot per game than us (ranked 19th) and scores approximately 7 more pts a game. This is a team without Westbrook which skews things because they have had to slow tempo with him out.

    My point regarding the Lakers was talent wise they have been without Nash, Kobe, and Pau has missed time.. given they are a fast break team but no where near the talent we have, same holds true for bottom feeders like Pelicans and Wizards.

    Spurs play half court as well and are ranked in the top 10. One could assume since we play in the weak Eastern Conference our offense would be a little higher than 20th overall.

  25. #15
    This must be a bad dream.
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not really where I want to be.
    Posts
    1,372
    Mood

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    We currently have one the best (if not the best) basketball teams in the
    world, are at the top of the NBA standings, and are widely recognised as
    being a top contender for the NBA championship and you're going to sit
    there and ***** about it?

    Unreal.
    "I've been through the fire, and what the fire doesn't destroy it hardens...
    and I'm hardened!
    " - Baron Von Raschke

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RamBo_Lamar For This Useful Post:


  27. #16
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You ask a question, and in the process say you "don't want to hear" all of the answers. PG plays defense harder than Kobe. PG plays a ton of minutes. We scored a season high last night and beat the leagues best offense. Every team goes through offensive droughts. It's the nature of basketball. And the thing is you CAN count on GHill to score, or West, even Rasual Butler. That's why we win so many games. It's never going to be one guy every night carrying the load. Our offense isn't "prolific" because there are almost no teams in the history of the NBA that are the best defense AND offense in the league.

    We have the best record in the league and people are still complaining about it.
    I stated "no excuses." Big difference. How certain are you PG plays harder D than Kobe??? All the while Kobe has a lot more offensive responsibility than PG.

    Forgive me but no one in the NBA or sports for that matter hang BANNERS for the "best record."

    Maybe some of you should revisit the last time we played the Heat as only one example, were up 15 at one time and our offense didn't score for about 10 minutes straight in that game give or take, and we lost.


    Let me summarize then: the fact we no longer play JOB ball yet have way more talent than those teams could ever dream of excuse the fact that this team is average offensively.

    Fair enough.


    If we got beat last night I wonder if some of you all would be singing the same tune. It took 37 from GHILL and near perfection from DWEST to pull that one out of the fire. I simply expect more from this team offensively at this point in the season and in order to win a BANNER were going to have to avoid going six minutes or longer without a bucket.

  28. #17
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Someone mentioned pace, I partially agree with this. Despite being 20th in offense, we still have the best point differential in the NBA at +8.1. However, as almost anyone can see, our offense is stagnant at times. It's not a problem now, because we can survive due to our historically good defense. I think a lot of is it basic movement without the ball. When the ball is moving in our offense, it is a thing of beauty. Quinn said it well yesterday, just make the easy play. That West pick and pop jumper is there almost all the time, and it feels like he hits it at at least 50%.

    This is just a random thought, but I really like that we have seen a variety of end of quarter plays of late. Instead of just straight Paul iso, we will see off ball action, and recently, it seems as though it has been very successful in terms of catching defenses off guard.
    @qandrews9428

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to boombaby1987 For This Useful Post:


  30. #18
    Member MiaDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    1,657

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If we got beat last night I wonder if some of you all would be singing the same tune. It took 37 from GHILL and near perfection from DWEST to pull that one out of the fire. I simply expect more from this team offensively at this point in the season and in order to win a BANNER were going to have to avoid going six minutes or longer without a bucket.
    The use of last nights game to further your argument may not be wise. We put up 103 in regulation, that would put us in the top 10 in ppg. Its more an issue with our D, or lack there of. If we were wining games 79-70 then you could say we have a severe O issue. I'd imagine if you took out the "garbage" time where we were blowing teams out our PPG would be a bit better.

  31. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MiaDragon For This Useful Post:


  32. #19
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, until we hang a BANNER you are correct. I am not going to accept that this team has zero room for improvement. Those of you who disagree and believe this team is as good as it can be can simply post elsewhere if it upsets you that much.

    For now:

    I expect Roy Hibbert to be more of a force offensively.
    I expect PG to produce even when his outside jumper is not falling.. because elite players find a way to score in a multitude of ways.
    I expect Hill to not disappear next game.
    DWEST BAMF. nuff said.
    I expect our second unit to be one of the best in the league and dominate other teams.

    Offensively, I believe this team is capable of more.

    Forgive me for high expectations and considering our 20th ranked offense as an area of concern that could hinder a BANNER being raised.
    You can't have every starter play out of their mind. If Hibbert was averaging 18, and Hill was averaging 15, and it sounds like you want PG to score 25 a night, you are looking at like 85 ppg just by our starters. That just isn't realistic. We are never going to give up 90 points per game and average 108. We would go down as the most dominating NBA team in the history of the game.
    @qandrews9428

  33. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to boombaby1987 For This Useful Post:


  34. #20
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,035

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I highly doubt you would hear Kobe say well I sucked on offense because I was focusing on D.
    That's obvious since the last time Kobe was focusing on D was ages ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Anyone have a valid clue what the hell is wrong with our offense excluding the turnover issues.
    Actually, our turnover issues are our problem.

    Take a look at that -> http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat...ing-percentage

    We are #12 in TS%. That indicates that shooting is not our problem. In fact, we are doing a pretty good job at connecting when we actually attempt a shot.

    On the other hand, we are #21 in Turnovers per Possession (I'm using per possession instead of per game because it is adjusted for pace) -> http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat...per-possession

    It's easy to see that it's the turnovers that are bringing our ORTG down. If we were able to attempt more shots then our ORTG would be better since we seem quite capable of making those shots.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  35. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  36. #21
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,035

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ranked 20th in the league in overall offense behind juggernauts like the LA Lakers (w/out Kobe), Wizards, and Pelicans. If below average is considered "fine" then we got nothing to be concerned about.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...rison-per-game
    That's PPG. PPG is a very poor way to compare a team's overall offense. Offensive Efficiency is a much better metric -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PQVmydtMM

    We are still below average at that (#19), obviously.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  37. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  38. #22
    High Flyers ThA HoyA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pasco, wa
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,513

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    The great part of the team is that anyone can lead the team in scoring but that's also the downfall because it changes every game, in order to have consistent offensive games from players they need to establish rythym.

    I know Roy can improve his offense but doesn't get consistent touches to get a rythym that's part on him and part on the coach. At the same time this team/coach needs to decided if we are an in-out team.

    Look at west numbers before he was consistently getting looks, now he's gotten consistent touches and has created good rythym.

    turnovers are the biggest factor is a below average offense, and they continue to not put enough emphasis on it. At least during the game it seems like it.
    Last edited by ThA HoyA; 02-08-2014 at 09:23 PM.

  39. The Following User Says Thank You to ThA HoyA For This Useful Post:


  40. #23
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Nothing. This is our offense. We have some defiencies. Is that news?

  41. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Unclebuck For This Useful Post:


  42. #24
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,035

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As a team we are 26th in the league in FG attempts.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...GoalsAttempted
    And that's a very valid point indeed. We are doing a quite good job at hitting the shots that we attempt but at times we don't attempt enough of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    One could assume since we play in the weak Eastern Conference our offense would be a little higher than 20th overall.
    That would be a very poor assumption, though.

    It's true that the East is weaker than the West but that doesn't mean that Eastern teams are weaker defensively than Western ones.

    Take a look at that -> http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/tea...ff/order/false

    Let's see what happens 20 through 30:

    20) Brooklyn
    21) Portland
    22) New York
    23) Cleveland
    24) Dallas
    25) New Orleans
    26) Los Angeles (Lakers)
    27) Philadelphia
    28) Sacramento
    29) Milwaukee
    30) Utah

    We can see 5 Eastern teams (Brooklyn, New York, Cleveland, Philadelphia and Milwaukee) and 6 Western teams (Portland, Dallas, New Orleans, Los Angeles, Sacramento and Utah).

    Let's see what's happening 1 through 10 as well:

    1) Indiana
    2) Chicago
    3) Golden State (yes, they are very good defensively, actually)
    4) Oklahoma City
    5) San Antonio
    6) Charlotte
    7) Toronto
    8) Houston
    9) Washington
    10) Clippers

    As you can see it's 5-5.

    That indicates one simple thing. There are good defensive teams and there are bad defensive teams. It doesn't matter if a team is in the East or the West. There are good defensive teams in both conferences. Being in the East doesn't give a team any kind of advantage in scoring.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  43. The Following User Says Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  44. #25
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,035

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How certain are you PG plays harder D than Kobe???
    Absolutely certain. It's a well known fact that Kobe in particular has been dogging it defensively for years.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  45. The Following User Says Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •