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Thread: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

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    Angry what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Yes I know we have a great team record. Yes I am aware we are the best defensive basketball team in the history of the NBA. But we no longer have an excuse for the offensive inefficiencies and scoring droughts this team is incapable of avoiding.

    No longer is it an excuse that Coach Vogel has not implemented his offense. No longer is it an excuse that this team has a revolving door of player personnel. No longer is it an excuse that this team is young when two of our core players have multi all star appearances.

    Pacers can ill afford to go six minutes at a time without "buckets." Coach Vogel has to figure out how this team can score more consistently or it will cost us in the playoffs.


    We cannot rely on George Hill scoring 37, DWEST not missing a shot, and cool Rasual carrying our 2nd unit. Before anyone chirps about Bynum we cannot rely on him to even see the court or be apart of this team after March 1.

    These BS excuses about Paul George being tired is a cop out. He is playing as many minutes as most stars in the NBA and its not an excuse that he has to guard the other teams best player. I highly doubt you would hear Kobe say well I sucked on offense because I was focusing on D. BS. Sure a game here or game there Paul George is going to struggle but were going on about 10 games now in a row. The weariness of looking forward to the all star break is complete crap as well.


    We have 4 current all star level players in our starting lineup, we have 2 former all star level players and soon to be 3 in our second unit. Our Defense is so darn good it should be dictating our offensive domination as well and it has at times but no where near the consistent level we are going to need in order for this Franchise to hang a BANNER from the rafters of the Fieldhouse.


    George Hill has proven he is a capable scorer way before last nights offensive explosion. For the life of me I cannot figure out why he is not more consistent even if he is playing unselfishly. Right now I have no idea where Paul Georges shooting touch has gone to. And Roy Hibbert at times has simply become very hesitant to score in the post due to lack of balance and poor footwork on the block. The second unit is still a work in progress so I can live and let live with them until the playoffs roll around but our starting 5 has got to find a way to score the ball consistently.

    Lets not even take into account that this team despite the chemistry we have is still a turnover machine on the road and against elite competition. Listen, I get players are going to have off nights, PG, Luis, and even DWEST at times but we are simply too darn talented to have 6 minute scoring droughts every other road game or against elite competition.


    Whose to blame for the inconsistent lack of scoring production. Is it Coach Vogel or are the players simply not executing.


    Point blank, we are too darn talented with the first and second unit to be an average offensive team! Coach Vogel must find a way for our offense to score points in a more consistent manner or it may come back to bite us when it matters most.

    Anyone have a valid clue what the hell is wrong with our offense excluding the turnover issues.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    If anything our defense has been the problem as of late

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    A team with multiple offensive initiators who are scorers are going to tend to freestyle more, make the opposing defense work less, and be more likely to make bad decisions.

    Also, it takes a huge amount of energy to play defense at the level the Pacers do. That leaves less energy to get lift on shots, slightly less crisp cuts and passes, and more likelihood of taking chances due to a little mental fatigue.

    Finally, when a team doesn't have a lot of willing passers, it becomes even easier to defend because dribbling the ball cannot possibly move the ball as quickly from one spot to another as proper passing amongst players who move with a purpose can.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    I do not want to place the onus on Roy alone. However, for a team that prides itself in "smashmouth" basketball and an "inside out" offense Roy has yet to prove he can be a consistent option for this team on the block and it concerns me significantly.

    If Roy were getting double teamed I would have no gripe with it, but for the most part teams are not doubling to prevent Roy from scoring in the lane. Again, its not just Roy, but at this time I expect more of a low post presence from him and were not getting it.

    I hope after last night Hill realizes this team needs him to be more assertive offensively.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    We are fine.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    We are fine.
    Ranked 20th in the league in overall offense behind juggernauts like the LA Lakers (w/out Kobe), Wizards, and Pelicans. If below average is considered "fine" then we got nothing to be concerned about.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...rison-per-game

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Ranked 20th in the league in overall offense behind juggernauts like the LA Lakers (w/out Kobe), Wizards, and Pelicans. If below average is considered "fine" then we got nothing to be concerned about.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...rison-per-game
    We play a slower style of basketball, especially when it comes to running our offense. We don't jack up shots early in the shot clock, don't really run a lot of fast break, and primarily play a half-court offense. Sure, we could be like the Lakers, Pelicans, and Wizards and put up some really cool numbers on offense, but our defensive production would suffer drastically. Those teams put up numbers on offense because they have little to no defense. Outscoring (or outchucking) their opponent is their only chance to win games.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    We play a slower style of basketball, especially when it comes to running our offense. We don't jack up shots early in the shot clock, don't really run a lot of fast break, and primarily play a half-court offense. Sure, we could be like the Lakers, Pelicans, and Wizards and put up some really cool numbers on offense, but our defensive production would suffer drastically. Those teams put up numbers on offense because they have little to no defense. Outscoring (or outchucking) their opponent is their only chance to win games.
    So in essence our defense is only considered elite due to the fact we play at a snails pace offensively and distort/skew the numbers? I see your point and it is valid. As a team we are 26th in the league in FG attempts.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...GoalsAttempted

    Which could be due to the fact we make other teams work harder for shots as well which in turn slows our offense down. Interesting per the stats above, OKC averages only one more shot per game than us (ranked 19th) and scores approximately 7 more pts a game. This is a team without Westbrook which skews things because they have had to slow tempo with him out.

    My point regarding the Lakers was talent wise they have been without Nash, Kobe, and Pau has missed time.. given they are a fast break team but no where near the talent we have, same holds true for bottom feeders like Pelicans and Wizards.

    Spurs play half court as well and are ranked in the top 10. One could assume since we play in the weak Eastern Conference our offense would be a little higher than 20th overall.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    As a team we are 26th in the league in FG attempts.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...GoalsAttempted
    And that's a very valid point indeed. We are doing a quite good job at hitting the shots that we attempt but at times we don't attempt enough of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    One could assume since we play in the weak Eastern Conference our offense would be a little higher than 20th overall.
    That would be a very poor assumption, though.

    It's true that the East is weaker than the West but that doesn't mean that Eastern teams are weaker defensively than Western ones.

    Take a look at that -> http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/tea...ff/order/false

    Let's see what happens 20 through 30:

    20) Brooklyn
    21) Portland
    22) New York
    23) Cleveland
    24) Dallas
    25) New Orleans
    26) Los Angeles (Lakers)
    27) Philadelphia
    28) Sacramento
    29) Milwaukee
    30) Utah

    We can see 5 Eastern teams (Brooklyn, New York, Cleveland, Philadelphia and Milwaukee) and 6 Western teams (Portland, Dallas, New Orleans, Los Angeles, Sacramento and Utah).

    Let's see what's happening 1 through 10 as well:

    1) Indiana
    2) Chicago
    3) Golden State (yes, they are very good defensively, actually)
    4) Oklahoma City
    5) San Antonio
    6) Charlotte
    7) Toronto
    8) Houston
    9) Washington
    10) Clippers

    As you can see it's 5-5.

    That indicates one simple thing. There are good defensive teams and there are bad defensive teams. It doesn't matter if a team is in the East or the West. There are good defensive teams in both conferences. Being in the East doesn't give a team any kind of advantage in scoring.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Ranked 20th in the league in overall offense behind juggernauts like the LA Lakers (w/out Kobe), Wizards, and Pelicans. If below average is considered "fine" then we got nothing to be concerned about.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...rison-per-game
    That's PPG. PPG is a very poor way to compare a team's overall offense. Offensive Efficiency is a much better metric -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PQVmydtMM

    We are still below average at that (#19), obviously.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Lack of a pick and roll game is a problem IMO. Roy's almost useless in this action, and West's more of a pop guy. I hate to say it, but I believe if we had a Gortat or even R. Lopez out there our offense would be much better.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 02-08-2014 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    We are fine.
    Wonder how many of the several that thanked the comment still carry the same tune. Posted this about a month back and felt the wrath of many. Now the defense the Pacers relied is gone MIA as well.

    I don't think our issues on offense pertain to passing as much any longer. the offense is simply stale and we got no shooters except Cope who rides the pine.


    I still believe this team will advance to the NBA Finals but I don't think we can beat the WC teams. Our record is a bit misleading in the EC. The Heat are defending champs, and have not had DWade most the season.

    Coach Vogel is going to have to come up with a solution to our offensive inefficiencies otherwise a good record is all this team is going to have to show for this season.

    Where is George Hill and Roy Hibbert. These guys need to become more consistent. Don't like saying it but I believe this is what Roy is offensively. if he opts out for 18M or whatnot he can walk. I like GHILL, big fan but excluding he is from Indiana, his production on the court has not been worthy of an 8M a year contract.

    I hope this team has another Gear for the playoffs,, to beat the Heat and WC champion, were gonna need a more balanced attack to go the lockdown Defense.

    big fan of Coach Vogel but I do not believe we are maximizing the offensive talent on this roster.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Wonder how many of the several that thanked the comment still carry the same tune.
    If you asked me after the loss to Golden State then I'd carry the same tune. Even after this loss everything seemed perfectly fine. The last 2 games, though, are different. I'm not sure what it is but it seems bad.

    I certainly believe that we're going to be fine and put this behind us but I'm worried at the moment.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    If you asked me after the loss to Golden State then I'd carry the same tune. Even after this loss everything seemed perfectly fine. The last 2 games, though, are different. I'm not sure what it is but it seems bad.

    I certainly believe that we're going to be fine and put this behind us but I'm worried at the moment.
    Same here. I predict they'll snap out of it sooner or later, but this stretch sucks to watch.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Well part of the issue is elementary basketball...too often we have 4 guys just standing in one spot waiting for the guy with the ball to do something.

    You don't have to know much about basketball to know that rarely works (Sometimes works with LBJ, but even then is a bad offensive system).

    The other is turnovers. Passing to guys who aren't looking, or trying to pass into or dribble through traffic.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    Well part of the issue is elementary basketball...too often we have 4 guys just standing in one spot waiting for the guy with the ball to do something.

    You don't have to know much about basketball to know that rarely works (Sometimes works with LBJ, but even then is a bad offensive system).

    The other is turnovers. Passing to guys who aren't looking, or trying to pass into or dribble through traffic.

    Let me simply ask this then. Are we a mediocre PASSING team? We are currently 21st in assists.


    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...neous-per-game

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Let me simply ask this then. Are we a mediocre PASSING team? We are currently 21st in assists.


    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...neous-per-game
    I don't know how to answer that.

    Our guys know how to pass. Sometimes they make great passes. Other times they wait far too long to make the pass or just throw an insanely stupid pass.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    I don't know how to answer that.

    Our guys know how to pass. Sometimes they make great passes. Other times they wait far too long to make the pass or just throw an insanely stupid pass.

    Pacers are 23rd in the NBA in A/T ratio as a TEAM.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...tTurnoverRatio


    May be a primary reason as to why this team is offensively inefficient & believe it has more to do with player execution than it does the offensive system in place.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    This thread is long overdue.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    yeah cause 113 points is a real issue
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    You ask a question, and in the process say you "don't want to hear" all of the answers. PG plays defense harder than Kobe. PG plays a ton of minutes. We scored a season high last night and beat the leagues best offense. Every team goes through offensive droughts. It's the nature of basketball. And the thing is you CAN count on GHill to score, or West, even Rasual Butler. That's why we win so many games. It's never going to be one guy every night carrying the load. Our offense isn't "prolific" because there are almost no teams in the history of the NBA that are the best defense AND offense in the league.

    We have the best record in the league and people are still complaining about it.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
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    You ask a question, and in the process say you "don't want to hear" all of the answers. PG plays defense harder than Kobe. PG plays a ton of minutes. We scored a season high last night and beat the leagues best offense. Every team goes through offensive droughts. It's the nature of basketball. And the thing is you CAN count on GHill to score, or West, even Rasual Butler. That's why we win so many games. It's never going to be one guy every night carrying the load. Our offense isn't "prolific" because there are almost no teams in the history of the NBA that are the best defense AND offense in the league.

    We have the best record in the league and people are still complaining about it.
    I stated "no excuses." Big difference. How certain are you PG plays harder D than Kobe??? All the while Kobe has a lot more offensive responsibility than PG.

    Forgive me but no one in the NBA or sports for that matter hang BANNERS for the "best record."

    Maybe some of you should revisit the last time we played the Heat as only one example, were up 15 at one time and our offense didn't score for about 10 minutes straight in that game give or take, and we lost.


    Let me summarize then: the fact we no longer play JOB ball yet have way more talent than those teams could ever dream of excuse the fact that this team is average offensively.

    Fair enough.


    If we got beat last night I wonder if some of you all would be singing the same tune. It took 37 from GHILL and near perfection from DWEST to pull that one out of the fire. I simply expect more from this team offensively at this point in the season and in order to win a BANNER were going to have to avoid going six minutes or longer without a bucket.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    If we got beat last night I wonder if some of you all would be singing the same tune. It took 37 from GHILL and near perfection from DWEST to pull that one out of the fire. I simply expect more from this team offensively at this point in the season and in order to win a BANNER were going to have to avoid going six minutes or longer without a bucket.
    The use of last nights game to further your argument may not be wise. We put up 103 in regulation, that would put us in the top 10 in ppg. Its more an issue with our D, or lack there of. If we were wining games 79-70 then you could say we have a severe O issue. I'd imagine if you took out the "garbage" time where we were blowing teams out our PPG would be a bit better.

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    How certain are you PG plays harder D than Kobe???
    Absolutely certain. It's a well known fact that Kobe in particular has been dogging it defensively for years.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: what the BLEEP is wrong with our OFFENSE?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Absolutely certain. It's a well known fact that Kobe in particular has been dogging it defensively for years.
    The fact Kobe has made the all defensive team 12 times then is a bit misleading.

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