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Thread: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

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    Default How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    February 05, 2014 @ 07:08 PM ET by David Nurse - hoopshype.com

    http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-n...erts-post-game

    The Miami Heat Stopper. LeBron’s Playoff Kryptonite. These are two phrases that have been used to describe the 7-foot-2 center Roy Hibbert. The legend and hype around the Pacer All-Star has continued to grow astronomically after the drawn-out, seven-game series epic battle that took place in last season’s NBA playoffs. Miami has even gone as far as rolling the dice in signing Benjamin Button-brittle Greg Oden to prepare the whole season for one sole purpose: Stop Roy Hibbert. However, contrary to popular belief by practically everyone with a pulse, Hibbert is more of a hindrance to the Pacers' championship aspirations than he is the herald savior. In one playoff series, Hibbert catapulted his reputation from run-of-the-mill big man to the next Hakeem Olajuwon faster than Miley Cyrus transformed from Disney sweetheart to making Lady Gaga look like a saint.

    Hibbert largely is a beneficiary of a social media society that loves to over-analyze and over-hype everything and anything that can be posted or tweeted. Why is Hibbert more of a thorn in the side of the Pacers' title hopes than he is a franchise cornerstone big man? You’re about to find out.
    WHAT IS WRONG WITH ROY HIBBERT'S POST GAME?
    Sure, Hibbert made his mark on the league defensively. But his 22.1 ppg average in last season’s playoff series against the Heat earned him offensive hype that is a little premature. Don’t get me wrong, I think he has the ability to be a productive offensive player with his high basketball IQ, good feet and soft hands. But let’s hold off on the “dominant” label for now.
    One of Hibbert’s main problems in his post game is that he rarely ever establishes low position when he receives that ball.
    Nearly every night Hibbert has a height advantage over his opponent, but allowing the defender to push him away from the basket negates the effectiveness and productivity of his low-post game. If a big man can catch with a foot already in the paint, he has already won 75 percent of the battle.
    However, only 1 out of every 5 post touches Hibbert receives does he actually have a foot in the paint. Hibbert is in a ‘back-to-the-basket’ post up situation 44.4 percent of his attempted shots, but he is only converting at a 0.84 points per possession rate. That’s only average in the league, and puts him behind Miles Plumlee, for example.
    Dwight Howard has never been mistaken for a low post-move aficionado. Even after his work with Olajuwon and Kevin McHale. But he is a freakishly athletically gifted player that can dominate with the Shaq-game: offensive rebound, dunk. Hibbert doesn’t have that luxury. He needs to rely on a variety of post moves that, frankly, he doesn’t possess.
    Overall, in single-covered post up situations Hibbert is only shooting 42.9 percent and has been very ineffective when posted up on the left block, where he attempts 51.6 percent of his post up situation shots. Hibbert basically has two moves; a baby hook and a face-up jumper. He mixes in the occasionally fall-away jumper as well, which he should probably mix out of the rotation.
    What upsets me as a professional shooting coach and skills trainer is that Hibbert relies far too much on his baby hook shot instead of taking advantage of his enormous frame and high basketball IQ. Not only does he rely on his baby hook too much, he continually attempts an extremely low-percentage left-handed baby hook.
    This is the Brandon Jennings of step-back fade away jumpers. When he turns right shoulder, he is attempting the hook 51.9 percent of the time and is shooting an ice cold 29.6 percent ranking him in the bottom 13 percent of the league. Not the most efficient shot to say the least.
    The NBA is a ball screen league. There’s no denying it. Guarding the pick-and-roll can be like solving a Rubik’s cube at times for teams. Stockton and Malone, Nash and Stoudemire – it basically made them who they are. George and Hibbert? Yeah, not so much.
    With Hibbert’s size advantage on a nightly basis and his Calvin Johnson-esque hands, he settles far too much for popping out of the pick-and-roll as opposed to attacking the rim on the roll.
    Hibbert is known for being an above-average mid-range jump shooter, but if we take a deeper look into the analytics, you’ll see he’s more underwhelming than perceived. In catch-and-shoot situations off a ball screen, Hibbert is shooting 40.7 percent at a 0.83 points per possession rate, ranking him in the bottom 26 percent of the league.
    That’s great if you are hitting a baseball, but definitely not shooting a basketball. And when there is a hand in his face, his percentage drops to 27.6 percent ranking –him all the way in the bottom 9 percent. This doesn’t fair well for Hibbert, whose release time as it is has never been mistaken for Ray Allen’s.
    WHAT SHOULD ROY HIBBERT DO TO REMEDY THE PROBLEM?
    On February 16, Hibbert will find himself on the court of the New Orleans Arena in his second All-Star Game. And deservingly so. He’s a unique talent that undoubtedly has the ability to change the course of a game and the flow of the opponent’s offense with his length, IQ, and savviness on the defense end.
    However, Hibbert hasn’t only been changing the offensive flow of the opponent, but also his Pacer teammates as well.
    The good news is, all of Hibbert’s flaws in his offensive post game can be fixed. And once he does fix these inequities, he will become the most dominant big man in the game today.

    Hibbert needs to make it a priority every time on the offensive end to initiate much deeper position. He needs to raise his post touches with a foot in the paint to closer to 3 out of every 5 as opposed to the current 1 out of 5. Apart from the knowledge and focus of skillfully fighting for this deep position by studying his nightly defender’s tendencies on the defensive end, Hibbert also needs to increase lower body strength and foot quickness.
    In a recent interview with Grantland, Hibbert admitted he couldn’t do a single, weightless squat when he arrived at Georgetown. He and Kevin Durant certainly wouldn’t make Arnold Schwarzenegger proud.
    However, Hibbert’s commitment to offseason lower body strength training with an emphasis on mobility and stability is what will help him to gain more consistent deeper position in the post. His strength trainer Mike Robertson said, “It’s the stuff that I know as a performance coach will translate to him moving and feeling better on the court.” Kudos Mike, it’s the same when it comes to skills training.
    As far as Hibbert’s coveted left-handed baby hook, it’s got to go. Hibbert needs to realize where he is most effective and put himself in those advantageous situations. Like I had mentioned, Hibbert has been very ineffective from the left block, shooting 35 percent.
    However, from the right block Hibbert has been vastly more effective, shooting right at 50 percent and ranking in the top 14 percent of the league at a 1.09 points per possession.
    Why is Hibbert so much more prominent from the right block than the left? When he is able to turn middle, he can finish with a right-handed hook instead of his low-percentage left. He is shooting a scorching 59.3 percent with his hook shot from the right block when turning over his left shoulder (i.e. right-handed hook). It doesn’t take a Georgetown grad to figure out where he is most effective from.
    Hibbert also needs to take a page from LeBron’s book: How to Spend an Off Season in the Post. Hibbert needs to focus on adding an up-and-under step through move to compliment his baby hook, as well as a “Dream Shake” baseline drop-step finish.
    Hibbert needs to start channeling his inner Amare Stoudemire (pre multiple knee surgery version) and start attacking the rim with reckless abandon on the pick-and-roll instead of setting for a pick-and-pop slow release, methodical jumper.
    For a big man at 7-foot-2, Hibbert is a more than a serviceable free throw shooter at 73 percent for his career. The more he attacks the hoop on the pick-and-roll, the more he will find himself at the free throw line. He’s only averaging 3.1 free throw attempts per game, which is far too low.
    Andrea Bargnani, who is widely regarded as one of the softest players in the league, is averaging 3.2 free throws per game. Come on, Roy.
    Hibbert is actually converting at a 1.14 points per possession rate on rolls to the basket in pick-and-roll situations, which ranks him in the top half of the NBA, light years better than his pick-and-pop rate.
    It’s relatively clear to see what facets of Hibbert’s offensive game he struggles in and what he needs to do to turn those deficiencies into strengths. 7-foot-2 with a high basketball IQ is hard to teach.
    If Hibbert can focus on establishing deeper low post position on the catch, work more from the right block than the left, add in a couple low-post counter moves to his hook shoot, cut down on left-handed hook attempts, and attack the rim like a mad man in pick-and-roll situations, he can become as much of a game-changer on the offensive end as he is defensively.
    And he will continually haunt Erik Spoelstra’s dreams from here on out. Hibbert has the ability to become the top big man in the game for years to come if he can make these adjustments.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Getting Roy consistent touches will improve his post game, but from the team aspect looks like they want his effort towards defense more than offense

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Put more air under his hooks, would benefit him greatly. It's too flat. The flatter the flight of the ball, the less error you have. He just clanks it off the back of the rim.

    There is a grouping of pictures for Kareem and his sky-hook here.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/features/kareem

    That 4th picture really shows that the flight of the ball is first going up as opposed to being towards the rim.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Part of it is also that if Hibbert gets position, we rarely get him the ball on time.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    I'd like to see Roy more aggressive in just dunking the ball on smaller guys and opposing centers. But Roy charging the basket as the article suggests? Nope. The minute he does, a player will slide in and take the charge. Call will go against Roy because he's 7 feet tall. Today's NBA is structured where big men can't play big anymore. They need fancy moves in the post to get their shots off. Brute strength and going to the rim full body just results in dumb offensive foul calls.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    I think Roy is best as a defender first, offensive player second. I don't think he nor the team would be very successful if he was the first or second option. I think the way he has been used this year is perfect. Against certain teams he is used more offensively, but against most teams he is the 4th option offensively.

    When we try to feed him the ball in the post it isn't very successful for a number of reasons. Roy is better as the secondary option on a given play, after a pick and roll, after the ball is reversed, after a high low action with West at the elbow. I think the coaching staff has come to this conclusion and it appears to me that it is the correct conclusion

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    It also doesn't help that Roy's mid range and free throw shooting has declined over the season. Part of the reason our offense is bad is because of the stagnation and telegraphing that results from waiting around for someone to post up too far from the basket. The team just in general does too many isolation post ups instead of using movement to free up guys for better position. Our guards sometimes get backdoor plays, but the bigs and forwards should be screening for each other to open up space. (The only consistent set involves Ian downscreening for Luis for the jumper at the top of the key.) Everyone needs to be more decisive (except Lance).

    As stated, the inaccurate and delayed entry passes sure don't help either.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think Roy is best as a defender first, offensive player second. I don't think he nor the team would be very successful if he was the first or second option. I think the way he has been used this year is perfect. Against certain teams he is used more offensively, but against most teams he is the 4th option offensively.

    When we try to feed him the ball in the post it isn't very successful for a number of reasons. Roy is better as the secondary option on a given play, after a pick and roll, after the ball is reversed, after a high low action with West at the elbow. I think the coaching staff has come to this conclusion and it appears to me that it is the correct conclusion
    I totally agree that Roy should be a defender first and perhaps only a third or fourth option on offense. But there is nothing wrong with having a David West mentality, where Roy is capable of stepping up when needed, basically when other starters just aren't getting the job done.

    I have not, for example, realized to what degree Roy's left-handed hook is worse the his right-handed hook. To me, just from my own ability to still shoot a hook at age 61, Roy's mechanics with either hand are rather poor. The ball is typically shot somewhat forward of his head rather than above the ear where it is better protected by the body, released at a higher point with better trajectory and in a much more fluid motion.

    I do think the author is spot-on with his suggestions for improving Roy's offensive game. Even though I want to see Roy expend most of his energy on the defensive end, I think these improvements would improve his ability to be a bigger threat on the offensive end when he is needed. If nothing else, the improvements will do wonders for his efficiency.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    The more I watch other centers operate offensively, the more I believe Roy is a detriment on that end most of the time.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Roy's FT shooting is still good. He splits a pair more now than he used to but hey, at least he hits the rim. They just rattle out sometimes because he's big, with big hands. Some people, are fouled on purpose so their team can lose games. Roy will never be in that class.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    once we fix him he might be an all-star!

    oh wait...
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Put more air under his hooks, would benefit him greatly. It's too flat. The flatter the flight of the ball, the less error you have. He just clanks it off the back of the rim.

    There is a grouping of pictures for Kareem and his sky-hook here.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/features/kareem

    That 4th picture really shows that the flight of the ball is first going up as opposed to being towards the rim.
    This.

    I have actually been impressed with Roy's progress on the hook, but it has a ways to go. At times it seems he almost slings it from the hip to get it up, especially going left. Still admire his work ethic and desire to do something/anything to be more of a presence on the offensive end. Dang, its just that he has so little upper body strength. Almost like a gangly 8th grader.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Roy's only has two issues. Center of gravity and strength. He needs to keep working to strengthen his lower body and his core. He's already 27 so I have some doubts that he will mature in a way where his center of gravity gets much lower. But any lower would help. I would expect Roy to gradually improve because these issues will be ameliorated somewhat. Still, I do think he's close to a finished product at this point.

    Edit: With that said, I think Roy needs to emulate Duncan and get that bank shot going.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Roy's offense does have me a bit worried this season.......not because we need him to be dominant on a nightly basis or that we even need him to be a top 3 option in our offense. What he does for us defensively is more than enough to equate to his value and he is quite possibly the most important Pacer on the court each night even in games where he doesn't score at all.

    However, the reason we pushed Miami to 7 games and had a great chance to win that series was because Roy was flat out dominant and we went to him early and often. If we can not rely on his offense in that series it really might hurt us. That is the one and only series I am hopeful he can bring us good production offensively (and in the first game against Miami this year he was still dominant so the trend may continue though the 2nd game he was in foul trouble all game).

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    I don't think its a strength issue anymore. I mean he put in a ton of work in the offseason and it looked like he bulked up significantly. Remember that cray pic with Tim Duncan? It's something else at this point. It's weird watching him get pushed around and out of the post by guys who are clearly smaller and weaker than him. I don't know what the problem is. Balance? He does fall down a lot more than any other big man I know (hence the Hibbert drinking game). It also looks like he hops around a lot or has one foot off the ground. He needs to learn to keep both feet down and use leverage.

    One thing that would make me happier than anything else, please learn to pump fake and dunk hard when you have the ball underneath the hoop. I'm tire of him missing bunnies at the rim.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    I don't think its a strength issue anymore. I mean he put in a ton of work in the offseason and it looked like he bulked up significantly. Remember that cray pic with Tim Duncan? It's something else at this point. It's weird watching him get pushed around and out of the post by guys who are clearly smaller and weaker than him. I don't know what the problem is. Balance? He does fall down a lot more than any other big man I know (hence the Hibbert drinking game). It also looks like he hops around a lot or has one foot off the ground. He needs to learn to keep both feet down and use leverage.

    One thing that would make me happier than anything else, please learn to pump fake and dunk hard when you have the ball underneath the hoop. I'm tire of him missing bunnies at the rim.
    It is balance and leverage. Most guys guarding him have a lower center of gravity, and can use that leverage to move Hibbert. Combine that with Hibbert's poor balance, and he becomes easy to move by most big men. This is why he tends to dominate over weaker opponents no matter their height, but will have problems with shorter players who are very strong.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    1. Don't give him the ball 15' out and expect him to make a play. (He can shoot a jumper from there but he can't go 1 on 1 from there)
    2. STOP DRIBBLING THE DAMN BALL!!
    3. No left hand hooks farther than 5' out.

    This would help things immensely.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    once we fix him he might be an all-star!

    oh wait...
    He isn't an all star because of his offense. That is the point of this thread.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    The "big step to the baseline shot-put over the left shoulder hook" that Robin Lopez used so often last night would be a great left block move for Hibbert. Would be completely unblockable and Roy would probably execute it at a high percentage even if he didn't have a foot in the paint. I also agree that an up & under move would be a great addition. Fake with the RH hook and then step under putting the defender on his hip for a little bank shot.

    I don't see Roy spending that much time on something like a "Dream Shake" drop step move being that productive. A big needs good balance and good awareness of exactly where they are on the court to execute something like that move. Roy has poor balance and questionable floor awareness which often ends up with him trying to finish moves from too far out on the court or in scrum too close to the basket.

    I still think that in time Roy will develop a really dependable elbow jumper just like Smits did in the second half of his career. Problem is that right now the elbow area is DWest's area of operation.

    The stuff on Roy struggling with position and leverage is nothing new and something I believe he will struggle with his whole career. The genetics just are not there for him. Sure he needs to work on it and get stronger but learning a couple of moves that would allow him to finish while starting a step outside the paint would IMO pay bigger dividends. He has the length and touch to make it happen.
    Last edited by Downtown Bang!; 02-08-2014 at 12:20 PM.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    It is balance and leverage. Most guys guarding him have a lower center of gravity, and can use that leverage to move Hibbert. Combine that with Hibbert's poor balance, and he becomes easy to move by most big men. This is why he tends to dominate over weaker opponents no matter their height, but will have problems with shorter players who are very strong.
    This has always been the main issue for Roy.

  30. #21

    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    Remember how Shaq would catch a ball high and rotate into his shot with his elbows extended becuase he was just taller and bigger than everyone. Shaq generated a lot of space with that move alone and its something Hibbert should try even if it gets him an offensive foul.

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    Default Re: How to fix Hibbert's post game.

    I just think he catches the ball a little too far out often and it takes away from his range. I think he needs to catch the ball closer to the rim and he'll be able to convert more shots
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