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Thread: Andrew Bynum 13-14 General Discussion

  1. #551
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Moving Danny for a guard who can back up Lance makes sense to cut down on his 36 mpg. Copeland would slide in to back up PG. Unless Vogel is willing to move Danny down to backup 2, and Copeland to back up 3.
    Just stop. Your constant need to trade someone is beyond annoying.

    Anyways Butler is more likely to get the back-up SF minutes than Copeland.

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  3. #552

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Moving Danny for a guard who can back up Lance makes sense to cut down on his 36 mpg. Copeland would slide in to back up PG. Unless Vogel is willing to move Danny down to backup 2, and Copeland to back up 3.
    How have you not gotten that trading Granger means losing Lance

  4. #553
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Except for the part where his team was 10.1 points better with him on the bench than they were with him on the court. If Cleveland was a winning team it wouldn't be a big deal, but Cleveland currently is tied for the 6th worst record in the league.
    Gerald Green was a suction of Dyson-ic proportions for the Pacers last year, and this year is a starter for a vastly improved Suns team. It all comes down to the situation.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 02-03-2014 at 12:02 PM.
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  6. #554
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    How have you not gotten that trading Granger means losing Lance
    Not necessarily. He could be traded for another player with an expiring contract.

    Still this thread is supposed to be about Bynum. I sure hope that everyone, including the Pacers players, gives him the benefit of the doubt. Both times he's had a problem, Mike Brown has been the coach. He was really good under Phil Jackson. The combo of Larry Bird, Frank Vogel, and Nate McMillan will have no problems getting him to "buy in".

    With the way some people talk about Bynum you'd think the Pacers just signed Dennis Rodman. The only complaints I've read about him are that he's an aloof loaner who sometimes likes to jack up 3-pointers in practice. Maybe it's because his teammates were jerks in LA (nobody really likes Kobe off the court) and Cleveland. We never heard any of those complaints from Philly and Doug Collins. As far as shooting 3-pointers in practice is concerned, he'll fit in fine here as that's what all the Pacers players do after practice for fun and the coaching staff is fine with the players having a little fun during practice and during the games. He'll fit in fine off the court. Whether he'll fit in fine on the court is the biggest question mark.
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 02-03-2014 at 12:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  8. #555
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    I think those of us saying that this move likely won't hurt us are saying exactly that. It's not that we don't recognize that Bynum could be an issue. But those of you saying, "He killed the Sixers and Cavs; therefore he's going to kill us" aren't taking context into context (haha, I just made that up). It's all been said before in this thread; he's being paid way less (peanuts, actually); he's being expected to do way less; we have a great team and lockerroom full of strong character guys who won't put up with his ****; and if despite all that he still manages to be a pain --- we cut his ***. I believe our guys will have no problem moving on just fine.

    Therefore, in our opinion, this isn't a very risky move. It would be a a risky move for Cleveland, because they suck as a team, have no leadership, were paying him a truckload, and were expecting him to be their team's backbone, and he's known to lose focus when the situation isn't great.

    And like I said earlier, there's actually something to be said on Bynum's part that he was willing to come here for peanuts and play a limited role. I think it's a sign he's been humbled and possibly matured. Of course, I could be way wrong about that, and if I am and he comes here and tries to bed CJ Watson's mom, then you know... Bird cuts his butt.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 02-03-2014 at 12:00 PM.
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  10. #556
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    *edit - and who turned around that banner so fast? To me it's almost a bit weird to already have that up in BILF. At least wait till the guy can attend a game first.
    Do you remember the story about the "gift pack" they made for Copeland? It is just a way of making a new "recruit" feel welcomed and wanted. Not a bad thing, in my opinion.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Yea, those banners are no big deal lol... that company was probably called up the day before he was signed and told to get a graphic ready, which they probably already had the team template saved, all they had to do was copy/paste and print that bad boy off.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  14. #558
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    But why was that? What does it mean? Is it a reflection on him or the way the other players tried to play with him? Were his teammates getting open so he could pass the ball back out when he got doubled? Was he having to force shots because he didn't have any better options? I don't know. I do know that his rebound and assist numbers were better than Mahinmi's. More blocks and less fouls. Looks promising to me.

    ........MPG ..FG% .FT% RPG APG SPG BPG TO .PF .PPG
    Bynum.. 20.0 .419 .762 5.3 1.1 .30 1.2 1.3 1.2 8.4
    Mahinmi 16.0 .424 .622 3.1 0.3 .60 0.9 0.8 2.7 3.0
    Most of those statistics are not significantly different. For example give Mahinmi 4 more minutes per game, at his current rate he would average 1.1 bpg. Getting fewer rebounds tends to happen when you play with Lance. No one is going to deny that Bynum is a better individual offensive player. That doesn't mean he will automatically fit better than Mahinmi though. With that said right now he is currently equally inefficient as Mahinmi has been offensively, and I have a hard time seeing Bynum being as good as Mahinmi defensively at this point. Nothing is as simple as replacing a few face value numbers with slightly better ones, and thinking it automatically means he will be better. He could be better than Mahinmi offensively, but Mahinmi could be equally better defensively. We could easily end up in an offense vs defense situation.

    The is no way around it. Right now there are tons of question marks with Bynum. His name says he should be better, but name alone doesn't guarantee you anything.

  15. #559

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Nobody is going to trade us an expiring contract for granger. The majority of his value is the fact that hes expiring.

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  17. #560

    Default Re: So what was Andrew's Bynum's conduct detrimental to the team??

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Why are we only focusing on what happened in Cleveland. He was a little bit of a problem in LA and he didn't show much desire to get into shape and play for the Sixers either.
    Well if his knees are bad that may hinder him from getting into shape but what I am most shocked about is that the Pacers didn't give him a physical before the signing. Hopefully they atleast obtain some medical records but that 1 million that could easily go down the tube.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Gerald Green was a suction of Dyson-ic proportions for the Pacers last year, and this year is a starter for a vastly improved Suns team. It all comes down to the situation.
    I soured on Green like everyone did, but he was rarely as bad as most people made him out to be. His on/off last year was actually ranked 8th on the team, 6th if you only take into consideration players who played at least 20% of available minutes.

    I understand that is highly contextual, but likewise we are talking about a player who has the second worst rating on an already bad team. So it isn't like he was a decent player just playing behind much better players. That suggests the problem wasn't just the players around him, and that as bad as Green was last year he was still much better than Bynum has been this year.

    Look all I am saying is don't assume he is going to come in and automatically be an upgrade to Mahinmi just because his name is Bynum, and his straight stats were ever so slightly better.

  19. #562

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Most of those statistics are not significantly different. For example give Mahinmi 4 more minutes per game, at his current rate he would average 1.1 bpg. Getting fewer rebounds tends to happen when you play with Lance. No one is going to deny that Bynum is a better individual offensive player. That doesn't mean he will automatically fit better than Mahinmi though. With that said right now he is currently equally inefficient as Mahinmi has been offensively, and I have a hard time seeing Bynum being as good as Mahinmi defensively at this point. Nothing is as simple as replacing a few face value numbers with slightly better ones, and thinking it automatically means he will be better. He could be better than Mahinmi offensively, but Mahinmi could be equally better defensively. We could easily end up in an offense vs defense situation.

    The is no way around it. Right now there are tons of question marks with Bynum. His name says he should be better, but name alone doesn't guarantee you anything.
    Give me a 1 hour and I will give you synergy breakdown Elezar on how they stack up defensively and offensively.

    I have been meaning to getting around to doing a comparison so now is as good as time as any.

  20. #563
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Sorry I've been busy, but any news on when he'll suit up?
    Not until after the All-Star Break, probably.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Nobody is going to trade us an expiring contract for granger. The majority of his value is the fact that hes expiring.
    Another team that is unhappy with the play of the expiring player they currently have could want to do a swap. It happens nearly every year. Recent examples include:

    2/21/13 - Atlanta traded guard Anthony Morrow to Dallas for guard Dahntay Jones.
    - Washington traded guard Jordan Crawford to Boston for center Jason Collins and guard Leandro Barbosa.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I soured on Green like everyone did, but he was rarely as bad as most people made him out to be. His on/off last year was actually ranked 8th on the team, 6th if you only take into consideration players who played at least 20% of available minutes.

    I understand that is highly contextual, but likewise we are talking about a player who has the second worst rating on an already bad team. So it isn't like he was a decent player just playing behind much better players. That suggests the problem wasn't just the players around him, and that as bad as Green was last year he was still much better than Bynum has been this year.

    Look all I am saying is don't assume he is going to come in and automatically be an upgrade to Mahinmi just because his name is Bynum, and his straight stats were ever so slightly better.
    Where was Mahinmi ranked last year?

    Regardless, Frank said after the shoot around yesterday that Bynum will be the backup once he is brought up to speed and says he's a difference maker coming off the bench.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2014...202f4v-3132805
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 02-03-2014 at 01:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Another team that is unhappy with the play of the expiring player they currently have could want to do a swap. It happens nearly every year. Recent examples include:

    2/21/13 - Atlanta traded guard Anthony Morrow to Dallas for guard Dahntay Jones.
    - Washington traded guard Jordan Crawford to Boston for center Jason Collins and guard Leandro Barbosa.
    But how much did those players make? It will be tough to find a 14-million expiring contract that is also playing better than granger. Why would another team trade an expiring for an expiring when their player is playing better? I understand it's possible but seems unlikely

  24. #567

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    But why? Copeland is better.

  25. #568

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    But how much did those players make? It will be tough to find a 14-million expiring contract that is also playing better than granger. Why would another team trade an expiring for an expiring when their player is playing better? I understand it's possible but seems unlikely

    A combo deal would work. Also there are a lot of unhappy players in the NBA right now on certain teams. Rodney Stuckey isn't thrilled in Detroit these days. So Granger to Detroit for the expiring contracts of Stuckey and Villenueva works on ESPN and Real GM. Charlie will never see the floor but Stuckey would be an excellent back up for Lance. He can create his own shot, create for others, and be a facilitator overall off the bench.

  26. #569

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    players get injured all the time and you want an insurance policy in place, and sometimes you can lose a guy for a key game just due to a couple of quick fouls.

    CJ and Sloan provide some insurance if George Hill is out
    Scola and Copeland provide some insurance if David West is out
    Danny and OJ provide some insurance if Lance is out.
    Paul George is out, and...we're screwed.
    Roy Hibbert is out, we're also screwed.


    Maybe this is a bit of insurance for the last scenario. Say Roy gets 2 fouls in the first minute of a series game vs. the Heat. Or he sprains an ankle, gets the flu, or whatever. Maybe we're less screwed then. If it never happens, it doesn't mean that this was a bad gamble. If your car insurance doesn't deliver cash this year because you didn't need it to, it doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea to have it.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I'm not sure I am ready to make Danny the main focus of the bench offense. They force fed him some against the Nets, and it didn't working out very well. I do think his role does need to increase though.
    Agreed. It seems he's either totally forgotten on offense, or he's the primary focus. He had best offensive play of the season when he was part of a functional unit: Scola, Lance, and Granger worked well together and played off each other. More recently, they've each been less effective. I'm not sure why.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Moving Danny for a guard who can back up Lance makes sense to cut down on his 36 mpg. Copeland would slide in to back up PG. Unless Vogel is willing to move Danny down to backup 2, and Copeland to back up 3.
    If there's not a team we could actually make such a trade with, then what's the point of the statement?

    If you have a guard in mind, then let's hear it. Make a trade that works and put it in the trade forum.
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  32. #572
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Where was Mahinmi ranked last year?

    Regardless, Frank said after the shoot around yesterday that Bynum will be the backup once he is brought up to speed and says he's a difference maker coming off the bench.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2014...202f4v-3132805
    You don't bring in Bynum if your plan is to never give him a chance, so that really isn't a surprise. We will see what happens once he is brought up to speed and gets some time on the court. At this point we have no idea if we will get the Bynum that was in Cleveland, or if we got a better version. We just don't know and will not know until he is on the court. That is all I am saying cause some people seem to just assume there is no possibility other than the best possible outcome. It is the same warning I gave Colts fans when it came to Richardson. Just because he is a big name does not mean he is a guarantee to be better.

  33. #573
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    Default Re: So what was Andrew's Bynum's conduct detrimental to the team??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Well if his knees are bad that may hinder him from getting into shape but what I am most shocked about is that the Pacers didn't give him a physical before the signing. Hopefully they atleast obtain some medical records but that 1 million that could easily go down the tube.
    I have a vivid memory of seeing him interviewed in October of 2012. Thinking to myself and later posting here, that he is in no shape at all to play basketball. He was hardly recognizeable to me. And in October of 2012 with the Sixers he was supposed to be ready for the start of the season only diagnosed with a bone bruise. But he was fat.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...rgery/1998091/

  34. #574

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Claimer: Sorry this was rushed but I will try to go into as much detail as I can.

    Defensively:

    Ian ppp 0.85 fg% 40.2

    %Time
    7% Isolation 0.78 ppp
    45% Post up 0.95 ppp
    25.6% PnR roll man 0.82 ppp
    17.8% Spot up 0.65 ppp

    Rim protection via sportsvu fg% 43%

    Andrew Bynum 0.77 ppp fg% 36.5%

    %Time
    13.6% Isolation 0.67 ppp
    28.4% post up 0.64 ppp
    27.3% PnR roll man 0.58 ppp
    27.3% Spot up 1.13 ppp

    Rim protection via sportsvu fg% 37.6%

    So the glaring weakness in Bynums defense is his spot up defense. I haven't look hard at it but my guess is that he doesn't close out nearly as well as Ian but he also may just concede that shot more often to protect the paint where he sees less attempts at the rim per game than Ian and does a pretty good job at defending the rim as well.

    Their perecentage of shooting fouls are about the same at around 7%.

    The suprises to me are the highlighted in red and specifically the PnR defense of Bynum. Giving up 0.58 ppp is absurd and I need to look further into it and see what kind of help defense he was getting but it was most likely the typical ICE play we run with Ian.

    Offensively:

    I need more time but I will point out two things that probably many of you already have noticed.

    Ian is a turnover machine at 20.8% while Bynum is a modest 11.3% per possession

    Ian's offensive ppp is 0.75.

    Bynums offensive ppp is 0.82.

    The largest disparity in offensive plays is Bynum post up 58.9% to Ians 8.1%. Bynum on post ups ppp is 0.75, Ians is 0.5 ppp with a eye popping 18.2% field goal percentage.

    Ian is the much better roll man on the pnr as you would expect as well as a better cutter to the basket. This is where he makes up his efficiency.

    Bynum however is much better at getting to the free throw line and like I said he doesn't turn the ball over on a fifth of his possessions.

    As for offensive rebounds Bynum is also better and he is also better at passing the ball.

    Like many of you have said if Bynum finds his offensive mojo then this will be a slam dunk signing all things considered.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 02-03-2014 at 01:34 PM.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    But why? Copeland is better.
    Better than who? Granger? He isn't even better than Butler. Granger's D by itself makes him a better player than Copeland. Copeland as a SF shooting 3's in nothing special that makes defenses adjust. It is normal for SF's to be good at the 3. What makes him valuable is as a stretch 4. There he can stretch out the defense with his ability to make 3's, he is capable of taking other 4's off the dribble, and won't be destroyed by the athleticism of most SF's. If Copeland was capable of being an effective SF he would have received more time there prior to Granger's return.

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