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Thread: Andrew Bynum 13-14 General Discussion

  1. #526
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
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    And if not, I think we need to start playing Orlando Johnson and Soloman Hill from time to time to rest PG a bit more, maybe
    The thing is, even though Danny's playing poorly he's still a better option than OJ or Solo.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The thing is, even though Danny's playing poorly he's still a better option than OJ or Solo.
    Danny has struggled with his shot for the past few games but he isn't far removed for 7 straight double figure games and even when his shot isn't falling he's still been good at driving with the ball and hits his foul shots. Danny needs to know he has consistant minutes and Vogel is over playing Paul and Lance. I'd still like to see Vogel make Danny the primary focus of the offense in the second unit which has never happened. Run Danny with GH at the 2 and Watson at the point for 10 minutes, then bring in Paul for GH. I'd like to see Danny get at least 25 minutes per game going forward.

  4. #528

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    So will Bynum be on the bench tomorrow vs Orlando?

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    three reasons pacers signed Bynum article from cbs

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...f-andrew-bynum
    More NBA: Pacers sign Bynum | Latest news, notes

    With the Pacers making it official Saturday morning, we can turn now to the impact, of Indiana signing center Andrew Bynum to a one-year, $1 million contract (per Ken Berger of CBSSports.com).

    Here are three lines of thoughts for why this deal makes sense for Indiana:

    1. The 'Lotto Ticket' concept: The Cavalierssunk six times the money into Bynum without knowing if he'd ever play again. His experience in Cleveland provides both the confidence to sign him to this deal and a cautionary tale of Bynum. He was limited in the amount of minutes he could play, and when he was bad, he was awful. But when he was good, he was still way too big for any team to handle.

    But he still burned his bridges there. He was such a problem that they chose to eat the salary rather than keep him and pay him the full $12 million. So the odds of this working out are not good. He has poor work ethic, a poor attitude, doesn't get along with people, and can't play extended minutes. He admitted to significant pain whenever he played.

    This is not unlike playing the lottery once. In this analogy, the Pacers have managed their money well, they don't spend much in the way of extravagances. So their spending $5 dollars on a lottery ticket isn't going to hurt them. It's not a wise investment over time; basic math will tell you that. But it's also not going to hurt anything.

    The idea with the Cavaliers was that they had the cap space so it didn't matter what they paid him. I disagreed on that front (though overall I supported the move). I'm always of the mind that even beyond cap indications, you need to get return on investment. Smart teams make the most of the money they spend. A $6 million dollar lottery ticket has the same odds as a $1 million lottery ticket, which is to say, not good. But the hit for Indiana is considerably less.

    If they hit, it's a jackpot. If not, it's disappointment, but they have a lot less riding on it than Cleveland.

    2. Indestructible locker room: So the big problem with Bynum is that he's a mess in the locker room. He disrespected Mike Brown in LA. He pretty much screwed over the Sixers by getting hurt bowling,for crying out loud. And whatever happened in Cleveland, it was enough for them to suspend and then dump him.

    So if you're going to invite that kind of trouble in, why would you feel OK about it?

    Because unlike a lot of organizations, the Pacers have a strong enough foundation to withstand any problems he may present. When Larry Legend looks you in the eye and says he's not going to put up with anything, you know it's true. That probably won't set Bynum straight, the guy has a history of just flat-out not caring. It's not as if his time with Kobe Bryant set him on a straight and narrow path. But it does reinforce to others on the roster that they don't have to be bothered by Bynum. They can ignore whatever distraction he may create because of their bond with each other.

    That's part of what makes Indiana so good. Not only have they developed great in-house talent (Paul George, Roy Hibbert) but they've built it on character guys. Lance Stephenson is the only player with a significant history of issues off-court, and it's been dead silent on that front with him for two years. You don't have to be a "good guy" to make it in Indiana, you just have to do your job. And with consummate pro David West there, you're not going to have much choice.

    They have the components to deal with any Bynum issues. And if he buys in, it's another win for an organization with a lot of them.

    3. The Heat Postulate: So did Indiana sign him so that the Miami Heatwouldn't? Was that the plan, to keep a dangerous big man away from Miami to maintain their advantage down low?

    Not likely. Miami probably could have found a way to trade for him or made a more compelling pitch if they wanted. And Indiana knows its primary target to counter is Miami, but they're also not going to compromise their own roster just to prevent a guy from signing with the Heat. Plus, Miami already has Greg Oden.

    But there are factors to signing Bynum that have to do with the Heat. For starters, there's this: It's six more fouls. The Pacers know they have to foul LeBron James in the playoffs. They know they have to force Miami to the line and discourage the Heat from getting to the rim. Even if Bynum can't make the stellar rotation or block, he can give a hard foul (often too hard). And one of their problems has been foul trouble for Hibbert. With Bynum, they have 18 fouls to give the Heat inside with Hibbert and backup Ian Mahinmi.

    Whether Bynum is a legitimate upgrade over Mahinmi is a serious question of debate. But if Mahinmi gives them 10 good minutes instead of 10 good minutes and 5 bad, and Bynum gives them five good minutes, that's still a bonus overall.

    Then there are lineup shifts. If Mahinmi is struggling and they don't have Bynum, the Pacers might have to go with a smaller lineup vs. Miami if Hibbert's in foul trouble. But with Bynum, they can maintain their sizeable authority.

    Finally, there are the trade implications. If Bynum can play, is not a problem and stays healthy (three big ifs), then the Pacers can look to move Mahinmi at the deadline. They've got the best team in the league, why would they do that? Because this organization remains focused on pursuing whatever it must to topple Miami. If adding another shooter helps them more than having both Bynum and Mahinmi, they'll look at it. Oh, and Mahinmi has two more seasons at a combined $8 million. That's money that can be spent on re-signing Stephenson.

    Overall, the move has a lot of positive turns to it. Bynum could be a disaster, as he has been for the last two teams who have paid him. But Indiana can withstand it. If you're gunning for a title, you're going to have to take some chances. Signing Andrew Bynum is just another sign of how serious Indiana is at making a title run this season.
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  7. #530
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    So will Bynum be on the bench tomorrow vs Orlando?
    Probably not. I think I've read a couple places that he won't join the team until later in the week.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Sollozo, it's certainly normally possible that the team faced a couple of tough teams and that sent them into a spiral. But the problem here is we know 100% that Lance got into a lockerroom fight with vet players in the middle of this run and that outside of that run the team played a much higher brand of ball.

    They faced other blowouts but then also won the night before or after.

    I wasn't trying to downplay the quality of DAL or OKC but I admit it sounds like that. The issue was the quality of their own competition. They could have lost by more to OKC and DAL if either of those teams wanted to throttle them and were absolutely non-competitive in Houston. Foster expressed his frustration directly to Gnome and I, that's not 2nd hand info.

    That stretch was not just "playing some bad ball" right now, there was a chemistry issue that wrecked the output on the floor. Insiders don't even try to deny it when I bring it up...casually and more in reference to how far things have come, etc.


    Also this isn't a Lance-bash. He was young and part of the problem but most have at least indirectly acknowledged that other problem players were moved which really helped chemistry. Lance had to mature and has done a pretty good job of that so far.
    I know that what you're saying about the locker room incident is true. But my point is simply that the 2011 team was still pretty immature. They had never even made the playoffs and were still a very young and inexperienced team. A locker room incident for a team like that is pretty common and I'm sure that stuff like that happens far more often than is reported. This was a team that was transitioning from a coach they despised in O'Brien to a young guy in Vogel who they didn't quite fully know yet. Plus a guy like PG was a rookie who virtually had no clout in the locker room by then. This was an 8 seeded team who was only able to win one playoff game. They weren't yet good enough on the basketball court, nor did they have the necessary mental toughness to succeed at a high level. This is why Bird added Hill and West in the 2011 off-season.

    As far as this team is concerned, that locker room incident is about as ancient as the Magna Carta. So much has happened since then. We added West and Hill, won multiple playoff series, were a game away from the 2013 Finals, and have won an obscene amount of games. This team is about a billion times more mature than that 2011 team and it's honestly an apples to oranges comparison at this point. I think it would be virtually impossible for Bynum to cause any sort of locker room divide that caused a noticeable problem which hurt us on the basketball court. The only thing that he can screw up is the opportunity to resurrect his career and help us out. He can't do anything more than that, IMHO. If he causes a substantial problem then I will be the first to say that I was wrong big time.

  9. #532
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Danny has struggled with his shot for the past few games but he isn't far removed for 7 straight double figure games and even when his shot isn't falling he's still been good at driving with the ball and hits his foul shots.
    Agreed. He's doing a good job of creating for the guys, and it doesn't bother me that he's not hitting shots in traffic. If he could just nail his threes at a good clip I'd feel fine about him.
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  11. #533
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Sorry I've been busy, but any news on when he'll suit up?

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Sorry I've been busy, but any news on when he'll suit up?
    Pacers coach Frank Vogel told reporters in Indianapolis that Bynum will join the team next week, but isn't expected to be available for duty for several weeks after that.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/...-pacers-020114

    They are going to bring him along very slowly. He hasn't played in over a month now, so they're going to want to make sure that they don't rush him physically. Plus they want to give him plenty of time to learn the system and what is expected of him. This move was made with the playoffs in mid.

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  14. #535

    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Wait if he was trying to sign with a team why would he be out of shape? He should be staying in game shape. Reduces what little hope i had that hes serious about this.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Wait if he was trying to sign with a team why would he be out of shape? He should be staying in game shape. Reduces what little hope i had that hes serious about this.
    I don't think anyone is saying that he's out of shape. But he did miss all of last season because of knee issues. He came back and played 24 games this year with the Cavs, but it's been over a month since he last played. I just don't think that the Pacers want to rush someone in who has had such recent delicate health issues. They need to be as cautious as possible since the main reason we signed him is playoff production.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Bynum is less risk and has more upside now because he signed with the Pacers? I like optimism but not too much I suppose.
    This is the biggest problem I have with the mentality. But....This is Bynum backing up Roy going against Heats frontcourt. Not Bynum going against Roy and getting under Roy's skin.

    I really want to see these two go at each other in practice.

    I feel Seth is overreacting. But I feel like it is coming from too many are dismissing that this could be bad. The risk is not worth it. This isn't a Chris Anderson pickup. Bynum comes with more baggage with teams.

    There are two sides to this coin. If he can help...then there is a likliehood that it might not. I think that West and the experience together is worth more than what Seth is dismissing. I mean come on: If tanking out to get a 13 pick is so much worse than getting the 8th seed because of the experience young players get....then maybe two hard fought series with the Heat means something when a risk is thrown their way.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    These are my first comments on this move. This doesn't excite me nor does it make me angry. I don't think this will make any real difference in whether we win a championship or not. Way too many ifs with Bynum. Sure the risk is minimal, but I see the reward as marginal at best.

    Bynum has not been in basketball shape for two seasons now, I doubt he is going to get into shape over the next few weeks.

    At best he is a better backup than Ian and can provide some low post scoring off the bench playing 10-15 minutes per game. And sure there is some value in that, I don't see this as a game changer.

    At worst he never gets into the regular rotation (for any number of reasons) and we are what we have been for for the first 46 games of the season.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Danny has struggled with his shot for the past few games but he isn't far removed for 7 straight double figure games and even when his shot isn't falling he's still been good at driving with the ball and hits his foul shots. Danny needs to know he has consistant minutes and Vogel is over playing Paul and Lance. I'd still like to see Vogel make Danny the primary focus of the offense in the second unit which has never happened. Run Danny with GH at the 2 and Watson at the point for 10 minutes, then bring in Paul for GH. I'd like to see Danny get at least 25 minutes per game going forward.
    Danny should definitely be getting 25 minutes every game, while either Lance of Paul playing over 36 minutes should be more of an exception than a common occurrence.

    I'm not sure I am ready to make Danny the main focus of the bench offense. They force fed him some against the Nets, and it didn't working out very well. I do think his role does need to increase though.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    These are my first comments on this move. This doesn't excite me nor does it make me angry. I don't think this will make any real difference in whether we win a championship or not. Way too many ifs with Bynum. Sure the risk is minimal, but I see the reward as marginal at best.

    Bynum has not been in basketball shape for two seasons now, I doubt he is going to get into shape over the next few weeks.

    At best he is a better backup than Ian and can provide some low post scoring off the bench playing 10-15 minutes per game. And sure there is some value in that, I don't see this as a game changer.

    At worst he never gets into the regular rotation (for any number of reasons) and we are what we have been for for the first 46 games of the season.
    If he makes it into the rotation I am thinking it will be more, give up a little defense for some better offense. He isn't as nimble as Mahinmi, and certainly won't be in the best shape of his life. You also have to wonder how well he will do at verticality. So I doubt he will be as effective as Mahinmi in our defensive system, but he is more of an offensive threat simply because he probably has better hands.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Some points:

    1) Risk Analysis: One of the factors when doing risk analysis is to combine the DAMAGE a risk coming true would bring with the PROBABILITY of each level of damage. In this case, the worst case scenario (that Bynum comes in and completely disrupts the team) is unlikely because of the very cheapness and short length of his contract - first sign of trouble and the Pacers FO demonstrates their support for the existing locker room by booting Bynum to the baseboard. Were we investing some huge amount of money or needing to arrange a fancy trade to get him out of here, that risk becomes more likely.

    2) Why push Bynum so quickly? Because, as was said, this answers the people who might think the Pacers aren't going for it all this year. Bynum is a recognizable name who was brought in for a final push - that's a significant step this franchise is not known for taking. Does it sell tickets? Well, the STH renewal period isn't too far off - but, marketing cynicism aside, it's also a legitimate move to make when going for it all.

    3) What would PD have thought if he'd gone to the Heat? I think anyone reading the copious posts during speculation would have to come away with the idea that those who thought he would disrupt their locker room were very definitely balanced out by those who thought it would about guarantee them the championship. I would even venture to say MORE people were concerned about him helping the Heat than were certain he'd drag them down, while it seems like we are raising a lot more concerns about dragging US down than ever were pointed out for the Heat. Maybe it is because we feel our success is due much more to chemistry than talent, which I think has been mentioned, but ultimately it goes against the idea that Bynum is being overvalued because he is wearing Blue & Gold.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    When can we expect Bynum to play?
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishPacer View Post
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    When can we expect Bynum to play?
    Probably towards the end of February. Maybe sooner.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Bynum has not been in basketball shape for two seasons now, I doubt he is going to get into shape over the next few weeks.

    At best he is a better backup than Ian and can provide some low post scoring off the bench playing 10-15 minutes per game. And sure there is some value in that, I don't see this as a game changer.
    He averaged 20 minutes a game with Cleveland and put up better numbers than Mahinmi. I think part of his problem was that he was paid starter money ($12 million) but only giving backup production. Not sure if that was due to conditioning or attitude or what. His numbers would have been considered very good for a backup. So I'm hoping he continues to give that same level of production to the Pacers now that he is paid like a backup. And I hope he raises his field goal percentage now that he's part of a more mature team. He should get less double teams and if he is doubled, his assist numbers show he should be able to get the ball to an open player.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    I hope being with a good team, in more ways than wins and losses, gets the most out AB. With Lance there to throw him passes I am very interested in watching that play out. Ian just cannot catch the ball. He is a good defender but that is about it. I am very tired of watching our team make so many interior passes to another player 3 feet away, that turn into turnovers. Just shoot the ball please.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Danny should definitely be getting 25 minutes every game, while either Lance of Paul playing over 36 minutes should be more of an exception than a common occurrence.

    I'm not sure I am ready to make Danny the main focus of the bench offense. They force fed him some against the Nets, and it didn't working out very well. I do think his role does need to increase though.




    Moving Danny for a guard who can back up Lance makes sense to cut down on his 36 mpg. Copeland would slide in to back up PG. Unless Vogel is willing to move Danny down to backup 2, and Copeland to back up 3.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Moving Danny for a guard who can back up Lance makes sense to cut down on his 36 mpg. Copeland would slide in to back up PG. Unless Vogel is willing to move Danny down to backup 2, and Copeland to back up 3.
    I'm more concerned about Paul's minutes than I am about Lances. When Lance starts to show a huge drop off in his game, then maybe we can take it in to consideration. Otherwise, I think 35 minutes a night minimum is fine for him.
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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    He averaged 20 minutes a game with Cleveland and put up better numbers than Mahinmi. I think part of his problem was that he was paid starter money ($12 million) but only giving backup production. Not sure if that was due to conditioning or attitude or what. His numbers would have been considered very good for a backup. So I'm hoping he continues to give that same level of production to the Pacers now that he is paid like a backup. And I hope he raises his field goal percentage now that he's part of a more mature team. He should get less double teams and if he is doubled, his assist numbers show he should be able to get the ball to an open player.
    Except for the part where his team was 10.1 points better with him on the bench than they were with him on the court. If Cleveland was a winning team it wouldn't be a big deal, but Cleveland currently is tied for the 6th worst record in the league.

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    Default Re: So what was Andrew's Bynum's conduct detrimental to the team??

    Why are we only focusing on what happened in Cleveland. He was a little bit of a problem in LA and he didn't show much desire to get into shape and play for the Sixers either.

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    Default Re: 02/01/14 Update: Andrew Bynum is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Except for the part where his team was 10.1 points better with him on the bench than they were with him on the court.
    But why was that? What does it mean? Is it a reflection on him or the way the other players tried to play with him? Were his teammates getting open so he could pass the ball back out when he got doubled? Was he having to force shots because he didn't have any better options? I don't know. I do know that his rebound and assist numbers were better than Mahinmi's. More blocks and less fouls. Looks promising to me.

    ........MPG ..FG% .FT% RPG APG SPG BPG TO .PF .PPG
    Bynum.. 20.0 .419 .762 5.3 1.1 .30 1.2 1.3 1.2 8.4
    Mahinmi 16.0 .424 .622 3.1 0.3 .60 0.9 0.8 2.7 3.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If Cleveland was a winning team it wouldn't be a big deal, but Cleveland currently is tied for the 6th worst record in the league.
    Even without the suspension, I suspect that they would have traded him or cut him anyway because he wasn't living up to the contract. But that's why they signed him to a contract with only a $6 million guarantee. He was a low risk, high reward signing for them. But they didn't get the reward they hoped for.

    Coming off the bench for the Pacers he should be facing other backups. There's no reason not to think he can continue to give 20 minutes a game. And if his production matches what he did in Cleveland we'll be thrilled.
    Last edited by Strummer; 02-03-2014 at 11:41 AM. Reason: better phrasing, maybe.

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