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Thread: Possible lineup changes?

  1. #26
    Member RWB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't think anyone is saying that he's the answer on a consistent basis. But on a night like last night where everyone off the bench was garbage, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to throw him out there and see if he could have got anything going. It just seems stubborn of Vogel to completely refuse to play him under any circumstances aside from garbage time.
    Yes!!! And I think we all understand Frank is a big believer in letting players know (at least those who play) how many minutes they'll usually get and at what point they normally will be put into the game. Just seems we've seen this movie before and Frank may not have the will/heart to shake things from time to time. Is he gun shy from what he witnessed before becoming the head coach?
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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    82 games makes for a long season. Naturally, players will have hot and cold streaks. No need to make major adjustments to the rotation based on hot or cold streaks. Granger will be huge for us come playoff time, Scola will hit shots when it matters, and there is no reason to make any changes. What's so encouraging is that even with this room for improvement, we still own the number one spot in the East - our regular season goal from day one.

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    As opposed to the brilliant defense being played of late, though? I think it's an in-game thing. If defense is out the window anyway, as it has been far too often in the last 4-5 games, you may as well give him some burn.
    I feel like the defense is as much of a problem as anything lately, so I'm not sure adding Cope to the mix is a good idea for that reason. I'd wait to put him in when the defense is going great but the offense is struggling. Not while the defense is part of the problem.

    And even then, keep in mind his best position is PF so you're taking minutes from Scola, or you're playing Scola at the 5. Both have consequences. Particularly Scola at the 5.

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  7. #29
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Pacers need to adjust their defensive scheme alittle bit here. George Hill can't keep infront of anybody and that means Hibbert can't freeze the PnR like he normally able to when Hill is able to keep up with his man. Thats the whole reason the Pacers are able to control the PnR with a large slow center. When Hibberts steps up the typical point guard thinks he is about dribble right into a double team because Hill is still with him. Thus causing the Freeze. These speedy Points just keep going. I think Hibbert has to commit to trap the High PnR and force the ball out like they do against guys like D. Rose.

    Hill has to be playing with some sort of nagging Hip flexior or Hammy type of injury, cause just a couple weeks ago they were blowing up the PnR on guys like John Wall
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  9. #30
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I feel like the defense is as much of a problem as anything lately, so I'm not sure adding Cope to the mix is a good idea for that reason. I'd wait to put him in when the defense is going great but the offense is struggling. Not while the defense is part of the problem.

    And even then, keep in mind his best position is PF so you're taking minutes from Scola, or you're playing Scola at the 5. Both have consequences. Particularly Scola at the 5.
    I get what you're saying, but the defense is struggling (big men wise) because they're not used to playing out on the perimeter. What good is Roy to have to guard Channing Frye out at the 3pt line? He can't protect the rim without leaving him on the arc.

    All PHX did was stretch out the defense and make Roy/Ian/West/Luis become perimeter defenders, which negates their defensive strengths.
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    And even then, keep in mind his best position is PF so you're taking minutes from Scola
    Right now, given Scola's play on both ends, is this a bad thing? That's exactly what I was saying should have happened last night.

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  13. #32
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    I think this team is amazing, and for the most part they just need to work it out... but there is one thing that I just don't get:

    The team looks a little gassed sometimes, which is hard for me to understand because they haven't played any more games than any other team, they have a lot of young guys... and they have a lot of guys. This team should be able to go full-court all the time.

    It's just weird to me that CD and QB kept referring to it being a tough game after a road trip... a road-trip that they struggled on from the outset, not as it went on. I don't remember the Miller-led Pacer teams having these back-to-back troubles, or road troubles with fatigue. They really do seem to struggle with fatigue. Perhaps it's the style of ball they play, where the additional effort on D takes more out of you? I can sort of see that. But also, the human body tends to adjust accordingly to however much stress you put on it. You look at the great players and they never seem to get tired, despite playing huge minutes, both sides of the ball, no matter where they play, on back-to-backs. I think sometimes our guys don't quite push themselves as far as they are capable, in terms of conditioning. I could see Reggie walking in to this locker-room and running them out of the gym. His conditioning was just phenomenal.

    Lack of execution in a team that normally executes, in my opinion, can usually be traced back to fatigue. Hell, I'm the perfect example. When I play some pick-up ball, I usually play *really* well for about the first 10-15 minutes. Then, because I'm an out-of-shape, middle-aged, past-my-prime old man, I lose my mojo and I play like ****, doubled over gasping for air and my legs are shot. It's all about energy/conditioning for me. If I have it, I'm going to play well. These young bucks don't stand a chance against me... for about 10 minutes. Then they walk all over me.

    I understand the schedule is grueling, but it's always been grueling. It hasn't changed in decades. I just don't remember "fatigue" being such a subject of talk in years past.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-31-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I get what you're saying, but the defense is struggling (big men wise) because they're not used to playing out on the perimeter. What good is Roy to have to guard Channing Frye out at the 3pt line? He can't protect the rim without leaving him on the arc.

    All PHX did was stretch out the defense and make Roy/Ian/West/Luis become perimeter defenders, which negates their defensive strengths.
    I don't say that because of the PHX games alone, but also SAC and DEN. I just feel like we're not playing our best on that side of the ball in general, plus on top of that the mismatches hurt.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Right now, given Scola's play on both ends, is this a bad thing? That's exactly what I was saying should have happened last night.
    It is to me because I don't want to play 3 guys at one position on a regular basis, and I'd rather just be patient with Scola and let him find his shot again. If this were the playoffs, I might feel differently, but even then it's just higher risk/reward.

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't think anyone is saying that he's the answer on a consistent basis. But on a night like last night where everyone off the bench was garbage, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to throw him out there and see if he could have got anything going. It just seems stubborn of Vogel to completely refuse to play him under any circumstances aside from garbage time.

    but see that is the problem with bench players. They get limited minutes to begin with and when do you realize they aren't going to play well? And by the time you realize they aren't playing well it is usually time to put the starters back in anyway. OK you say well then play different guys in the second half, OK, but that is a horrible way to build a bench throughout the regular season. Maybe in a playoff game you can do that, but you need to use the regular season to build a bench.

    Plus hpow many times have we seen a bench player not play well in the first half, but then play well in the second. That happens a lot.

    I think as a coach in the regular season you need to have a regular rotation of 9 guys. Play them mold them into a great team. Not changing who the 9 players are from game to game, IMO that doesn't work well

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  18. #36

    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Id like to see us bench the starters sooner if they are sleepwalking. Other than that im not sure

  19. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It is to me because I don't want to play 3 guys at one position on a regular basis, and I'd rather just be patient with Scola and let him find his shot again. If this were the playoffs, I might feel differently, but even then it's just higher risk/reward.
    With Scola, it's a big deal that his shot is off, though, because that's more or less all he has. "He'll work his way through it" is basically saying "I'm willing to concede effective defensive play from the 4 while the same player is now offering nothing on offense".

    Not trying to bash Scola. He's a one-trick pony at this stage in his career, but he's a really effective one-trick pony when he's on, which has been more often than not this season. I also just don't pretend the defensive drop-off from Scola to Copeland is steep (if existent at all), so it really just does come down to who you trust more on offense.

  20. #38
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    With Scola, it's a big deal that his shot is off, though, because that's more or less all he has. "He'll work his way through it" is basically saying "I'm willing to concede effective defensive play from the 4 while the same player is now offering nothing on offense".

    Not trying to bash Scola. He's a one-trick pony at this stage in his career, but he's a really effective one-trick pony when he's on, which has been more often than not this season. I also just don't pretend the defensive drop-off from Scola to Copeland is steep (if existent at all), so it really just does come down to who you trust more on offense.
    Scola is much less of a one trick pony than Copeland is. Cope can shoot threes, that's it. Scola, while admittedly being an atrocious defender, gets rebounds, tips rebounds out to teammates, seems to be in the right place for offensive spacing purposes, and he has a crafty post scoring game that isn't pretty, but effective more often than not. He hasn't played well lately, but it's a minor blip.

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  22. #39
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Copeland is getting the back-up QB treatment.

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  24. #40
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Paul just needs to get it going, he's shooting terrible. As goes Paul the team will follow.
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  26. #41

    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Scola is much less of a one trick pony than Copeland is. Cope can shoot threes, that's it. Scola, while admittedly being an atrocious defender, gets rebounds, tips rebounds out to teammates, seems to be in the right place for offensive spacing purposes, and he has a crafty post scoring game that isn't pretty, but effective more often than not. He hasn't played well lately, but it's a minor blip.
    I don't think we've seen enough of Copeland to really know.

    (Maybe there's a reason for that.)

    He's basically told to go in on mop-up duty and bomb threes. When he has attacked the rim, I've actually thought he's looked OK.

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  28. #42
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    I don't think we've seen enough of Copeland to really know.

    (Maybe there's a reason for that.)

    He's basically told to go in on mop-up duty and bomb threes. When he has attacked the rim, I've actually thought he's looked OK.
    I seen plenty of him last year, he is fine where he's at,...on the bench
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    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  29. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I don't think Cope is the answer. His defense isn't good.
    You're saying this knowing Scola isn't any better on D

  30. #44
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    The offense has been fine last 3 losses: 100, 96, 94

    the defense is the struggle guys not dialed in to their man, seeing guys watch the ball and letting shooters free. It has been happening too much. Even with Paul's struggles those are more than enough points to win if the defense is on point.

  31. #45
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Pacers playing .500 ball right now. Last time they played :500 ball was the last West Conference Road trip. Where they came home and lost to Detroit who was on a roll. Then went to Miami and lost a hard fought game. Pacers really need to show up against the Nets who are also on a roll. Pacers need to buck this trend!
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  32. #46

    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Pacers playing .500 ball right now. Last time they played :500 ball was the last West Conference Road trip. Where they came home and lost to Detroit who was on a roll. Then went to Miami and lost a hard fought game. Pacers really need to show up against the Nets who are also on a roll. Pacers need to buck this trend!
    Thought we beat Miami after the last West coast trip.

  33. #47

    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    I'm trying to think of a time when Donald Sloan was in the game and he didn't look good. . .

    . . . .


    . . . .

  34. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyhound80 View Post
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    I'm trying to think of a time when Donald Sloan was in the game and he didn't look good. . .

    . . . .


    . . . .

    I am trying to think of a time when he played meaningful minutes. has to be the few games Hill was out, but that was the second week of the season. Well over two months ago. I think he's a decent player, probably good enough to be a good backup. But he's not nearly as good as Watson

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  36. #49
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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    The only change I would make wouldn't happen until next season....

    Let Lance run the point, bring in a vet sharp shooter to start at the 2 and use G Hill to backup both spots.

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    Default Re: Possible lineup changes?

    Well, we made a lineup change after all.

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