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Thread: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...ounds/4988905/

    Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    By Candace Buckner, candace.buckner@indystar.com 8:24 a.m. EST January 29, 2014


    LOS ANGELES – Sharing in basketball can be more than just teammates passing the ball. The frontcourt players for the Indiana Pacers often find themselves sharing space underneath the glass.

    There's an anomaly on the Indiana roster. Guard Lance Stephenson (7.0 rebounds per game) averages almost as many boards as 7-2 center Roy Hibbert (7.8). Stephenson's numbers have also trumped power forward David West (6.6 rebounds), but Pacers coach Frank Vogel explains this discrepancy.

    "Lance steals them all from Roy anyway," Vogel said. "Roy is ready to get them and Lance comes in from the 3-point line off two feet. We all compete for the glass. We have all five guys on the defensive glass."

    The Pacers rank just above the middle of pack in rebounding, averaging 53.3 per game compared to their league-best 54.5 average during the 2012-13 season.

    "This is indicative of the sacrifice of this team," Vogel said. "A lot of times, (the bigs), they're sacrificing themselves to wipe out the best rebounders on the other team while the guards come back and get the numbers.

    "It's a sacrifice," Vogel continued, "more than anything."

    No Laker love

    Although it's rare, the fact that Paul George did not grow up as a Lakers fan makes some sense. While George hails from California, his hometown of Palmdale will never be confused as Los Angeles.

    However, George isn't the only Southern California native inside the Pacers' locker room who as a child could not have cared less about the Lakers.

    Rookie Solomon Hill – a true Los Angeles native – felt no nostalgia in playing against the legendary hometown team for the first time.

    "No, definitely not," Hill responded when asked if he grew up a Lakers fan. "I didn't really have a team.

    "I never really liked the Lakers."

    Before anyone labels Hill a "hater," understand his reasons. Hill, who has been praised for his maturity at the young age of 22, watched NBA games and carried aspirations of becoming a professional basketball player as a kid. Since he rarely noticed rookies playing for the Lakers, Hill scratched the team off his list.

    "I never was a Lakers fan," Hill said. "I'm thinking as a player and not as a fan what team I would want to go to and the Lakers (were) never really that team.

    "It all comes with winning championships. You don't have time to develop rookies because you're trying to win every year and I understand that, but as a player you want to be some place that will let you develop."

    Coincidentally, Hill has landed on a team with similarly high expectations as those previous Lakers teams. As the Pacers push for a run to the title, the rotation consists of veterans and leaves little playing time for the younger players. For the 15th time, Hill was on the inactive list.

    Good bench, bad team

    Sometimes, numbers lie.

    Last season, the Indiana bench stood out as a weakness as the reserves averaged the second fewest points in the NBA. But a high scoring clip does not necessarily equate to success.

    Before Tuesday night, the Lakers reserves have outscored opposing benches 32 times in 45 games and the unit ranks second overall in bench scoring at 41.6 points per game. However, the strong bench has not helped the overall team production.

    Los Angeles started the night tied for second worst record in the Western Conference. When asked if staying out of last place was a motivator, Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni quipped: "Because being 14th is great?"

    Call Star reporter Candace Buckner at (317) 444-6121. Follow her on Twitter: @CandaceDBuckner.
    Interesting turns of phrase. cf Troy Murphy...
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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    bumping since it was quoted in another thread.
    BillS

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Even Vogel recognizes the rebound stealing. I'll bet most of us have played basketball. There's a point where you're already in the air and you can't stop yourself and there's a point where you have time to see that your team mate has the board and you just box out. When you crash in from the 3 point line you should just box out for the guy that's closer instead. I'm glad Roy and West have a good attitude about it.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    I always figured this was an intentional strategy, since it gives Lance an opportunity to drive the ball up the court instead of depending on a passing lane that might not be there. This way he can make earlier decisions about what to do with the ball on a potential fast break.

    I don't think Lance is doing it to pad his rebound numbers and I'm sure the other players recognize that, surely this has been discussed in practice among the guys, they're a tight-knit group.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Exactly, this is nothing like the Troy Murphy situation.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    There's a really fascinating thread on RealGM related to this subject: RealGM • View topic - Rebound-tracking info should change how we view rebounders

    Here's the NBA.com link: NBA Stats - Player Tracking Rebounding Opportunities

    Basically, it's a stat that measures what percentage of a player's rebounds are contested, meaning an opposing player is within 3.5 feet. It's a tool used to separate the stat-padders (high rpg, low contested %) from the real deals (high rpg, high contested %). Of all players who have played at least 200 minutes, Roy has the fifth highest contested %. He could easily be viewed as an "elite" rebounder if he grabbed a few more gimmes, like Kevin Love does.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    There are so many time Roy will have a rebound lined up and Lance will come flying in underneath and jump up and grab it, I swear there are times Roy looks like he is going to club Lance in the head when he does this.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    There are so many time Roy will have a rebound lined up and Lance will come flying in underneath and jump up and grab it, I swear there are times Roy looks like he is going to club Lance in the head when he does this.
    Yeah I noticed this a lot during the road trip but since Lance is a willing passer on the offensive end, I don't think Roy or West mind him getting those boards.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    If I was a 7-2 mammoth, I would be thankful for every time I didn't have to jump up and come back down on my knees! Lance just might be prolonging careers

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    How is having your 6-5 SG becoming a rebounding monster a bad thing? I would rather have Lance crash than stand around or cherry pick
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    How is having your 6-5 SG becoming a rebounding monster a bad thing? I would rather have Lance crash than stand around or cherry pick
    Passes travel faster than running. In an ideal world, you'd have a player like Kevin Love outletting to Lance to start a break rather than depending on Lance to get the rebound, then beat everyone in a foot race.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Passes travel faster than running. In an ideal world, you'd have a player like Kevin Love outletting to Lance to start a break rather than depending on Lance to get the rebound, then beat everyone in a foot race.
    The funny thing is (pardon me while I open this can of worms) that's pretty much what Troy was supposed to do - get the rebound, get it to the ballhandler down the court, and trail the play to end up at the top of the arc for a 3 point shot.

    Now if I can just get those worms back ... in ... here ...
    BillS

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    As I usually say, defensive rebounds are an unimpressive stat to me. You are supposed to get those rebounds. Individual defensive rebound totals are mostly meaningless to me. The way Vogel has this rebound, we will most likely always be a good rebounding team, with wing players who are above average for their position. Offensive rebounds are what are important. Most particularly, offensive rebounds given up. As far as I can remember Roy doesn't give up a lot of offensive rebounds.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    I care a lot more about how the team is rebounding than I care about how any one player is adding up their individual total of rebounds.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Passes travel faster than running. In an ideal world, you'd have a player like Kevin Love outletting to Lance to start a break rather than depending on Lance to get the rebound, then beat everyone in a foot race.
    When you have a player that can advance the ball upcourt with the pass like Lance can it's better if he gets the rebound. Those couple seconds it takes to find the outlet and deliver the pass could cost the team a layup on the other end. Lance probably gets an assist a game with the lob over the top of the defense. You also eliminate the possibility of a turnover on the outlet pass.

    This has obviously been discussed and okayed by the coaches. It may annoy his teammates at times, but it's good strategy IMO.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    I've forgotten about the uproar that Troy Murphy's rebound-stealing caused, but for me all it indicated was that Murph's rebounding numbers (amongst other things) were inflated.

    All this tells me about Lance is that his rebounding numbers are probably inflated too. At least the team's defensive rebounding isn't suffering from all that rebound stealing. We're top in the league in DRB%. Alas, we could use some help on the ORB side, where we're only 20th (we were 4th in ORB% last year). Part of that is because we're simply shooting better this year. The other part is personnel - Roy, our best ORB guy, is having a somewhat down year in rebounding, and we lost our second best ORB guy last year (Psycho T). Btw, this area is probably where we're missing Plumlee. He didn't do much for us last year but he was a monster on the boards (in limited minutes) and he's proving this year that it wasn't a fluke in Phoenix.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Lance's rebounding numbers are absolutely inflated. He benefits greatly from Hibbert. Lance is still an elite rebounder for a guard though. There are probably 2 boards a game that should easily be Hibbert's that Lance grabs. Its not a big deal though. If it was, it would have stopped by now. I think Roy gets a little miffed in the moment sometimes, but thats more because he doesn't see Lance coming at all those times, so its like, damn dude.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers compete with each other for rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The funny thing is (pardon me while I open this can of worms) that's pretty much what Troy was supposed to do - get the rebound, get it to the ballhandler down the court, and trail the play to end up at the top of the arc for a 3 point shot.

    Now if I can just get those worms back ... in ... here ...
    I just remember how many time Troy pissed off Jeff Foster for a defensive rebound on a missed free throw.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 01-30-2014 at 06:53 PM.

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