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Thread: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I'm all in for Lowry. Getting old watching Hill get torched by every PG he plays against
    You don't hold the best defensive rating at your position by getting torched every game.

    He's only allowed 1.1 point per possession or more in 7 of 40 games. Allowed 1.05 PPP or more in 14 games(perspective, Paul George has 10 games with 1.05 or more PPP, Lance has 12.)

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Our recent road trip alone has exposed Hill. Curry, Dragic, Isiah, and Lawson have all outplayed GH. Would be nice to occasionally have a matchup advantage at the PG position
    5 games is a better sample size than 40. Got it.

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Cant fault GHill when he plays against Curry, They set countless illegal screen on Hill all night long.
    But I did think he look completely over matched against the Dragic, who in my opinion is a top 5 pg.
    Isiah Thomas made him took like a turn style, he got so much separation from Hill and was just drilling fade aways.
    Ty Lawson, this guy is just good. One of the smallest players in the league and he just seems to find every open seam to get the basket. You'd think Hill with his length could contain him but no. Very frustrating, because we say man Hill should be good in containing the PNR, but yet he is getting abused by these smaller guards on a nightly basis.


    I think alot of people are just asking what happened to the George Hill from the start of last season. You know the one who was winning games for us? That George Hill was really good!
    Last edited by graphic-er; 01-28-2014 at 01:56 PM.
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    The one Miami Heat fan I interact with on twitter thinks it is completely ridiculous that so many are trying to get rid of Hill from the Pacers. He thinks it is just like the Heat fans that are always trying to upgrade Chalmers.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Isaiah Thomas shot 31 times and made 13 shots.

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  10. #56
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Yet against Orlando in our playoff series while Hill was getting abused by Nelson, Collison had to come in and defended Nelson full court. Then against Miami, Collison was our best player and unlike Hill, was actually capable of defending Chalmers and Cole. Hill will have a good defensive outing, no doubt. But then he'll follow it up by giving up 25+ pts to his man the next game while being limited offensively to a spot up shooter. Yes, Hill outplayed Collison that game. But just because Paul George outplays LeBron in a game, doesn't make him better or equal to him. The Pacers would be in the exact same position they are currently in with Collison as their point guard. Cry foul all you want but I said the exact same garbage with Granger years ago, and guess what, we were actually BETTER without him. Very few guys in this league are irreplaceable.
    The Orlando Series? Really? Two years ago? Come on go back and watch it. Hill didn't play great, but Nelson didn't get shots in the paint either. I guess you are going to say that Roy got worked by Davis.

    And it the reason why most of the dumping on Hill happens was either the player was hot or Roy was in foul trouble. And why bring up Danny in the conversation? Really? What does he have to do with anything about this conversation?

    The fact of the matter is we are looking for chinks in the armor. You are on a witch hunt. And for goodness sakes if Hill floats he must be a witch.


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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Sigh. Are people really blaming Hill for going 2-2 in the last 4 games?

    Fact #1: Hill got injured in the GSW game. He was a game-time decision for the game against the Suns but ended up playing.

    Fact #2: Stephen Curry, one of the league's best shooters, went 3-11 from 3 against us. Some of it was Paul George but most of it was due to George Hill.

    Fact #3: Yes, Goran Dragic outplayed him. Goran is a very good player and he was amazing against us. However, Gerald Green and Markieff Morris outplayed their counterparts (Lance Stephenson and Luis Scola respectively) by a lot more. Hill wasn't the reason that we lost to the Suns. If anything, he was one of the few reasons (along with Paul George) that we didn't lose this game by 50 points. Remember, Hill scored 16 points on 4 shots.

    Fact #4: Yes, Isaiah Thomas (a very good offensive player) scored 38 points. However, how many shots did he need to get his 38? He needed 31 shots and only made 13 of them. Isaiah played great but he wasn't the reason that the Kings were so close. That reason was Marcus Thornton. Remember, Thornton scored 42 points on 27 shots and went 7-15 from 3. He was our real problem in that game.

    Fact #5: Ty Lawson had a fairly good game with 12 points on 11 shots and 10 assists. He wasn't the reason that we lost, though. Wilson Chandler scored a season-high 25 points on 15 shots. He was the one that made key baskets when we had closed the gap in the third quarter and he was their MVP in that game.

    Seriously, I don't really get how people can blame Hill for Gerald Green, Marcus Thornton and Wilson Chandler having season best games against us. That's on our wings.
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I blame Hill for the Polar Vortex, my American Express bill, and the decline of Western Civilization.
    BillS

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Sigh. Are people really blaming Hill for going 2-2 in the last 4 games?

    Fact #1: Hill got injured in the GSW game. He was a game-time decision for the game against the Suns but ended up playing.

    Fact #2: Stephen Curry, one of the league's best shooters, went 3-11 from 3 against us. Some of it was Paul George but most of it was due to George Hill.

    Fact #3: Yes, Goran Dragic outplayed him. Goran is a very good player and he was amazing against us. However, Gerald Green and Markieff Morris outplayed their counterparts (Lance Stephenson and Luis Scola respectively) by a lot more. Hill wasn't the reason that we lost to the Suns. If anything, he was one of the few reasons (along with Paul George) that we didn't lose this game by 50 points. Remember, Hill scored 16 points on 4 shots.

    Fact #4: Yes, Isaiah Thomas (a very good offensive player) scored 38 points. However, how many shots did he need to get his 38? He needed 31 shots and only made 13 of them. Isaiah played great but he wasn't the reason that the Kings were so close. That reason was Marcus Thornton. Remember, Thornton scored 42 points on 27 shots and went 7-15 from 3. He was our real problem in that game.

    Fact #5: Ty Lawson had a fairly good game with 12 points on 11 shots and 10 assists. He wasn't the reason that we lost, though. Wilson Chandler scored a season-high 25 points on 15 shots. He was the one that made key baskets when we had closed the gap in the third quarter and he was their MVP in that game.

    Seriously, I don't really get how people can blame Hill for Gerald Green, Marcus Thornton and Wilson Chandler having season best games against us. That's on our wings.
    Because if there's no one to blame then WHAT DO WE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    If you swapped these two dudes at the start of the year, Hill and Lowry, and kept everything else about Toronto and Indy equal this thread would be all about how we should trade Lowry for Hill, but I think the Pacers would have a worse record.

    There is a major, major difference between what Lowry is asked to do in Toronto (and allowed to do for that matter), and what Hill is made to do in Indiana.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    As much as I feel Hill is overhyped for his so called "great" "D", I wouldn't trade Hill for Lowry. Hill has a problem guarding PG's with quix and speed, but Lowry doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling at PG. Sorry.

    The only advantage I see in a trade involving Hill and Lowry is getting rid of Hill's contract 3 years earlier and having more money to use towards Stephenson. Otherwise, I'm not interested Lowry.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Sigh. Are people really blaming Hill for going 2-2 in the last 4 games?
    As someone said early in the season....GH will be the scapegoat for the entire season for everything wrong with this Team. Why? cuz the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    If you swapped these two dudes at the start of the year, Hill and Lowry, and kept everything else about Toronto and Indy equal this thread would be all about how we should trade Lowry for Hill, but I think the Pacers would have a worse record.

    There is a major, major difference between what Lowry is asked to do in Toronto (and allowed to do for that matter), and what Hill is made to do in Indiana.
    I'm not saying that GH is the best option for the Team....but people just look at #s that Players put up and think that you can just plug and Play any PG into that Player into Vogel's system and make it work. DJ was putting up garbage #s in this system....now he's on an equally plodding but different defense/offense under Thibadou and he's doing great. Why is that? cuz the offense/defense is run differently and requires a different type of Player...one that Players like DJ wasn't capable of being.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Actually someone did a stat analysis on DJ, his shooting #'s in ind and Chi are nearly identical but his effective FG% has gone up, why you might ask? Basically he's taking 1.5 extra 3's a game that's the only reason.

    I think the better example of DJ rather than IND DJ to Chi DJ is Char DJ to Ind DJ.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Hill, Granger, and Ian are the only players you really can't criticize on this board. Roy is a distant fourth.

    Edit: Hill is an average defender and subpar point guard we can definitely upgrade the position with a guy like Lowry and my dream pickup Dragic. When DJ got to play with the starters last year he was a totally different player.
    Last edited by Magic P; 01-28-2014 at 08:07 PM.

  26. #66

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    If we have to give up any of our starting 5, this is a solid no from me. Keep these 5 together for as long as we can!

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Hill, Granger, and Ian are the only players you really can't criticize on this board. Roy is a distant fourth.
    Actually, every player can be criticized as long as you can back your criticisms with any kind of data and analysis.

    When you're not interested in bringing in data or any kind of analysis into an argument then don't be surprised when it's shot down
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    When DJ got to play with the starters last year he was a totally different player.
    ...he was? To me he was still a streaky shooting, tiny point guard who played abhorrent defense. His assist numbers and open looks might have gone up a tick (I don't care to check), but he was still the same player. His warts just got covered up more.

    To all those *****ing about Hill: Why do some of the best minds in basketball want him on their team? Go back and read some of the stories about how painful it was for Popovich to trade Hill. Bird had tried to pry him loose for years. The guy does whatever he needs to do to help his team win. He's not asked to play a big role on this team; we simply don't need him to. He's fantastic at what he does, even if it's not sexy and doesn't help him put up great individual stats.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I'd give up Cope and Hill just as a salary dump then sign someone like Chalmers next year since MIA can only offer $3.5M MLE. All we really need is someone that can bring the ball up the court and hit a few outside shots; $8M for a PG in our system is probably overpaying.

    I'd hate to see it have an effect on chemistry, but it may be the move needed to keep Lance. If we're disrupting team chemistry, I'd rather lose Hill than Lance and that's $11M it clears up for next season.
    Last edited by Karlton; 01-28-2014 at 08:51 PM.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The guy does whatever he needs to do to help his team win. He's not asked to play a big role on this team; we simply don't need him to. He's fantastic at what he does, even if it's not sexy and doesn't help him put up great individual stats.
    I don't know if that's being argued.

    The part that's being argued is $8M per year is a lot to pay someone who doesn't play a big role on the team.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Hill's our starting point guard, guard, whatever you want to call it, and plays the 3rd most minutes. He absolutely plays a big role.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Hill's our starting point guard, guard, whatever you want to call it, and plays the 3rd most minutes. He absolutely plays a big role.
    I agree. I understand TOs is an issue, but his shooting ability is a key for us and he can defend pretty well
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Hill's our starting point guard, guard, whatever you want to call it, and plays the 3rd most minutes. He absolutely plays a big role.
    I meant in terms of scoring points and creating offense, which is what I most often see people complain about with him. But yeah, you're right.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    I agree. I understand TOs is an issue, but his shooting ability is a key for us and he can defend pretty well
    And to add more to it, Hill doesn't even contribute to our TO problem. He only commits 1.3 TOs per game and he plays 31.3 minutes.
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Hill, Granger, and Ian are the only players you really can't criticize on this board. Roy is a distant fourth.

    Edit: Hill is an average defender and subpar point guard we can definitely upgrade the position with a guy like Lowry and my dream pickup Dragic. When DJ got to play with the starters last year he was a totally different player.
    This is sarcasm right? This has to be sarcasm. There's a thread each week trying to replace Hill or Ian. And Danny has gotten more than his fair share of criticism.

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