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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

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ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

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  • #46
    Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Originally posted by croz24 View Post
    Well, Collison was pretty damn solid for the Pacers when he was here and this year as a starter for the Clippers has outperformed Hill, statistically, in just about every category.
    Sure. But stats aren't a good way to evaluate our starters; each player has fewer points than they'd have other places because there are so many scorers to go around.

    You think Roy can't score more? West?
    This space for rent.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

      It might be too late.

      Lowry and Dragic could have been a Pacer in the off-season for MUCH cheaper.

      Those guys are studs compared to Hill.
      Last edited by The Future; 01-28-2014, 02:18 PM.

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      • #48
        Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

        I will not be surprised if Kendall Marshall outplay Hill tonight. No reason a PG off the street should perform better than G Hill
        Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

          Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
          Did you watch the Clippers game when Hill shut Darren down. Look I get the dollars and cents argument. But Darren did not play well in this system. How many more times does Roy and West have to say that they are a better defensive team when the point guard can fight through the pick. Darren and DJ can't. There is a reason why they cost 6 million less. They might play the passing lanes and get you 4 points on fast breaks. But then they get torched and break down their teammates assignments and cost the team 20+ points.
          Yet against Orlando in our playoff series while Hill was getting abused by Nelson, Collison had to come in and defended Nelson full court. Then against Miami, Collison was our best player and unlike Hill, was actually capable of defending Chalmers and Cole. Hill will have a good defensive outing, no doubt. But then he'll follow it up by giving up 25+ pts to his man the next game while being limited offensively to a spot up shooter. Yes, Hill outplayed Collison that game. But just because Paul George outplays LeBron in a game, doesn't make him better or equal to him. The Pacers would be in the exact same position they are currently in with Collison as their point guard. Cry foul all you want but I said the exact same garbage with Granger years ago, and guess what, we were actually BETTER without him. Very few guys in this league are irreplaceable.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

            Originally posted by Anthem View Post
            Sure. But stats aren't a good way to evaluate our starters; each player has fewer points than they'd have other places because there are so many scorers to go around.

            You think Roy can't score more? West?
            You are exactly right, and I hate using stats as an argument. I used them strictly as a means to illustrate that Collison isn't some bum when he's been allowed to play. He actually shoots at high %s, plays solid defense, defends the full length of the court, and is a willing passer.

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            • #51
              Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

              Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
              I'm all in for Lowry. Getting old watching Hill get torched by every PG he plays against
              You don't hold the best defensive rating at your position by getting torched every game.

              He's only allowed 1.1 point per possession or more in 7 of 40 games. Allowed 1.05 PPP or more in 14 games(perspective, Paul George has 10 games with 1.05 or more PPP, Lance has 12.)

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              • #52
                Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
                Our recent road trip alone has exposed Hill. Curry, Dragic, Isiah, and Lawson have all outplayed GH. Would be nice to occasionally have a matchup advantage at the PG position
                5 games is a better sample size than 40. Got it.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                  Cant fault GHill when he plays against Curry, They set countless illegal screen on Hill all night long.
                  But I did think he look completely over matched against the Dragic, who in my opinion is a top 5 pg.
                  Isiah Thomas made him took like a turn style, he got so much separation from Hill and was just drilling fade aways.
                  Ty Lawson, this guy is just good. One of the smallest players in the league and he just seems to find every open seam to get the basket. You'd think Hill with his length could contain him but no. Very frustrating, because we say man Hill should be good in containing the PNR, but yet he is getting abused by these smaller guards on a nightly basis.


                  I think alot of people are just asking what happened to the George Hill from the start of last season. You know the one who was winning games for us? That George Hill was really good!
                  Last edited by graphic-er; 01-28-2014, 02:56 PM.
                  You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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                  • #54
                    Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                    The one Miami Heat fan I interact with on twitter thinks it is completely ridiculous that so many are trying to get rid of Hill from the Pacers. He thinks it is just like the Heat fans that are always trying to upgrade Chalmers.


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                    • #55
                      Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                      Isaiah Thomas shot 31 times and made 13 shots.


                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                        Originally posted by croz24 View Post
                        Yet against Orlando in our playoff series while Hill was getting abused by Nelson, Collison had to come in and defended Nelson full court. Then against Miami, Collison was our best player and unlike Hill, was actually capable of defending Chalmers and Cole. Hill will have a good defensive outing, no doubt. But then he'll follow it up by giving up 25+ pts to his man the next game while being limited offensively to a spot up shooter. Yes, Hill outplayed Collison that game. But just because Paul George outplays LeBron in a game, doesn't make him better or equal to him. The Pacers would be in the exact same position they are currently in with Collison as their point guard. Cry foul all you want but I said the exact same garbage with Granger years ago, and guess what, we were actually BETTER without him. Very few guys in this league are irreplaceable.
                        The Orlando Series? Really? Two years ago? Come on go back and watch it. Hill didn't play great, but Nelson didn't get shots in the paint either. I guess you are going to say that Roy got worked by Davis.

                        And it the reason why most of the dumping on Hill happens was either the player was hot or Roy was in foul trouble. And why bring up Danny in the conversation? Really? What does he have to do with anything about this conversation?

                        The fact of the matter is we are looking for chinks in the armor. You are on a witch hunt. And for goodness sakes if Hill floats he must be a witch.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                          Sigh. Are people really blaming Hill for going 2-2 in the last 4 games?

                          Fact #1: Hill got injured in the GSW game. He was a game-time decision for the game against the Suns but ended up playing.

                          Fact #2: Stephen Curry, one of the league's best shooters, went 3-11 from 3 against us. Some of it was Paul George but most of it was due to George Hill.

                          Fact #3: Yes, Goran Dragic outplayed him. Goran is a very good player and he was amazing against us. However, Gerald Green and Markieff Morris outplayed their counterparts (Lance Stephenson and Luis Scola respectively) by a lot more. Hill wasn't the reason that we lost to the Suns. If anything, he was one of the few reasons (along with Paul George) that we didn't lose this game by 50 points. Remember, Hill scored 16 points on 4 shots.

                          Fact #4: Yes, Isaiah Thomas (a very good offensive player) scored 38 points. However, how many shots did he need to get his 38? He needed 31 shots and only made 13 of them. Isaiah played great but he wasn't the reason that the Kings were so close. That reason was Marcus Thornton. Remember, Thornton scored 42 points on 27 shots and went 7-15 from 3. He was our real problem in that game.

                          Fact #5: Ty Lawson had a fairly good game with 12 points on 11 shots and 10 assists. He wasn't the reason that we lost, though. Wilson Chandler scored a season-high 25 points on 15 shots. He was the one that made key baskets when we had closed the gap in the third quarter and he was their MVP in that game.

                          Seriously, I don't really get how people can blame Hill for Gerald Green, Marcus Thornton and Wilson Chandler having season best games against us. That's on our wings.
                          Originally posted by IrishPacer
                          Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                          • #58
                            Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                            I blame Hill for the Polar Vortex, my American Express bill, and the decline of Western Civilization.
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                              Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                              Sigh. Are people really blaming Hill for going 2-2 in the last 4 games?

                              Fact #1: Hill got injured in the GSW game. He was a game-time decision for the game against the Suns but ended up playing.

                              Fact #2: Stephen Curry, one of the league's best shooters, went 3-11 from 3 against us. Some of it was Paul George but most of it was due to George Hill.

                              Fact #3: Yes, Goran Dragic outplayed him. Goran is a very good player and he was amazing against us. However, Gerald Green and Markieff Morris outplayed their counterparts (Lance Stephenson and Luis Scola respectively) by a lot more. Hill wasn't the reason that we lost to the Suns. If anything, he was one of the few reasons (along with Paul George) that we didn't lose this game by 50 points. Remember, Hill scored 16 points on 4 shots.

                              Fact #4: Yes, Isaiah Thomas (a very good offensive player) scored 38 points. However, how many shots did he need to get his 38? He needed 31 shots and only made 13 of them. Isaiah played great but he wasn't the reason that the Kings were so close. That reason was Marcus Thornton. Remember, Thornton scored 42 points on 27 shots and went 7-15 from 3. He was our real problem in that game.

                              Fact #5: Ty Lawson had a fairly good game with 12 points on 11 shots and 10 assists. He wasn't the reason that we lost, though. Wilson Chandler scored a season-high 25 points on 15 shots. He was the one that made key baskets when we had closed the gap in the third quarter and he was their MVP in that game.

                              Seriously, I don't really get how people can blame Hill for Gerald Green, Marcus Thornton and Wilson Chandler having season best games against us. That's on our wings.
                              Because if there's no one to blame then WHAT DO WE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

                                If you swapped these two dudes at the start of the year, Hill and Lowry, and kept everything else about Toronto and Indy equal this thread would be all about how we should trade Lowry for Hill, but I think the Pacers would have a worse record.

                                There is a major, major difference between what Lowry is asked to do in Toronto (and allowed to do for that matter), and what Hill is made to do in Indiana.


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