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Thread: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

  1. #26

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    If we could do this for a combination of Hill + while likely having to take back a contract like Fields, I'd do it just to get out of Hill's contract. You could plug just about any point guard in with our starters, and they'd be at least capable.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    I dont think Larry has any interest at all in Lowry..I do however think he would like to do a Copeland for Kaman trade...
    The Lakers are gearing up for a huge free agent shopping spree in the offseason. Despite Kaman doing very little in LaLaLand....the last thing that the Lakers want to do is have what we currently are trying to get rid of.....Copeland's $3 mil 2014-2015 salary on their books.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    If we could do this for a combination of Hill + while likely having to take back a contract like Fields, I'd do it just to get out of Hill's contract. You could plug just about any point guard in with our starters, and they'd be at least capable.
    Why would u want to take on Landry Fields' contract? he's owed $6+ mil in 2014-2015.

    As for taking any PG and replacing him with GH.....thats not entirely true.

    Exhibit A - DJ Augustine
    Exhibit B - Darren Collison

    IMHO....you just can't plug and play any PG in this offense and defense. The offense and defense calls for a particular type of Guard....one that is tall and has length for his position...one that can handle and move the ball around...and one that can be effective "off the ball". Usually, this points to capable Combo-Guards...like GH and JCraw ( who Bird pursued a few seasons back )....not pure PGs who are ball dominant in order to be effective when on the floor.

    Maybe Lowry can do that....i honestly havent watched the Raptors play to know whether he's a good fit or not. But let's not pretend that we can just plug N play any PG into this system and expect the same...if not better results.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  5. #29

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Why would u want to take on Landry Fields' contract? he's owed $6+ mil in 2014-2015.

    As for taking any PG and replacing him with GH.....thats not entirely true.

    Exhibit A - DJ Augustine
    Exhibit B - Darren Collison
    Well, Collison was pretty damn solid for the Pacers when he was here and this year as a starter for the Clippers has outperformed Hill, statistically, in just about every category. DJ Augustin is not a good basketball player, and yet he looked at least solid playing alongside our starters last season. Point being, Lance, George, West, and Hibbert would make any point guard look solid. So why pay an average one $8mil per year?

    And taking on a contract like Fields while also trading away a guy like Copeland actually saves the Pacers money next season to provide them with more than enough to keep Lance and sign a solid point guard in the off season. Fields would also be in his final year next year, meaning he'd also be a tradable asset. Teams aren't simply lining up to take on Hill's contract given his mediocre production/ability, meaning the Pacers would have to take on somebody else in turn.

  6. #30
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I understand people want to improve the team, and George Hill isn't the pure PG that we would like to have, but what we have is working. We're the best team in the NBA currently.

    Larry isn't going to trade a core piece for someone who's going to just bolt after the year.

    I'd like to give this current team one more shot in the playoffs to see what they can do before I trade a starter. It's only year 3 of this current group, minus obviously Cope/Scola/CJ
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Strictly from a basketball standpoint. I like George Hill better defensively than I like Lowry offensively in a bubble. I also like GH with this group better than I like Lowry, much better. Only way Lowry ends up here is if GH gets an injury that ends his season, imo (knock on wood). I think GH is way underated in what he sacrifices in numbers to make the 'team' work here. I'm glad Larry understands fit as much a contract year stats. Think how the Pacers vs Golden State would have looked if Lowry was in GH's place, not pretty.
    Last edited by Speed; 01-28-2014 at 06:52 AM.

  8. #32
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    As a big fan of George Hill, I have to say I think Lowry is the better player. However, if we factor in chemistry, likely cost in trade value, and the fact that Lowry is going to be an FA, it all seems pretty iffy to me. The whole article is just speculation.

  9. #33
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Pass.
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  11. #34
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    For what its worth, Lowry is a good defender. I'm not sure what the contrary statements are based on.
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  12. #35

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    If we could do this for a combination of Hill + while likely having to take back a contract like Fields, I'd do it just to get out of Hill's contract. You could plug just about any point guard in with our starters, and they'd be at least capable.
    This is nonsense. In a league dominated by pick and roll offense and a lot of dangerous point guards, Hill is easily worth his contract. He's not just a good defender, he's a great one. He can defend big point guards like Deron Williams, and can also guard most speedsters, as well (nobody has shown that they can stay in front of Westbrook or Rose). Hibbert can be aggressive defensively because he doesn't have to defend a penetrator very often. If he gets called for a foul 33% of the time with our current defenders, he's unlikely to foul out. If you replace Hill with a replacement level defender, all of a sudden you'll have $25m in salary sitting on the bench because West and Hibbert will be in foul trouble. That makes it hard to stay "big" against some of these teams. He can also guard the 2 at a fairly high level, which is rare.

    Also, Hill shoots at a very good rate, which is key for floor spacing in our inside-out offense. In fact, the only thing that Hill doesn't do at an above average rate is attack the rim, which really isn't as important when you've got guys like Lance and Paul George on your team. He's really the perfect fit for this team, and could easily average 17 PPG on another team if he focused less on defense and more on getting his own shot.

    I'd much rather have George Hill on my team than Lowry in a contract year, as others have mentioned. In fact, I'd rather have Hill at his salary than Lance at $10m+, due to the Hill's stability and his ability to defend the primary point of attack.

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  14. #36
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    There is a reason no one can find a take for a PG averaging 17, 7, and 4 for a team over .500.... normally a guy like that on the market would be snapped up quickly, free agent or no.

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  15. #37

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I'd like Lowry on Indiana and maybe, with Hill's contract gone, and Danny expiring....we could negotiate with Kyle and Lance to keep both and remain under the tax. It would certainly make it easier. Plus, Butler, Ian, will be gone by season's end. People are talking about Landry Fields as filler.

    ESPN trade machine says Lowry and Steve Novak, for George Hill and Solomon Hill works. Solomon would be a good young piece for Toronto. Lowry would start for us obviously. Our bench would be...


    Scola
    Cope
    Ian
    Novak
    CJ




    ^Good shooters off that bench. No problems with scoring there. Could get us back into a lot of games quickly if we fall behind by double digits.






    Another version I did that works too is George Hill and Solomon Hill and Ian Mahinmi for Kyle Lowry and Amir Johnson. Amir Johnson would take care of our backup big man problems. He's better than Ian.




    Scola
    Cope
    Amir
    Danny
    CJ

  16. #38

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    This is nonsense. In a league dominated by pick and roll offense and a lot of dangerous point guards, Hill is easily worth his contract. He's not just a good defender, he's a great one. He can defend big point guards like Deron Williams, and can also guard most speedsters, as well (nobody has shown that they can stay in front of Westbrook or Rose). Hibbert can be aggressive defensively because he doesn't have to defend a penetrator very often. If he gets called for a foul 33% of the time with our current defenders, he's unlikely to foul out. If you replace Hill with a replacement level defender, all of a sudden you'll have $25m in salary sitting on the bench because West and Hibbert will be in foul trouble. That makes it hard to stay "big" against some of these teams. He can also guard the 2 at a fairly high level, which is rare.

    Also, Hill shoots at a very good rate, which is key for floor spacing in our inside-out offense. In fact, the only thing that Hill doesn't do at an above average rate is attack the rim, which really isn't as important when you've got guys like Lance and Paul George on your team. He's really the perfect fit for this team, and could easily average 17 PPG on another team if he focused less on defense and more on getting his own shot.

    I'd much rather have George Hill on my team than Lowry in a contract year, as others have mentioned. In fact, I'd rather have Hill at his salary than Lance at $10m+, due to the Hill's stability and his ability to defend the primary point of attack.




    Lowry has the capability to go off in games though. That's the thing. He would make opposing points and 2's in some cases have to work to guard him. Hill has a passive attitude most of the time, Lowry doesn't. He will light you up if you let him. One thing I don't like about Hill the most is his passive attitude. I remember the Portland game, we got a steal and had a chance to go up 1, being behind by two points. Hill had an open 3. He passed it up and tossed the ball to PG who was right beside him to his right. PG took the shot and missed. I want a PG who isn't afraid to take that open shot.

  17. #39
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    If we could do this for a combination of Hill + while likely having to take back a contract like Fields, I'd do it just to get out of Hill's contract. You could plug just about any point guard in with our starters, and they'd be at least capable.
    Just for suggesting taking on the absurd Landry Fields comment, you are never allowed to beleaguer the front office for the George Hill contract ever again.

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  19. #40
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Well, Collison was pretty damn solid for the Pacers when he was here and this year as a starter for the Clippers has outperformed Hill, statistically, in just about every category.
    Did you watch the Clippers game when Hill shut Darren down. Look I get the dollars and cents argument. But Darren did not play well in this system. How many more times does Roy and West have to say that they are a better defensive team when the point guard can fight through the pick. Darren and DJ can't. There is a reason why they cost 6 million less. They might play the passing lanes and get you 4 points on fast breaks. But then they get torched and break down their teammates assignments and cost the team 20+ points.

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  21. #41

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    And this is why i dont pay for insider

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  23. #42
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I'm all in for Lowry. Getting old watching Hill get torched by every PG he plays against
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Our recent road trip alone has exposed Hill. Curry, Dragic, Isiah, and Lawson have all outplayed GH. Would be nice to occasionally have a matchup advantage at the PG position
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Bird has to be getting frustrated knowing almost every other team will win the PG matchup. What's gonna happen vs Miami when Chalmers outplays Hill
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I know Hill is a good defender, but something is missing
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  27. #46
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Well, Collison was pretty damn solid for the Pacers when he was here and this year as a starter for the Clippers has outperformed Hill, statistically, in just about every category.
    Sure. But stats aren't a good way to evaluate our starters; each player has fewer points than they'd have other places because there are so many scorers to go around.

    You think Roy can't score more? West?
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  29. #47

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    It might be too late.

    Lowry and Dragic could have been a Pacer in the off-season for MUCH cheaper.

    Those guys are studs compared to Hill.
    Last edited by The Future; 01-28-2014 at 01:18 PM.

  30. #48
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    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    I will not be surprised if Kendall Marshall outplay Hill tonight. No reason a PG off the street should perform better than G Hill
    David "And One" West

  31. #49

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Did you watch the Clippers game when Hill shut Darren down. Look I get the dollars and cents argument. But Darren did not play well in this system. How many more times does Roy and West have to say that they are a better defensive team when the point guard can fight through the pick. Darren and DJ can't. There is a reason why they cost 6 million less. They might play the passing lanes and get you 4 points on fast breaks. But then they get torched and break down their teammates assignments and cost the team 20+ points.
    Yet against Orlando in our playoff series while Hill was getting abused by Nelson, Collison had to come in and defended Nelson full court. Then against Miami, Collison was our best player and unlike Hill, was actually capable of defending Chalmers and Cole. Hill will have a good defensive outing, no doubt. But then he'll follow it up by giving up 25+ pts to his man the next game while being limited offensively to a spot up shooter. Yes, Hill outplayed Collison that game. But just because Paul George outplays LeBron in a game, doesn't make him better or equal to him. The Pacers would be in the exact same position they are currently in with Collison as their point guard. Cry foul all you want but I said the exact same garbage with Granger years ago, and guess what, we were actually BETTER without him. Very few guys in this league are irreplaceable.

  32. #50

    Default Re: ESPN Insider: Do Pacers have best shot at Lowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Sure. But stats aren't a good way to evaluate our starters; each player has fewer points than they'd have other places because there are so many scorers to go around.

    You think Roy can't score more? West?
    You are exactly right, and I hate using stats as an argument. I used them strictly as a means to illustrate that Collison isn't some bum when he's been allowed to play. He actually shoots at high %s, plays solid defense, defends the full length of the court, and is a willing passer.

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