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Thread: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Tired or not this team does not look capable of winning a title. Title level teams learn from their mistakes. How many of our losses could have been avoided by not sleepwalking through the first half. And we still arent doing it. It takes less energy to stay in a game than to come back in one.

    We continue to whine to the officials not realizing we arent the Heat. Thus its counter productive. And we continue to run plays for the open man which is normally fine. But when that person is 6 for 20 its time to stop especially during an attempted comeback.
    Because ****, if there's any team that has shown it doesn't learn from its mistakes, it's the team with the best record in the league.
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  3. #52

    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Because ****, if there's any team that has shown it doesn't learn from its mistakes, it's the team with the best record in the league.
    That is a logical Fallacy. If the Thunder and Heat were as healthy as we have been they would both have better records. Weve had a cake schedule and only have the record by one game.

    People keep saying we have the best record. But that doesnt mean crap in the playoffs if guys dont show up to play. Or if the team fails to make adjustments.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    That is a logical Fallacy. If the Thunder and Heat were as healthy as we have been they would both have better records. Weve had a cake schedule and only have the record by one game.

    People keep saying we have the best record. But that doesnt mean crap in the playoffs if guys dont show up to play. Or if the team fails to make adjustments.

    We are virtually guaranteed a spot in the Conference Finals unless something catastrophically awful happens to one of our key players. We know we can play against Miami in a series. I don't see what we have to worry about just because we lost a couple of games out west after playing some great ball before that. Like I said earlier this week, even our crappy 08-09 team managed to beat the four best teams in the NBA that season: Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, and the Lakers. In the NBA, you just have to accept the fact that elite teams sometimes lose to inferior opponents. Every team in the league is filled with world class talent.

    After this game in LA on Tuesday, 7 of our next 9 games are at home. We should roll off a ton of wins in that stretch. If we look like crap during that favorable stretch, then I will be the first guy to express some concern. But I think that this team has earned the benefit of the doubt by now that they are going to slaughter teams at home. We'll see.

    If OKC was healthy, then yeah they probably would have a better record than us. They have 2 of the 5 best players in the NBA. There is no shame in admitting that a completely healthy OKC team with Westbrook is probably just a better team than the Pacers. As for the Heat, well they may never be completely healthy again, primarily because Wade's days of being D-Wade appear to be very numbered. Getting to the Finals four straight years is something that hasn't been done since the Celtics in the 80's, so there is a reason that the Heat are on fumes.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    That is a logical Fallacy. If the Thunder and Heat were as healthy as we have been they would both have better records. Weve had a cake schedule and only have the record by one game.

    People keep saying we have the best record. But that doesnt mean crap in the playoffs if guys dont show up to play. Or if the team fails to make adjustments.
    We're 5-5 on the second night of back to backs. We are 29-4 the rest of the time. Calm down. I know it's been a rough road trip, but every team has rough stretches.

    I'd also like to point out that while we have had an easy schedule, it's been one of the most difficult in the east. The Heat have had the easiest schedule in the entire league. http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS/order/false
    Last edited by aamcguy; 01-26-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    We are virtually guaranteed a spot in the Conference Finals unless something catastrophically awful happens to one of our key players. We know we can play against Miami in a series. I don't see what we have to worry about just because we lost a couple of games out west after playing some great ball before that. Like I said earlier this week, even our crappy 08-09 team managed to beat the four best teams in the NBA that season: Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, and the Lakers. In the NBA, you just have to accept the fact that elite teams sometimes lose to inferior opponents. Every team in the league is filled with world class talent.

    After this game in LA on Tuesday, 7 of our next 9 games are at home. We should roll off a ton of wins in that stretch. If we look like crap during that favorable stretch, then I will be the first guy to express some concern. But I think that this team has earned the benefit of the doubt by now that they are going to slaughter teams at home. We'll see.

    If OKC was healthy, then yeah they probably would have a better record than us. They have 2 of the 5 best players in the NBA. There is no shame in admitting that a completely healthy OKC team with Westbrook is probably just a better team than the Pacers. As for the Heat, well they may never be completely healthy again, primarily because Wade's days of being D-Wade appear to be very numbered. Getting to the Finals four straight years is something that hasn't been done since the Celtics in the 80's, so there is a reason that the Heat are on fumes.
    We may be guaranteed a spot in the conference finals. But this team needs HCA advantage the way they have played. And that is not all but assured. We are what 3 games back of the Heat with 2 more games against them. Thats nothing.

    These slow starts are costing us games that could be very important when its all said and done.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    We're 5-5 on the second night of back to backs. We are 29-4 the rest of the time. Calm down. I know it's been a rough road trip, but every team has rough stretches.
    Why tell me to calm down. Its my honest assessment I dont see it anymore. I look at this team and i dont see a champion.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    We may be guaranteed a spot in the conference finals. But this team needs HCA advantage the way they have played. And that is not all but assured. We are what 3 games back of the Heat with 2 more games against them. Thats nothing.

    These slow starts are costing us games that could be very important when its all said and done.

    I agree, it would be crushing to lose the 1 seed after controlling all season. But I'm just going to wait and see how we play during the 9 games after the game in LA, 7 of which are at home. I'm confident that we will get back on track. Every team has some rough games throughout the season, even the best ones.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I agree, it would be crushing to lose the 1 seed after controlling all season. But I'm just going to wait and see how we play during the 9 games after the game in LA, 7 of which are at home. I'm confident that we will get back on track. Every team has some rough games throughout the season, even the best ones.
    Agreed but no effort to correct the problems all year is a huge concern to me. And it makes me question if they even realize they are problems.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Having an unfortunate up close look at the last 3 games I think the biggest issue is that the way the team is defending the high PnR leaves them vulnerable to pull up shooters going over the top of the pick. And when they don't pull up they go with crazy floaters that I consider a normally tough shot.

    And really Denver didn't beat the Pacers with guard shooting as it was Chandler who was their dangerous shooter. Denver beat a team that hit the front of the rim all night and was low on energy from everyone not named Lance (the biggest reason to love that nitrous oxide player).


    Still I couldn't help but be freaked out at the ease in which the team fell into the hold in the 2nd quarter all 3 games. Guys ran out on transition defense (when they could keep up, ie, West chasing Faried) and got in people's grills, so it wasn't honestly a lack of effort. The execution just wasn't there. They got burned on rebounds or controlling loose balls after good defensive stands and often were just not in synch.

    Luis and Roy and West shot poorly much of the time and that hurt a ton, especially against these 3 teams.


    But specially in the Denver game it was more about the failure to get over the top and make buckets once they got the lead down to 5-6. In BILF or maybe with rest they convert the next 3-4 possessions, take the lead and ease into the win. Here they had a couple of poor possessions, Denver went the other way and the close game was gone.

    It really doesn't take much to swing things and none of these games was 48 minutes of junk despite what the score suggested.


    I didn't think any of the games featured terrible calls, just more the style that was allowed. Crawford was all over the place but was mostly just being obnoxious. Woody and his crew last night were a bit tough on Lance's handles and the Pacers working the post, but I couldn't really complain about calls like Roy's offensive elbow.

    To me those were more like calls that could fairly go either way and probably represent the benefit of home court where 50/50 calls lean a bit toward the home team. And maybe that's the main difference, a few home calls and a bit better shooting at home that kill the other team's offensive momentum (like supplementing scoring with quick transition buckets) and bump the Pacers advantage by 10-15 points.



    Finally, when you look at the 3rd the Pacers made their standard run, got the game close, and maybe just ran out of gas like most of us expected before they even left Indy. Can't get too worried about an expected outcome, just frustrating because they could have won that game and salvaged the trip a bit. And the trip only looks bad due to the size of leads given the quality of the opponents.




    Just get me the hell back to Indy so I can enjoy a home crowd for a change. Enough listening to our boys being ripped while down 15. That got old real fast.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Will the real Roy Hibbert please stand up.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I think you know Larry Bird isnt' stupid enough to do this or really any trades before the deadline.
    He has to know Danny is not producing though. Danny is not being aggressive enough. He needs to be moved for someone else. There are options. Like I said, trading him for Stuckey. Both are expiring's. Stuckey backs up Lance, Copeland slides in to back up PG.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Last night sucked, but I think many of us kind of expected it. The reasons have already been stated; back to back, both on the road, high altitude, Shaw knew how to coach against us, and quite frankly our focus is just questionable right now as well.

    This team has proven over and over that it can look like garbage sometimes, yet give them some rest and refocus, and they turn back into titans. I'm not remotely worried about it.

    As to what this means about our playoff chances? It doesn't change anything to me, short of giving up a half game on our lead for 1st place. We're still going to win about 65 games.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    I'll start to care about losses when we either have lost 3 in a row or have lost to Miami.
    It took a miracle for us not to have just lost 3 straight.

    By itself, this game isn't much cause for concern, but taken into context of the last three games and up-tempo West teams in general it's a bit worrisome. I'm actually at the point where I'm a bit more concerned about OKC and similar teams than I am Miami.
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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    I hate to say it, but against these up-tempo teams we may want to consider going small. Roy and Ian just aren't very effective against these teams.
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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    It would also be nice if every West team we face didn't shoot lights out against us.
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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I think we have more than enough offense in both units to win games. The problem tonight, as much as anything, was that our perimeter players would suck in to better positions for help defense, then got caught ball watching rather than recovering back to the proximity of their men. Their man would receive the ball and either put up the three, or drive as our guys finally attempted to recover. When they drove, our centers ended up picking up fouls.

    Denver executed their game plan using the quickness of their perimeter players. As in other recent games we seem to have problems with teams that load up quick perimeter players on us. The problem is not Hill alone. Lance and Paul have been failing miserably in their defense as well.
    Paul and Lance got smoked so many times the last few games it's not funny. Blame on Hill makes no sense. Green and Dragic got plenty of "Paul to cool them off" time and kept scoring, then the same thing happened in Sacto where Paul got assigned to cool down Thornton, and in Denver Hill had nothing to do with wing Chandler going 4-8 from 3.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Will the real Roy Hibbert please stand up.
    'Forgot maybe iffy defensive fouls that he might not get called in Indy, what is with the return to NOV 2012 Roy offense? He just can't find his rhythm lately and if they had to lean on his offense it would get ugly quickly.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    [QUOTE=Grimp;1776955]

    West Coast Ref crews are not used to seeing defense /QUOTE]


    I didn't realize that the NBA had crews of refs that ref'd west coast games and crews who ref'd east coast games. Not sure, but I believe you are mistaken.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    That is a logical Fallacy. If the Thunder and Heat were as healthy as we have been they would both have better records. Weve had a cake schedule and only have the record by one game.

    People keep saying we have the best record. But that doesnt mean crap in the playoffs if guys dont show up to play. Or if the team fails to make adjustments.
    If Granger was 100% healthy, we'd probably have 5 losses. He's not remotely close to the same player. The fact is, we have a weakness guarding small, quick guards who can penetrate and shoot the midrange jumper. But teams competing for a championship will not use that method to defeat us. Instead, they are trying to get bigger. Also, Phoenix and Sacramento will not be in the finals. We will only need to worry about 1 team in the west and they will try to beat us another way.
    LeWade are going down.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    We're 5-5 on the second night of back to backs. We are 29-4 the rest of the time. Calm down. I know it's been a rough road trip, but every team has rough stretches.

    I'd also like to point out that while we have had an easy schedule, it's been one of the most difficult in the east. The Heat have had the easiest schedule in the entire league. http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS/order/false
    The bad thing about back-to-backs: We are not particularly good at back end games.

    The good thing about back-to-backs: They do not exist in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It took a miracle for us not to have just lost 3 straight.

    By itself, this game isn't much cause for concern, but taken into context of the last three games and up-tempo West teams in general it's a bit worrisome. I'm actually at the point where I'm a bit more concerned about OKC and similar teams than I am Miami.
    You most certainly should be more concerned about OKC. We have built this team to beat Miami. We may or may not accomplish that, but we've got them very concerned and for good reason.
    LeWade are going down.

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    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    We may be guaranteed a spot in the conference finals. But this team needs HCA advantage the way they have played. And that is not all but assured. We are what 3 games back of the Heat with 2 more games against them. Thats nothing.

    These slow starts are costing us games that could be very important when its all said and done.
    I don't think our or the Heat's chances are good in regards to beating a healthy OKC.....
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  35. #73

    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    'Forgot maybe iffy defensive fouls that he might not get called in Indy, what is with the return to NOV 2012 Roy offense? He just can't find his rhythm lately and if they had to lean on his offense it would get ugly quickly.

    We simply don't go to Roy enough. Roy is still Roy 2012. We just don't go to him enough. We always post West more.

  36. #74

    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    One loss on the 2nd night of a back to back is not the end of the world.

    Granted BUT how many of the Pacers losses have been the 2nd game of BTB?

  37. #75

    Default Re: Nuggets/Pacers Postgame

    [QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1777057]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    West Coast Ref crews are not used to seeing defense /QUOTE]


    I didn't realize that the NBA had crews of refs that ref'd west coast games and crews who ref'd east coast games. Not sure, but I believe you are mistaken.

    Not always. But it happens very often in the NBA that ref crews who do teams home games? Usually do those games more than once a season. For example, the ref crew we get in Indy? We will get them more than once in a season. As do most teams. That keeps from having to fly too many refs all over the place. Also for example, if there's a ref crew that does Bulls games often, they'll alternate them between Bulls, Pacers, and Bucks home games. Just like the refs who do Laker home games often, will also show up at Clipper, and Warrior home games sometimes too. It's easier for the league to do it that way. Now in the playoffs, it's different....because teams are not going all over the place. They're either home, or traveling to 1 particular city at least 3 times in one series. So it's not zooming around the country every day.


    Also in some cases refs can be part of the team's community, if they come from the same city originally or live there. In the case of Denver...not saying they didn't play a good game, but when we're playing track meet teams like Denver, or Sac, or PHX....we're just not gonna get calls. And they're gonna foul us and get away with it. Because the refs who do Nugget home games often....not always but often, don't see our style of play all but once a year. When they're reffing games that result in 115+ scores 95% of the season.

    Wilson Chandler for example got 3 and 1's against PG in the 3rd quarter. You honestly believe that's possible? One? Ok, but he got two in the same spot, and then another going to the basket. Seems the refs just kind of packed it in, and maybe didn't want to officiate an overtime game. I still say that Indiana needs more offense off our bench. At the end of one quarter, in a b2b game. Where we won in OT in Sac? We trailed by just 4 points. When our bench came in, that's when Denver built their huge lead. Then we scored 40 pts in the 3rd. But again, our bench came in and we couldn't get any closer. Scola and Watson are fine. They just are not facilitators. They never were. So we need to put Copeland in to back up PG, and back up center and back up 2 guard for Lance, needs to be dealt with via a trade.

    Lance I think in games like this? Despite his motor....could have used rest. That's why we need a legit back up 2 guard at 6'6 or 6'7 who can create and score. So Lance can rest for the 3rd quarter, and come in for the last quarter and give us a burst. Trading Danny is the only way to go. He had a good comeback, and it worked for awhile, but he is not the offensively aggressive or efficient player we need right now. Also, his flaws from years ago are even more visible now. He can't create his own shot off the dribble.

    His spot up shooting isn't what we need off the bench. We need someone who can get their own shot, facilitates, and wants to score. And Ian has got to go, Larry couldn't get Robin Lopez in the off season. So I think before the deadline he'll try for someone else. But he knows Ian has to go. Bynum isn't an option anymore I don't think.
    Last edited by Grimp; 01-26-2014 at 02:05 PM.

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